e-man

Hey everyone.

I currently own a 1999 GS400, 143k miles. I previously owned a 1998 GS400. Between the 2 cars, I've been driving a GS400 for about the last 6 years. I'm going to be 42 years old in February, and it's about time for a change.

A close friend owns a 2007 LS460, gray on black, nav, 28k miles. I'm not sure what other options the car has. He is tired of driving it in the snow, and is going to trade it in for a truck (probably a Land Rover, although possibly a GX). He is going to start looking this month. He is most likely going to order something, but if there's something on the lot that is exactly what he wants, he wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger.

He has offered to sell me his car for the amount the dealer offers him for it (plus sales tax -- because in Illinois, as in other states, you get a tax credit on the value of your trade, so by buying his car from him, he'd be losing that benefit).

Anyway, I've done some research, and it looks like the trade value for the car is around $38k. I'm not sure what a dealer would offer him, but I assume it would be something less, maybe in the $35k range.

Is there anything I need to watch out for? Were there any glaring problems with the 2007 model being the first year of the new generation? If this question has been posted and answered, I apologize.

Thanks in advance for any help.

e

RGSW

Be sure and drive it, listen for wind noise. In late 2007 models, they put "laminated" glass in the front doors to try and make it quieter. There is also a "cross wind" TSB available. Lots of talk on this forum on what to do if you notice wind noise. My 2008 appears to be fine. At that mileage, I would think it's still under warranty for another year? The 30K inspection is nearly due and will probably run you around $350.

e-man

Hey, thanks. I was reading up a bit on the wind noise issue after starting the thread. Is there a specific manufacturing date I should look for? I have a feeling it's an early 2007 model, but I won't know for sure until I check the door jamb. If it's a late model 2007, and if it does have the laminated glass, does that mean that it doesn't have wind noise? The person I would be buying it from is a great guy, but I don't think he's a car guy, and I doubt he's very observant when it comes to these things. Also, I think most of his 28k miles are suburban miles with only a handful of highway miles. His wife has a GX470, and I'm pretty sure they use that as their family car for road trips and other highway jaunts.

*Batman*

You lucky guy. At that price the LS460 is a bargain, especially since you know it has been well looked after.

If he buys another Lexus, he may get more than KBB on the trade. Especially if it is an LX570.

e-man

I was thinking the same thing. He's leaning towards the Range Rover because he wants to try something different, but you never know.

Another thing occurred to me (and I mentioned this to him). He'll sell me his car at the price the dealer offers him, but isn't that number somewhat arbitrary? I mean, they could tell him that he has to pay sticker for the new car, but they'll offer him a very high value on his trade, or they could give him a huge discount on the new car and give him below market on his trade. From his perspective, all that really matters is the difference between what they're charging him for the new car and what they're giving him for the old one. My friend has done really well for himself, so I'm sure this won't be an issue, but it's just something to think about.

I was thinking of something else, too. Am I going to have to pay double sales tax to get this deal done? I have to pay my friend the sales tax because he's losing out on a sales tax credit on the purchase of his new car, but when I go to register the car with the state, I have to pay sales tax then as well, right? Is there any way around this?

e

*Batman*

I would steer him away from a Range Rover. They are not trouble free and they depreciate like bricks. If he wants something else, he should look at the Mercedes GL550.

Regarding the sales tax, yes you will probably pay twice but you will still be ahead. The only way around that is if you get the dealer he sells the car to, to allow you to pre-purchase the car from them and run the sale over their books. You could give them $500 plus the doc fee for their effort. This way sales tax is only paid once. However, most dealers would say no.

Carmax's no-haggle price for a 2007 LS460 with 28k miles is $53,147. Even if you pay the tax twice, you are ahead by $10k.

snoylekim

Agree. Even with the tax , you're getting a great price for a 460, and one you're mostly familiar with .. Even if the seller is a good friend, get it checked out , and go from there ..

JFNash

I agree with the guys above.

Even if you pay tax twice, you're still getting a v good deal.

So $35K to $38K + ~10% taxes that would be $38.5K - $41.8K is a good price range for a clean and low mileage LS460 IMHO.

You might look for ways to go around the tax thing, but I wouldn't worry about it if it wasn't possible.

Last thing, test drive the car before buying it. Take it for a long drive and check your feelings about it. Pay attention to all the details. If you're not comfortable about something, think twice about getting it so you don't have to worry about it later on.

Wish you the best of luck.

WhitBaby

I think I'd boogie down to your bank, credit union or even library and take a look at their latest NADA book. THIS book, it's orange, is what the dealers really use when dealing. It has trade-in value as well as loan and retail values and adjustments for accys and mileage. (Note: there IS a retail-only version that is available on magazine racks, but it's useless for serious dealing. Get the real, dealers, issue)

Once I was doing some dealing with the actual book in my hand that I'd borrowed from a guy that worked at an auto auction outlet. They said "Well we have our own program for that" I said "I'll just bet you do". They laughed and we used the values in my book.

Copy the page and you're set.

Some dealers have their own software versions, you can bet they favor their end whichever way they're dealing, buying or selling. But if you are adamant, even show them the page you copied, they'll usually reconsider.


Whit

Craig B

You can look NADA up online as well as KBB and edmunds. If you're buying it at trade price, I wouldn't worry about sales tax. Sales tax must be different in MO. He would still get a tax credit with a private sale...

Craig

RGSW

Regards the early or late 2007 and laminated glass. I don't know when they made the conversion. I know I checked my 2008 before I purchased it. If it's laminated glass, the driver's window will state "lamisafe" in the lower right corner of the window. The rear glass sez "temperlite" in the lower left corner, meaning tempered glass. I will defer to J.M. Craney as the expert on "wind noise" and fixes. It's my understanding that you may or may not have excessive "wind noise" depending on the car. No way to tell unless you drive it and listen to it. The LS 430 was a quieter car. Good luck. I also read the comments above on price. Check Kelly Blue Book and see what the values are. My friend just sold a 2005 ES350 witn 10,000 miles on it for $21,000 which was Kelly Blue Book value for an excellent private party sale if I remember correctly.

e-man

Hey everyone. Thanks for all of the helpful replies. I appreciate it.

Regarding the sales tax, if my friend does not trade his car in to the dealer where he's purchasing his new car, he loses the tax credit (at least here in Illinois he does). So, I would have to compensate him for that. Then, when I go to register the car, I'll have to pay sales tax again (granted, most likely at a lower rate) to the Secretary of State.

I'll be sure to check the lower right corner of the driver's side window the next time I see the car. I'd bet it says temperlite, but we'll see. I'll also check the date of manufacture.

I forgot to mention that my friend just put new tires on the car a few months ago. He had thoughts about keeping it, but in the end, decided that it's time for a change.

Lastly, as for wind noise, I will definitely drive it on the highway. He won't have a problem with this.

I'll be sure to post updates as they happen. It could be next week or it could be several weeks. I'm just waiting on his call.

In the meantime, feel free to post up any additional advice. I could definitely use it.

e

daryll40

You need to do the dealer "in-out". You friend trades it in then you immediately buy it for the same price from the dealer. Most dealers are more than happy to accommodate these deals and do them frequently. They get to schooze you for future service/business and get to sell a new car. You would only pay the sales tax ONCE and your friend still gets the credit against the new car. By the way, I would JUMP on this deal.

*Batman*

Yes this is what I was referring to earlier. In my experience I have never been able to get a franchised dealer to agree to this. The small independent used car dealers will do this no-problem, but every Lexus, BMW and Infiniti dealer that I dealt with said no. However, I have a friend whose Mercedes dealer agreed, another whose Chevy dealer agreed.

If the dealer does not agree to the in-out, I would offer them a doc fee or a margin and a doc fee, as long as it is a lot less than the sales tax. This may tip them over.

e-man

Thanks guys. I was thinking the same thing. If I offer the dealer the standard doc/processing fees (which I assume would be in the $250-$500 range), it would definitely be worth my while to do it, assuming, of course, that they'll agree.

Which, of course, brings us to the million dollar question, would they agree to do it and why? Based on what you've both said, it sounds like some dealers will do it, and others won't, and it's really hit or miss. In terms of their reason for doing it, it seems to me that you've identified the main one, namely, that they would potentially get my service business and potentially my new car business in the future. As for their reasons for not doing it, well, (a) it's a hassle, and (b) they would be losing out on the potential profit from turning the trade-in around and selling it for a quick profit. That being said, I think the best reason for them to do it (assuming my friend will agree) would be that if they don't do it, he'll walk away and buy his new car elsewhere. In a perfect world, that would be how this plays out, but I don't know if he wants to be bothered.

I'll let everyone know how this plays out over the coming weeks. Thanks for your help.

e