Informal Owner Comparison - 2006 750Li vs 2007 LS460(SWB)
07-19-07, 11:30 AM
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Informal Owner Comparison - 2006 750Li vs 2007 LS460(SWB)
I recently gave up my 2006 750Li (via a lease assumption) and took delivery on a new 2007 LS460. For those that care, here are my thoughts comparing the vehicles
Summary of configurations:
BMW 750Li : Monaco Blue with Saddle Brown interior; premium seats, Sirius, Logic 7 audio, heated rear seats, power door/trunk closers, standard wheels, Park Distance Control, rear and side rear sunshades
Lexus LS 460: Nobel Spinel Mica, Champagne interior - the new "69k" pre configured car - Mark Levinson audio, heated rear seats, read sunshade (you know the rest)
Riding Impressions
The 750 is a great vehicle, the best BMW I've ever driven, and as a pure driving experience, the 750 is a better vehicle than the 460 - better handling and road feel.
But I "drive" the car maybe 20% of the time; mostly, while I'm behind the wheel, I prefer the car take a tad more of the experience over; and the 460, while it adds some the BMW feel to the handling (as compared to older versions of the LS I had driven years ago), still offers a smoother, silkier and more cocooned feeling than the 750 - and not in a negative way.
The 750 corners a bit better and feels more nimble. so if you really like to punch, push, and thrash your cars when you drive, the 750 is probably your better choice. But for most, myself included, I imagine the more even-tempered approach of the LS is ultimately the better choice. And for the husbands reading this, the wives tend to find the Lexus drive better than the BMW.
The ECT power mode on the LS seems to add a bit more of the punch and shifting pattern that I admired on the 750, though I only started to use that this morning so more time with it is required to give a fuller opinion.
Both vehicles have ample power and acceleration when you need it, so you won't be wanting with either.
Exterior Design
I'd give the edge to Lexus; while the aggressive nose of the 750 wins, I think Lexis did the Bangle-butt revise better than BMW's revise (especially with the prominent dual exhausts), and the side profiles of both cars reveal a sleeker form factor to the LS
Dashboard Design
I'd give the edge to BMW - the whole center console and center armrest design, with curved wood and leather, and well thought-out control design. It's also rather distinctive from the rest of the BMW line. The LS 460 is fine, but feels a bit more ordinary, and seems to share a bit more other Lexus vehicles. The removal of the mechanical transmission gearshift on the BMW opens up the center armrest space very nicely, not only for the iDrive, but for BMWs first well-designed l/r cupholders
Overall Interior Design
Here I give the nod to Lexus - everything from the numerous task lights to better placement of seat controls and door details - seem better thought-out than the 750.
Navigation System
Lexus wins - much larger, brighter display, much more advance GUI. Lexus also offers the XM Nav traffic integration, which was not available on the 2006 750 (maybe it is now?)
Audio System
I was particularly disappointed with the BMW's Logic 7 system - the Mark Levinson system in the LS is clearly a much better in terms of clarity, power, and bass response. However, (perhaps I've not yet come across it), for such an advanced system I don't seem to see any EQ controls in the AUDIO section - which the Logic 7 did offer. Not a terribly big deal, but it would be nice to have. Also, it was much easier to add (an aftermarket) iPod kit to the LS, (from vaistech.com), which works very well and sounds great. BMW was delayed for more than a year with their kit, and I never went for it, hearing it was still slow and buggy as of a few weeks ago.
The Mark Levinson system also has a built-in HDD, which can rip and store approx. 2000 songs (at 128k sample rate), and they offer a higher quality 256 sample rate as well.
While I'm a Howard Stern fan, and probably would have selected Sirius over XM if given an option, I'm fine with XM - I record Howard on my Mac, transfer to my iPod via iTunes, and I'm done.
Overall, big edge to Lexus.
System Interface (iDrive vs. Touchscreen)
This is a difficult topic, because I actually like the iDrive for many functions - the controller is perfectly placed when your hands rests on the console, and despite all the nonsense claiming it is "difficult", it is actually incredible easy to navigate the menus, sliding the controller in one of eight directions to access a main menu, and pressing down to activate submenus. The system is more cumbersome when it comes to entering variable information however - you need to spin the iDrive to access letter and numbers and press one at a time to build your phrase. The keyboard style layout of the Lexus touch screen is much better for this. In terms of raw menu navigation, Lexus of course offers a much better display system, higher resolution, and many more features. Edge to Lexus
System Functionality
Big edge to BMW here, simply because there is no lockout of any feature while car is in motion. Lexus should be shamed on this.
Telephone Integration
Both offer Bluetooth, but the edge is to BMW here for unfettered access to the system whether parked or in motion, and its better implementation of address book access - with BMW, it will read the address book of any supported phone and display the contacts on the iDrive screen. The info is not downloaded and stored, it's simply a real-time display of the phone's address book. So there's no issue of having to transfer ("send") contacts from your phone, a feature many phones and Blackberry's do not support - a requirement of the Lexus system. The benefit is that when you update your phone, that update appears automatically the next time you're in the car without having to manually initiate a transfer. This is a feature Lexus really needs to add. Edge to BMW
Seats
The BMW seats (in the premium seating package) are more comfortable and have much greater control, including adjustable thigh support - this I miss - as well as the ability to adjust the width of the seat back curvature, and even and "upper back" seat angle control - very nice. The BMW headrests offer additional angled flaps to support your head. Overall, you'll feel more like a good, pocketed fit in the BMW premium seat than the LS. The LS seat is nice, but no match for the 750. BMW drivers seat also has a basic butt massage, though I never found this relaxing in any way.
Climate Control
I find the AC and temperature control better and more accurate with Lexus, and the seat cooling is much more effective on the LS than the 750. Nice edge to Lexus
Quietness
Lexus wins, though I'm awaiting the wind noise window fix to improve that specific issue.
Fit and Finish
Slight edge to Lexus
Other Differences
Lexus offers folding mirrors, better keyless entry locking (easy to press door handle buttons rather than having to press the entire handle very firmly on the 750). Lexus six disc change is DVD, not CD as the BMW, and supports video playback when the car is parked - BMW offers nothing like this. BMW rear sunshade include the side shades - my LS doesn't, only rear - though the sides shades are available as an option. Rear backup camera on Lexus, not on my 06 750.
Especially given the large cost differential, it's clear that the LS is a much better value while being a car of similar capability (depending upon where to choose to emphasize each vehicles' strengths or weaknesses). But the system lockout on navigation and phone would honestly make me pause if I were doing it all over again.
There's much more to experience with the LS, since I've only had it for a few days, but I wanted to post these early impressions.
** ADDITIONAL COMMENTS (added 7/23/07) **
NAV SCREEN COMPARISONS: After using the LS a bit more, I do tend to like the higher up/further back positioning of the BMW nav screen - it's much more inline with your natural eye movement as you look out the window, as opposed to the closer, lower position of the LS screen. The deep recess of the BMW screen also provides much better sunlight protection. Of course, the larger, higher resolution qualities belong to the LS.
DRIVE: I am missing the active suspension of the 750 (and the related benefits of the better seats), especially when cornering. But I may have suspensions issues on my LS which could be contributing to this difference - it's in the shop right now for the wind noise fix, and I'm having them check some suspension concerns (I will post on that separate from this)
Summary of configurations:
BMW 750Li : Monaco Blue with Saddle Brown interior; premium seats, Sirius, Logic 7 audio, heated rear seats, power door/trunk closers, standard wheels, Park Distance Control, rear and side rear sunshades
Lexus LS 460: Nobel Spinel Mica, Champagne interior - the new "69k" pre configured car - Mark Levinson audio, heated rear seats, read sunshade (you know the rest)
Riding Impressions
The 750 is a great vehicle, the best BMW I've ever driven, and as a pure driving experience, the 750 is a better vehicle than the 460 - better handling and road feel.
But I "drive" the car maybe 20% of the time; mostly, while I'm behind the wheel, I prefer the car take a tad more of the experience over; and the 460, while it adds some the BMW feel to the handling (as compared to older versions of the LS I had driven years ago), still offers a smoother, silkier and more cocooned feeling than the 750 - and not in a negative way.
The 750 corners a bit better and feels more nimble. so if you really like to punch, push, and thrash your cars when you drive, the 750 is probably your better choice. But for most, myself included, I imagine the more even-tempered approach of the LS is ultimately the better choice. And for the husbands reading this, the wives tend to find the Lexus drive better than the BMW.
The ECT power mode on the LS seems to add a bit more of the punch and shifting pattern that I admired on the 750, though I only started to use that this morning so more time with it is required to give a fuller opinion.
Both vehicles have ample power and acceleration when you need it, so you won't be wanting with either.
Exterior Design
I'd give the edge to Lexus; while the aggressive nose of the 750 wins, I think Lexis did the Bangle-butt revise better than BMW's revise (especially with the prominent dual exhausts), and the side profiles of both cars reveal a sleeker form factor to the LS
Dashboard Design
I'd give the edge to BMW - the whole center console and center armrest design, with curved wood and leather, and well thought-out control design. It's also rather distinctive from the rest of the BMW line. The LS 460 is fine, but feels a bit more ordinary, and seems to share a bit more other Lexus vehicles. The removal of the mechanical transmission gearshift on the BMW opens up the center armrest space very nicely, not only for the iDrive, but for BMWs first well-designed l/r cupholders
Overall Interior Design
Here I give the nod to Lexus - everything from the numerous task lights to better placement of seat controls and door details - seem better thought-out than the 750.
Navigation System
Lexus wins - much larger, brighter display, much more advance GUI. Lexus also offers the XM Nav traffic integration, which was not available on the 2006 750 (maybe it is now?)
Audio System
I was particularly disappointed with the BMW's Logic 7 system - the Mark Levinson system in the LS is clearly a much better in terms of clarity, power, and bass response. However, (perhaps I've not yet come across it), for such an advanced system I don't seem to see any EQ controls in the AUDIO section - which the Logic 7 did offer. Not a terribly big deal, but it would be nice to have. Also, it was much easier to add (an aftermarket) iPod kit to the LS, (from vaistech.com), which works very well and sounds great. BMW was delayed for more than a year with their kit, and I never went for it, hearing it was still slow and buggy as of a few weeks ago.
The Mark Levinson system also has a built-in HDD, which can rip and store approx. 2000 songs (at 128k sample rate), and they offer a higher quality 256 sample rate as well.
While I'm a Howard Stern fan, and probably would have selected Sirius over XM if given an option, I'm fine with XM - I record Howard on my Mac, transfer to my iPod via iTunes, and I'm done.
Overall, big edge to Lexus.
System Interface (iDrive vs. Touchscreen)
This is a difficult topic, because I actually like the iDrive for many functions - the controller is perfectly placed when your hands rests on the console, and despite all the nonsense claiming it is "difficult", it is actually incredible easy to navigate the menus, sliding the controller in one of eight directions to access a main menu, and pressing down to activate submenus. The system is more cumbersome when it comes to entering variable information however - you need to spin the iDrive to access letter and numbers and press one at a time to build your phrase. The keyboard style layout of the Lexus touch screen is much better for this. In terms of raw menu navigation, Lexus of course offers a much better display system, higher resolution, and many more features. Edge to Lexus
System Functionality
Big edge to BMW here, simply because there is no lockout of any feature while car is in motion. Lexus should be shamed on this.
Telephone Integration
Both offer Bluetooth, but the edge is to BMW here for unfettered access to the system whether parked or in motion, and its better implementation of address book access - with BMW, it will read the address book of any supported phone and display the contacts on the iDrive screen. The info is not downloaded and stored, it's simply a real-time display of the phone's address book. So there's no issue of having to transfer ("send") contacts from your phone, a feature many phones and Blackberry's do not support - a requirement of the Lexus system. The benefit is that when you update your phone, that update appears automatically the next time you're in the car without having to manually initiate a transfer. This is a feature Lexus really needs to add. Edge to BMW
Seats
The BMW seats (in the premium seating package) are more comfortable and have much greater control, including adjustable thigh support - this I miss - as well as the ability to adjust the width of the seat back curvature, and even and "upper back" seat angle control - very nice. The BMW headrests offer additional angled flaps to support your head. Overall, you'll feel more like a good, pocketed fit in the BMW premium seat than the LS. The LS seat is nice, but no match for the 750. BMW drivers seat also has a basic butt massage, though I never found this relaxing in any way.
Climate Control
I find the AC and temperature control better and more accurate with Lexus, and the seat cooling is much more effective on the LS than the 750. Nice edge to Lexus
Quietness
Lexus wins, though I'm awaiting the wind noise window fix to improve that specific issue.
Fit and Finish
Slight edge to Lexus
Other Differences
Lexus offers folding mirrors, better keyless entry locking (easy to press door handle buttons rather than having to press the entire handle very firmly on the 750). Lexus six disc change is DVD, not CD as the BMW, and supports video playback when the car is parked - BMW offers nothing like this. BMW rear sunshade include the side shades - my LS doesn't, only rear - though the sides shades are available as an option. Rear backup camera on Lexus, not on my 06 750.
Especially given the large cost differential, it's clear that the LS is a much better value while being a car of similar capability (depending upon where to choose to emphasize each vehicles' strengths or weaknesses). But the system lockout on navigation and phone would honestly make me pause if I were doing it all over again.
There's much more to experience with the LS, since I've only had it for a few days, but I wanted to post these early impressions.
** ADDITIONAL COMMENTS (added 7/23/07) **
NAV SCREEN COMPARISONS: After using the LS a bit more, I do tend to like the higher up/further back positioning of the BMW nav screen - it's much more inline with your natural eye movement as you look out the window, as opposed to the closer, lower position of the LS screen. The deep recess of the BMW screen also provides much better sunlight protection. Of course, the larger, higher resolution qualities belong to the LS.
DRIVE: I am missing the active suspension of the 750 (and the related benefits of the better seats), especially when cornering. But I may have suspensions issues on my LS which could be contributing to this difference - it's in the shop right now for the wind noise fix, and I'm having them check some suspension concerns (I will post on that separate from this)
Last edited by thrang; 07-24-07 at 03:24 AM.
07-19-07, 11:45 AM
#2
That was a great review. There are EQ controls on the ML, just press the audio button and you'll see highs, mids and lows controls there.
It seems like Lexus wins overall in your opinion as better value.
PS - Wind noise not an issue anymore, the fix exists.
It seems like Lexus wins overall in your opinion as better value.
PS - Wind noise not an issue anymore, the fix exists.
Last edited by Luxofreak; 07-19-07 at 12:29 PM.
07-19-07, 11:51 AM
#4
Wow, nice write up Thrang!
I considered the BMW 750 on my last two car purchases. On the first one I bought the Infiniti Q45 and my current car is nearly identical to yours except for the Pre-Collision System.
My assessment of the BMW was similar to yours in most categories. Certainly some areas are subjective and it all depends what you like. I was never put off by the I Drive system. I figured like anything else, in a couple weeks you'd get used to it.
I was almost tempted to get the L for the touring suspension, but $13K extra just for that (and I didn't want a larger car) was a bit excessive. Plus I don't push my cars, or my motorcycle, like I used to anyway!
Looks like you certainly have no regrets! Good luck with the car.
I considered the BMW 750 on my last two car purchases. On the first one I bought the Infiniti Q45 and my current car is nearly identical to yours except for the Pre-Collision System.
My assessment of the BMW was similar to yours in most categories. Certainly some areas are subjective and it all depends what you like. I was never put off by the I Drive system. I figured like anything else, in a couple weeks you'd get used to it.
I was almost tempted to get the L for the touring suspension, but $13K extra just for that (and I didn't want a larger car) was a bit excessive. Plus I don't push my cars, or my motorcycle, like I used to anyway!
Looks like you certainly have no regrets! Good luck with the car.
07-19-07, 12:19 PM
#5
Nicely stated, I agree with a lot of your assessment. I might have a different opinion on the dashboard design, but I see that overall interior design is better on the LS. But clearly there are areas where each car could learn from the other.
07-19-07, 12:43 PM
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And by EQ, I meant more than tone controls - a multiband equalizer to allow finer adjustment of the audio spectrum
Greg
Last edited by thrang; 07-19-07 at 12:49 PM.
07-19-07, 01:00 PM
#7
Thrang, dead on evaluation on what I have experienced also and GREAT! write up. I miss my 740 but I HATED the new style of the E-65. The Lex looks better and has a better sound system but thats about it, too bad.
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07-19-07, 03:23 PM
#8
Ideal would be a parametric equalizer integrated in the ML but with all this hype over MP3 it's obvious that 95% of people could care less about TRUE sound quality, not at their own fault but just because they just don't know any better.
07-20-07, 12:08 PM
#12
Lexus Test Driver
I agree with everyone else, very nice review! We really appreciate your time investment and insight.
I was originally on the list for the F01 (next gen) BMW but removed it since I have been so satisfied with the LS. You made a great choice!
So what is a lease assumption (is this Swap-A-Lease)? Why did you give the 7 up?
I was originally on the list for the F01 (next gen) BMW but removed it since I have been so satisfied with the LS. You made a great choice!
So what is a lease assumption (is this Swap-A-Lease)? Why did you give the 7 up?
07-20-07, 01:52 PM
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Not too many people who have been fortunate enough to own two great cars like these back to back. Excellent insightful review. I am also curious how easy it was to get out of the BMW lease and if you lost significant dollars in the process.
07-20-07, 04:22 PM
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I agree with everyone else, very nice review! We really appreciate your time investment and insight.
I was originally on the list for the F01 (next gen) BMW but removed it since I have been so satisfied with the LS. You made a great choice!
So what is a lease assumption (is this Swap-A-Lease)? Why did you give the 7 up?
I was originally on the list for the F01 (next gen) BMW but removed it since I have been so satisfied with the LS. You made a great choice!
So what is a lease assumption (is this Swap-A-Lease)? Why did you give the 7 up?
Essentially, lease assumption is just what it says - someone "takes over" your lease. BMW manages the whole process (they must do a lot), including approving the assumer's financial ability and doing most of the documentation. They charge $480 for the process - I paid $150, the assumer paid the balance.
I gave up the 7 for a couple of reasons - one, I had a couple of transmission "incidents" - substantial bangs as though I were hit from behind. This was right around the time we took lease on an X3 for my wife, the transmission of which lurched and heaved like two humping donkeys at low speed. I gave them one fix attempt, they couldn't do anything, and I got them to buy the car back within three weeks. That's when I discovered that BMW doesn't make their own transmissions - two outside firms do, including GM of France - yikes!
Some other reasons - little high on my miles, didn't like the high residual, no iPod, and frequent service visit for lots of little things - no money outlay, but a time drain.