SW17LS

You can't go along hoping something happens that may never happen. You should assume that the nebula car is gone, and not psd up a good car you would otherwise like.

I wouldn't worry about the suspension repair as long as it drives okay.

FatherTo1

I hear what you're saying, Steve. I suppose I haven't "gotten over" the one that got away yet. Once the seller picks up that Tesla, they'll be a 3-car household with only two licensed drivers. I suppose they could elect to get rid of the Prius before they put the LS back on the market. In either case, you're right not to waste time trying to figure out what others will do. Can only make our decision based on the available information and facts. I think I need a break from the search for a few days and will see if the Fire Agate is still available at the Lexus dealership when I'm free on Saturday.

sktn77a

iTrader: (2)

"PATIENCE, GRASSHOPPER!" Wait until the car you really want comes along. And it will! Don't settle - "buy in haste, repent at leisure"! I started looking in October - I looked at several nice cars but none really grabbed me. After 4 months, the right car came along and I jumped on it.

SW17LS

The other option is...you could offer the guy his payoff for that car is that's the one you really want. It's priced right in between the two cars you're considering here...or you could offer to split the difference with him or something...

FatherTo1

Splitting the difference is not entirely unreasonable...but I can't bring myself to offer even a $1 more. I sure do like that Nebula Gray example, and it obviously still has a hold on me, but on principle I won't contact the seller. We agreed on $38,500 for the car. It was he that lowered his asking price $750 first, then another $250 at my request after the PPI. Whatever terms he had to fulfill on his loan is an entirely separate matter and does not involve me. I appreciate you helping me consider options, Steve, but I just can't do that.

You were right the first time, Steve. I need to wipe the Nebula Gray from memory and move on. She's gone and not coming back.

EDIT: There is a lot that I like about that Fire Agate Pearl at Valley Lexus. Same options as the Nebula Gray. Light interior is also nice. Has 15K less miles than Nebula Gray and comes with 2yr/unlimited miles CPO warranty, plus 2yr/20K service. I just have to see how she drives and how the exterior color looks in person. At a dealership price of $43K, I still see wiggle room to negotiate lower and maybe very close to the Nebula Gray price of $38,500. We will see. I am not allowing myself to get too excited about it just yet. A few unknowns at this point.

SW17LS

There's a saying that I always use in situations like this, you can be right, or you can have what you want. If you really want the nebula car, I would call the guy and see what you can work out, if anything. The only person you're hurting by not doing that is yourself. He was willing to sell the car for a cheap price when he had to sell it to get his Tesla, once he was able to get the Tesla without selling it, he didn't want to take the loss. Makes sense, I would keep it as a third car vs losing $6k on it.

If if you're willing to pay $43k for this car and you honestly prefer the Nebula one, IMHO you owe it to yourself to contact the guy and see if he would part with it for that price. Don't think of it as having anything to do with the guys loan, you're not doing him any favors you're doing it for yourself. If he won't do it he won't do it, but at least you know you tried.

youre not likely to get $5k off of that car on the dealers lot. Do t go into it with unrealistic expectations. If you're going to take a run at it, be prepared to make a reasonable offer the dealer can accept.

FatherTo1

That's true about the seller's rationale. I wouldn't pay $43K for the Fire Agate Pearl though. I always see room to haggle; the Nebula Gray seller was firm on his price but still went down $1,000. I don't think $39.5K is unreasonable for the Fire Agate Pearl, assuming I like everything about the car. Observing my Dad buy new cars over the years, and my own experience negotiating a new car for myself and past girlfriends, I've noticed 10% reduction is not too difficult. Time on lot definitely helps and I don't think demand for the Fire Agate Pearl color is high. The salesperson was pretty keen on getting me to come down ASAP, but I told him Saturday was the best I could do. Maybe it will be gone by then, maybe it won't. I'm not in a rush.

SW17LS

And remember, the first time the seller of the nebula grey car was able to get out of the transaction with you, he did. You had him over the barrel, he had to sell the car. As soon as he didn't, no deal. I wouldn't be surprised if you find that down the line that car is listed again for more money without calling you first.

Remember too that in all the offers you've made to dealerships none have been accepted. New cars and used cars are different, you have no idea what they paid for the car, and $42.9k is already a pretty good price for that car certified from a Lexus dealer. You will always pay more retail than private party, and you'll always pay more for a certified car than a car with no warranty like the Nebula one.

Seeking a "reduction" for "reductions sake" isn't negotiating in good faith. You have to look at what is out there and what a fair price is for that particular car and negotiate it to there. How much is your time and your family's time and aggravation worth? Seeing how frustrated we are here with this process they've got to be really frustrated. A couple thousand dollars here or there will be forgotten in a month.

With this expectation that you're going to need to have 10% off of any car you see listed you're never going to buy a car.

FatherTo1

Well, let's see how things go, Steve. I respect that dealers have higher overhead than a private sale, thus I'm not expecting to buy it at what I negotiated for the Nebula Gray. At the same time, there's more profit in used car sales than new so there's room to work with. The L/Certified price does seem lower than other dealerships but there could be a reason for that. I need to see the car in person. As it stands, based on photos, this car isn't speaking to me at $43K...it has a few perks and that has me mildly curious to learn more.

comotiger

Of course, the longer you wait, prices will keep falling. A 2014 costs at least 5-8K less today than a year ago. You can't use a fixed lower price point to feel good about a price you pay if you had to wait 6-9 months to get there. The trade off for buying today at a higher price is that you and your family get to enjoy the car for several months instead of waiting for the price to fall below your threshold.

SW17LS

It depends. There can be more profit in used car sales, but not always. For instance the cars they've bought from me, they listed them about $2,000 more than they paid me. I don't think that profit is unreasonable. Also bear in mind the dealer is charged about $1,500 against the car to certify it (the cars they bought from me were not certified for that reason I would assume). The dealers overhead is one issue, the other is that they are in business to make a profit, a private seller is not.

The point is, don't assume that the dealership has 10+% in the car to play with. When you get to the dealer you will find the car is already priced higher than that internet sale price.

Why is it still there, and why is it cheaper? Its the color. Grey, silver, white and black sell better.

Right, you can always wait. Wait 20 years and it'll be really cheap. But, you have to sit around all that time passing up good examples left and right driving everybody nuts until the price gets there...and when it gets there...it can always be less.

FatherTo1

Thanks, comotiger/Steve. I hear what you're both saying. Maybe there's not 10% and I can accept that, but there's some room because the color is enough to make some of us think twice. I certainly don't want to wait forever but I can wait until the right opportunity arrives. I'm fortunate to be driving the 430. Incidentally, the past few outings in the 430 have felt particularly smooth. Must be the P7+ hitting its stride. I do plan to see that Fire Agate Pearl this weekend with my Dad. Maybe I'll be more impressed after a test drive.

SW17LS

I'm sure there is room, but if the color is already built into the price...

Its like me pricing a house 10% under other houses because it needs work and you coming along and demanding another 10% because it needs work. Well...we know that...and thats why we priced it so low.

Kennyr44

I've said this before on other threads. I wouldn't buy any car without front and rear collision self braking or blind spot monitoring. Lane departure warning, radar cruise and 360 degrees camera are also a plus too. In other words almost all of the millions of used cars out there are dead to me. I feel strong about these ground breaking safety features. I said this on the 4 Runner forum and almost got my fingers chopped off since even the 2017 4 Runners have none of those safety features. Its all mainstream now and will be mandatory soon. I feel like in 2020 insurance company's will be dinging people hard who don't have automatic collision braking.

aw001

That is your opinion, and i can't understand why others would like to chop off your fingers. Anyways, so much for carmax no haggle price. I am sure others know this, they do come down on price when no one buys. Case in point, check out the 2014 ls 460 at carmax wichita, kansas. They reduced price by 2k i think...