venom_v8

In the US. we don't get the S320, our lowest model is the S550 which is known as the S500 in other countries. Even the S550 here is a watered down version of the S600 or S65. The interior of the S600 is full leather which means dash and door panels are all wrapped. The S550 still has plastic and abs. ABC is a hugh difference for suspension also. I think a good comparison for the LS600h would be a modest equip S550. (ABC, AMG bodykit, 19" wheels, P2). This is my honest opinion, the Ls600h was made to compete against the S550. LS600h has more HP but since its heavier it does a slower 0-60 then the S550.
Comparison:
Lexus LS600H Mercedes S550
Msrp 116,xxx 101,2xx
Handling Merc
Gas Milage Lex
Styling eyes of the beholder
Power delivery Merc
Ride Comfort Lex
Int. Storage Lex
Trunk Space Merc (2-1 in space)
Resale value Lex
Fun factor Merc
Price Merc

I believe these 2 are a better comparison, I'm in the Redondo Beach area if anyone with a LS600h would like to compare with my S600. We can grab lunch and talk cars.

Mike_TX

OP, you mentioned the S had a nice feature of engaging the handbrake if you pushed hard on the brake when stopped.

Your LS has a button on the steering wheel marked "Hold". Just press it and every time you stop it will engage the parking brake and keep you from having to keep pressing the brake to keep from rolling.

A better solution IMO.

.
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MythBuster

I have a passion for speed.

On the highway, anything less than 240 km/h is boring for me.

I never felt that the long chasis as being floaty

LS600guy

I actually prefer the Mercedes option. Reason being that you already have your foot on the brake and it is an intuitive and continuing motion. I use the LS steering wheel HOLD only when I remember, and that's 1 time from every 5. (Too many distractions in this LS gadget heaven - man can only retain so much!)

--------------------------
2007 LS600hL, 5 seat
2000 LX470 (traded)

Mercedes SL500 AMG (sun)
Mercedes SLK 230 (wife)
Suzuki Grand Vitara (rain & runaround)

cjf_moraga

Venom_v8 has already said it well - I also own an S600, I test drove the LS600h extensively before making my purchase decision but went for the V12 S600 as the LS600h was/is not in the same league when it comes to performance, handling, and sheer driving pleasure. I even get 19 mpg + on the freeway and can still fit two large suitcases in the trunk. Impressions of the interior are purely subjective - personally I like the simpler minimalist look of the S-Class which in S600 guise is aluminum leather and alcatara throughout with very little plastic visible.

Unfortunately in pretty much all comparisons of this type very few who comment have actually sat in or driven an S600 as they are not common - the S600 is a notable step up in interior ambience from the standard S550/500.

I previously owned an LS, remain well disposed to Lexus, and the LS remains my main alternative to the S-Class, but IMO Lexus missed the target completely with the LS600h which was explicitly marketed as a rival to the S600/760L/W12 A8. (Just read the dealers guide)

Chris

zzzzdoc

Personally, I don't think a power comparison is fair vs a V12. I think the S550 was also the target for the LS600hL.

Your trunk criticism is well taken. Stylistic comparisons are in the eye of the beholder.

LS600guy

Continuing my somewhat misguided comparison of both cars , the trunk in each are equally useless. My wife and I have Samsonite cases. They are reasonably large, and we could only fit one in each trunk.

It's not a pretty sight seeing the rest of your luggage on the back seat.

--------------------------
2007 LS600hL, 5 seat
2000 LX470 (traded)

Mercedes SL500 AMG (sun car, never seen rain)
Mercedes SLK 230 (wife)
Suzuki Grand Vitara (rain & runaround)

cjf_moraga

No, the S600 was the explicit target for the LS600h... (Down to the "600" nomenclature - why not LS 500h?) The power comparison is quite valid. Read the dealers briefing guide to leave you in no doubt.

Chris

cjf_moraga

That comparison is ridiculous. The S-Class has one of the largest trunks in its class. If your expectations are for even more space you need a station wagon or SUV - not a luxury sedan. Due to the battery intrusion, the trunk space in the LS600h is almost non-existent and much smaller than any standard sedan in this class.

Chris

Gojirra99

The 600hL is a 389 hp V8 paired with electric motor to make approx. 438 hp combined, only comparable to hp of the naturally aspirated V12 760Li & the W12 Audi A8, not the twin-turbo boosted V12 of the S600 with 510 hp & 612 lb-ft. torque, huge adavantage in peak hp & torque over the others because of turbo.

Never mind what dealers guide said, they are about marketing, not real knowledge. They would be right that 600hL is comparable to 760Li & A8 W12, but the twin-turbo S600 is in a class by itself in terms of power.

OTOH, one can also say the 600hL is also in a class by itself because of it's fuel economy & emissions rating - clearly superior to any of the other large V12 luxury sedans, whether you care about that or not. It is unique in that sense.

LS600guy

I'll probably buy smaller sets or fitted luggage to solve the problem, rather than changing cars .

But the fact remains that both trunks would only take 1 large Samsonite each, no matter what contortions I did to fit them. Interestingly the second case missed fitting in by 3" on both trunks - showing they are equally useless.

Even more interesting, the Audi A4 5-door I hired at the start of my trip (that's another story) had less usable space, even though it was the equivalent of a station wagon. The sloped back window was the culprit.

--------------------------
2007 LS600hL, 5 seat
2000 LX470 (traded)

Mercedes SL500 AMG (sun)
Mercedes SLK 230 (wife)
Suzuki Grand Vitara (rain & runaround)

Helmar

I've taken one road trip in my LS600hL and will be taking another next month.

Although I'd like the trunk to be larger, our luggage fit just fine in the (admittedly) small trunk.

We always pack light and on road trips get by with a single piece of luggage for both of us. Even when traveling abroad we only use one piece of luggage apiece. Every few days we stop at a laundry center...

HBH

cjf_moraga

The S600h has somewhat improved emissions I agree, (if important to you as the numbers of these cars is insignificant globally) but I would assert that the 600hl does not deserve the praise of being in a total class by itself as far as economy is concerned. Slightly better - yes, but not in any way that justifies a cost of $30-$40K more than an LS460. (Which as has been pointed out would buy an LS460 and a hell of a lot of gas)

As mentioned I can get 19-20 mpg cruising in my S600 in freeway conditions and 21 mpg has been reported. Sure I could constantly rev the engine at 5000 RPM and do 4.3 second 0-60 accelerations stop light to stop light and use a lot more gas, but that style of driving is not a fair comparison with the LS600h. Don't forget that being a big lazy turbocharged V12, the S600 generates most of its day to day power in the (slower thus more fuel efficient) 1500 - 2500 RPM range - there are advantages to a simpler engine operating at optimal efficiency. It is in town driving where fuel efficiency is somewhat less in the S600 v the LS600h, but this then depends on your day to day routing and driving style. So this is a complex equation, but to be be totally unique the LS600h has to show major fuel superiority in all road conditions and routing and it does not.

Chris

Gojirra99

First of all, comparable LS600hL & LS460L (in optons) are not $30K & certainly much less than $40K difference in price, plus the LS600hL has AWD & upgraded interior & exterior features not available for the 460L. So it isn't valid to say you pay that much more just for gas savings & emissions. PLus it's typical for any car brand that the higher you go in class & options, the less value you get.

Go take a look at the 760Li & see whether it is faster than a 750Li, & 760Li does not have AWD & has worse fuel economy, & it's a lot more than the 750Li, but of course it's price tag is not $140K like the S600 either.

As for what it takes to be "unique" & " in a class by itself", that's debatable as well.
For the S600, I said it is in a class by itself just because it's significantly more powerful than the rest because they turbocharged it - it's faster than the 760Li, A8 W12 & the 600hL, but one can say it's not really unique either , & does not deserve the praise "in a class by itself", because turbo-charging is not some cutting edge gee-wiz new technology that has not been done before & has the potential to be improved & refined a lot, unlike hybrid technology.

Lexus, & I'm sure BMW & Audi could have achieved the same improvement in power & speed if they choose to put turbos in their flagship sedan without much R & D.
If hp & speed is not your priority, then the S600 is not that special anymore, not everyone cares about that even in a flagship luxury sedan. For them, they are not worth the premium over the S550, even less so for the S450 & S350 in other markets.

A $350K Rolls Royce Phantom is slower than the S600, but I don't think their owners believe they're in an inferior car just because they can't beat a S600 in a drag race or on a race track. The Rolls provide other things that's desirable to THEM that justify the high price in THEIR MINDS.

The Phantom is in a class by itself because of the $350K price tag & the image, but I don't want one if I have to pay $350K for a car Different strokes for different folks, I would spend them on some other car(s) . . .

MythBuster

Interesting

where is the 49 hp motor gets it's electrical supply from?

I am assuming that it use special battery for supply, but I also have to assume that this additional power is not available all the time because it does not make sense that mechanical power is converted to electrical to be converted back to mechanical? Am I missing something?