encore888

I am under the impression that more than other luxury brands, the Lexus MSRP base pricing is rather difficult to get because virtually 99% of the cars come with some kind of packaging, thus inflating the price. You see this not only in the showroom, but in the reviews. Lexus execs/marketers do not pat themselves on the back for cut-rate pricing IMO, they actually simply put out an MSRP which undercuts the competition, but when you walk into the dealership the vehicles there are higher than what the base suggests. IMO the "New Values" argument holds some water, but at the same time the LS increase in price is underway.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

if that's actually how you think we (moderators) do things here on clublexus, then i can only say you have no clue how this website is run. abuse of moderator power is not to be tolerated here, and so far everything has been discussions between members, to me the most i would do is ignore your posts, but i am not going to use my moderator power, at least not until there are personal attacks involved

now back to your post. please don't twist i was trying to say and what i didn't intend to discuss. you brought up the statement that "the ls460l is 10k more than ls460" in your earlier post. excuse me, but which part of it isn't wrong to begin with? let me remind you that not only me, but several other members here corrected you about that statement as well.

what i was trying to say in the first paragraph of my post, i was trying to imply the exact same point. if you want to compare the "real" difference between swb and lwb, get two cars here with completely SAME options, then look at the msrp and you get yourself the REAL difference. but before you, or anyone else, do that, just by looking at what lexus call "base" prices, to me that's nothing more than a balant statement with no ground and reference.

the 2nd paragraph of my post was mainly a reality check. i was trying to tell people that although lexus has a base price for each model, people shouldn't focus on that price too much since most of the ls460 and ls460l that come to the US won't have that sticker on the window. that's why i refer to the other thread which contains more factual information on prices of ls460 and ls460l that the west coast is receiving.

now how you got the slightest impression about me implying that as the "base" price or "comparing with competitors" in pricing, that's totally beyond me. you must be seeing something that i don't.

and if you go back and search all my old posts, i always say it loud and clear that in order to compare prices between lexus and competitors, get the cars equipped in comparable options, and that's a good and fair way to see the difference. not by whatever "base" or "loaded" prices, which are almost meaningless to me for all i care.

and if you want to talk about branding and stuff, please keep it to yourself since i am not interested in doing that here, and definitely not with any of the prices quoted here, since i don't even see a good correlation. the only thing i believe is the outcome, i am not putting my money anywhere yet, but for sure i (and so do a lot of people, inside or outside of clublexus) see the success of lexus

Nextourer

That is true though. The base price is just to look good on paper. In Canada, the IS250 starts at $36,400 (which is BELOW a Camry XLE V6 with no nav). However, add premium leather, moonroof ($1,300), power heated/ventilated front seats, wood and 17" alloys and it shoots up to $42,700... add $1,600 for the automatic.

The same goes for the 07 RX350 at $51,550. The Luxury package consists of just the power moonroof and the prices shoots up to $54,500. A moonroof does not cost $3,000.

mkaresh

Now when will full pricing information be released, for packages as well as base price?

mkaresh

I'm noticing this tactic on more and more cars, of having a low base price then either requiring a higher level trim line or an expensive package to get any options. Check out the VW Passat, Eos, etc.

As far as Canadian pricing goes, prices were not reduced as the Canadian dollar appreciated against the U.S. dollar. A few years ago cars were much cheaper in Canada. Now it's the other way around. Supposedly it all evens out in the long run.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Honestly I think Lexus is WORSE at this tactic than any brand I've seen because they NEVER have models on the lot that are 'base' ones.

They all have leather, moonroof, and the vast majority have some kind of premium package or other upgrades.

encore888

^^^
That's exactly what I have seen. Basically, Lexus has this lower-than-competitors (Euro) MSRP to bring in the customers, but once they get into the showroom they realize that the 'base' MSRP doesn't exist...unless you are willing to wait months and months for the 'base' vehicle to hopefully appear.

It's just like the 1989 LS 400, which came with 'cloth' seats 'standard' and the leather trim was part of a $400 'premium package.' 99.9% of all LS' were leather-equipped, I have only seen 1 cloth-seated LS ever. Now all the LS' feature leather...and other 'options' that are for all intents and purposes standard.

Car Nut

I understand that it is difficult to get a base LS460 or any popular car for that matter. May be people want something extra in their cars and the dealers will get only those with the popular options.

Certainly at the launch of a vehicle like the LS460 the dealers will like to have cars with the more desireable options in their show rooms. Many of the initial customers I am told are already Lexus owners and they would like to upgrade to an option package they didn't have in their existing car or because they can afford to pay for it.

I am that sure bare bones LS460 will appear in the showrooms eventually but I can't imagine them being sold in high numbers. I am open to correction here though.

It is human nature to aspire after better things in life and automobile purchase is one of them at the top end of the list. My current LS does not have the ML sound system so I ordered my new car with it. As I like music, I can justify this. But then I also wanted the automatic trunk open/close feature - because I thought it was cool. May be it is vanity..

Then I think to myself, when was the last time I orderd a computer through DELL and bought the basic computer they offered. Never. I have always added memory upgrades, bigger hard drive, better sound card etc., even though the basic package will be perfectly adequate for my needs.

May be many people find someway of justifyling the additional money they spend on cars and other things because they feel they deserve that little extra.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Hey Car Nut, if you can afford all the goodies, go for it!

Stevekil

I wasnt implying that its CL or your policy, just suggesting that you had the instrument to do so wrt to that particular post. Sites like edmunds.com do have such biased policies where the moderators themselves are europhiles and hardened japano-phobes for some reason. I agree with you, since I do not run CL, I don't have much of a clue... Thanks.

My agenda is not to twist what you are saying, but if it came across like that, its unfortunate. I did clearly question the 10,000$ difference and several members confronted this with "options" argument, and I would like to add here that if that is the case, and there are not going to be many base SWB versions, then why play this game? Just to increase the showroom traffic? Do such tactics really translate into higher sales? I do not know an answer to this but Lexus probably believes in this "tactic".

I never questioned sales success of Lexus, in fact I always acknowledged it, but since brand is integral part of marketing and sales process, I consider it fit to be a part of this discussion.

I am not sure how this will pan out in europe. Americans are more inclined towards deals and this word is more prevalent in US than in europe.

In europe people are still looking for good value for money, but not in a way it happens in US. Especially in high-end premium segment.

So will LS be marketed as a S-class fighter with E550 pricing? Will this strategy be fruitful in europe? Will it succeed in status conscious Asian countries? Sales wise, may be to some extent.

But then Lexus will create a permanent fixture for itself as an alternative, not as a competitor.

There are may other things to consider too, such as future competition from korea and china and may be even India down the road in next 5,15 and 25 yrs repectively.

Koreans may launch a luxury line in next 5 years, then there is the possibility of a resurgent infiniti Q.

At the end, Rominl, your points do strike a chord with buyers and lexus lovers and are in perfect agreement with vast majority here, whereas my concept does not, and creates friction with fans who like Lexus strategy and believe that lexus has great marketing skills and is on the right course.

LexFather

Lexus will not price cars to be expensive just because. Leave that to BMW, Porsche and other brands who charge for the name. That is not the Lexus philosophy.
THE LEXUS COVENANT

Lexus will enter the most competitive,
prestigious automobile race in the world.
Over 50 years of Toyota automotive experience
has culminated in the creation of Lexus cars.
They will be the finest cars ever built.

Lexus will win the race because
Lexus will do it right from the start.
Lexus will have the finest
dealer network in the industry.

Lexus will treat each customer
as we would a guest in our home.

If you think you can't, you won't...
If you think you can, you will!
We can, we will.

To treat a customer like a guest in your own home, would you charge them to have a glass of coca cola? No.

Also you just cannot price your car expensively and think people will buy it. The Acura RL/Acura NSX/VW Phaeton/VW W-8 Passat/Inifniti Q45 and even the Audi A8 do not do well or have been discontinued in America because the BRAND was not percieved to be worth the price.

Lexus has moved up and up in price. The orginal LS started at 35k. 17 years later, it starts at 60k. It will reach 100k loaded in 600L h form.

Lexus knew it was coming, and that is why they told dealers to invest over $800 million dollars in their dealerships the last 4 years. B/C they will be moving more and more upmarket and the previous dealerships were not up to par. This shows they see the "big" picture. They could easily have launched this LS in old dealerships. It would have taken away from the total experience.

The Germans have the LUXURY of prestige and being the "status quo" to charge higher prices. They also have expensive unions to pay for. It doesn't matter, people will buy them for the badge. Lexus has slowly gotten this respect, people trust the brand and will pay more for it than its Japanese counterparts.

Lexus could cost MORE than the Germans and people would STILL SAY "oh it has no soul" or "its Japanese, its not real luxury" or "its a fancy Camry".

I feel what Lexus is doing, is the right method. Slow growth and build the BRAND, not build a CAR. Big difference.

Stevekil

Your "status quo" statement makes sense. Alright, lets leave Porsche and BMW in the expensive category. Lexus philosophy is different, so we must accept it, and celebrate with what we have.

I am looking forward to driving the new LS.

encore888

I would like to point out that this is US pricing which will be very, very different from pricing anywhere else on Earth. I am certain that the Euro pricing, just as it is in Canada, will be significantly more $$$ expensive.

For instance in Korea

http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/biz/...8095211910.htm

A situation similar to Taiwan, and elsewhere.

The pricing is to match!

Nextourer

No kidding. However, I have seen 1 base ES350 and quite a few "base" IS250s. Well some have cloth and others have just the leather/moonroof/ power seat option (i.e. base 16" alloys) which is $2,000ish.

Wow, never knew the LS400 had standard cloth. Back then, Toyota really must be pushing the "some people want the luxury without leather." I know that was the case with the 2002 Camry. The XLEs had standard cloth and all the luxuries like moonroof, auto a/c, rear sunshade etc.

Yeah, I do remember the time when our cars were cheaper but Idon't think the difference was this great, was it? I mean the new LS has a $20k difference!

Gojirra99

I think Lexus does not have the price advantage in Europe as in USA, but in Canada, the price advantage of Lexus vs. the Euro luxury brands is not too much different from USA. You should look up how much a S550 cost in Canada . . .