chatapuggy

Been doing enough reading here to know about the control arms, ABS actuator, Air Suspension issues, etc. Been looking for one for quite a while 07-08. Found one yesterday on Ebay but happens to be local in my neighborhood, no dealer drama, real person, 118k, original owner, $17,500obo, no accidents, etc. Going to try and see it in person this afternoon. However, I sent them an initial email regarding the car, in which I addressed the major stuff (control arms, noises, shocks, etc) to which they responded, never had any problems, they have no issues with me bringing my mechanic, etc.

After that email though, I registered on the Lexus owners site and ran the VIN#. Dealer service records have the ABS Actuator replaced early on which is great. But aside from steady oil changes at the dealer it looks bad to me. Early on, I would say around 50-70k there are notes that the client brought the vehicle in for noises and alignment issues in which the notes say the control arms need replacing, customer declined. then from 75k until present (118k) the Air shocks are noted as leaking. control arms are in need of replacement and from 75k the water pump is noted as leaking and in need of replacement. All in which the notes keep stating that the customer declines. Just oil changes were done on a regular basis. For one, I cannot believe that a water pump can make 20k and still be leaking, but nevertheless, I emailed the owner about it and told him I pulled the service history and let him know that this is a problem in these cars and I was concerned and of course my offer was more like 16-16500 based on the outcome of all that repair and what I see when i have a look at the vehicle.

I got nothing back, at first he was quick to respond and have me come up and have a look, but of course once I told him I had history, I get nothing.

Should I even bother at this point to have a look or move on? That is a lot of work, and while I have sourced mechanics that can do the bushing and arms cheaper than OEM, we still got water pump, and those shocks which I don't even see standard replacement for anymore online. Looks like I am never going to find a decent 460L, these control arms and shocks seem to plague this car.

Thanks in advance for any help!

dlbuckls10

Several red flags so you might want to pass on this one.

Wandl

For $17500 I'd keep on going. One would assume the owner had the work done at a non-Lexus dealership, that said I just don't want you to spend $17k then another $2-$4k for additional repairs. At that rate might as well pick up a 2010+ LS for $20k.

chatapuggy

Thank you to both of you. Just the answers I was looking for, that I already sort of knew. I would have to shell out way too much and at that point I would be at 20/21k and I could look at 2010's. Boy these things are really hard to find!

Thanks again!

Doublebase

I'll say this though...I would have tried a different approach with dealing with this guy. I would have done my research - like you did - then I would have looked at the car, knowing what I already knew...then I would have asked him about repairs to the water pump, control arms, etc.

I think people get turned off dealing through email, they want you to look at the car. I've sold a few cars on Craigslist and it's a real pain having to communicate back and forth through email, or have to answer a million questions about the car without them even looking at it.

I liked the fact that the car had regular oil changes, that to me is excellent. As for the other stuff....I would have went and negotiated over those items (if those issues even existed). I think it would be just as bad - if not worse - to buy a car that had all these repairs done through a CPO warranty, or something of that nature, but have no history of oil changes. I see people taking advantage of free warranty repairs, but going 15,000 miles between oil changes because they couldn't be bothered to properly maintain a vehicle. Believe me that does happen - there are people that just don't care - some people only change their oil by accident...like when a friend, tech or family member pulls the dipstick and sees nothing on it. And when they're asked when was the last time they changed their oil they say...oh I don't know, maybe last year...or the year before.

chatapuggy

Doublebase, I hear ya. I got a little excited up front when the vehicle was local and did a VIN search to show original owner and only 2 emission cert records on it. I then emailed to show interest, which they jumped on in 2 separate replies. And I asked them upfront about those high dollar items, specifically the control arms and noises to which I am familiar with. Response was, oh no, no noises, pulling, etc. car is smooth, no control arm issues or shock issues at all. Once I saw the customer/dealer data, I knew pretty much all they cared about was oil changes, which I think is great as some don't want to be bothered with preventive maintenance, they would rather wait until it falls apart. If it were a 93 Camry with a million miles on it and no maintenance for 3k I'm there all the way. But when spending this kind of money on a used car with unknown "true" history, no way. I have had control arm issues on other vehicles to know that you let them go long enough (like I did) and the whole suspension system breaks down which leads to major issues.

Not sure how it is in your parts, but here in CA, its drama on almost every car, accident, salvage, selling for a friend but Im really a dealer out of my house, etc. So I think by this being a "real" no drama car, by seeing it first, I probably would have gotten hung up too much on the original owner thing and overlooked all the wear and tear. But I get it, when you are buying at or around the 100k mil marker, anything is possible no matter how clean the car looks. I think sellers get too hung up on KBB or NADA prices, they see 17500 and find a happy medium in there somewhere and then roll with it, not really willing to negotiate any further, as Lexus holds strong values. I love it when I see a car and the seller says to me "I put all new brakes and it has really good tires, etc" Like I am getting a deal or something or you want the high end of the book price. You had to put those brakes and tires on as it was your car, Im not paying you a premium for that. Premiums to me are wheel/tire combos, sound systems, body kits, etc. But to each his own. I feel that once I let them know that I knew about the history, they had an opportunity to fess up and could have let me know that they went to an independent shop or whatever to get stuff resolved. The fact they disappeared once I called them on it for answers, shows me they would rather let it pan out on Ebay and see what happens and that's cool with me, just figured a local sale would have made it simpler for both parties.

My brother in TX is a used dealer/broker and just found one as well as he has been keeping a eye open for me, Silver/Black interior combo, but decent history, no accidents, picked it up at auction for 16k, says I can have it for what he paid, but it has 130k on it, I am running history on it as we speak, might be the one, we will see but nothing is perfect unless I wanna spend 85k + on something new and that ain't happening anytime soon!

Doublebase

You bring up some great points. There are so many variables to consider when purchasing a used car and when it comes down to it?? You don't really know what you're getting no matter what you do.

I have a friend that would rather buy a well maintained high mileage vehicle over a low mileage vehicle he suspects isn't maintained well. I'm saying he'd rather buy a car with 170,000 miles - off the right owner - than a car with 70,000 off the wrong owner. I don't know if I share the same logic, but I'll give you an expample...he purchased an M5 with 150,000 on it because the owner over maintained the vehicle (the guy actually changed the radiator as preventive maintenance)...synthetic oil changes every 4,000 miles, all fluids regularly changed, etc...all highway miles. He kept that car until 300,000 miles before selling it for something more practical - the car is still running today.

Finding a car that's been well maintained isn't an easy thing...a lot of people just could care less about their cars...they figure they're only going to own them a few years, so who cares? It's crazy.

lextout

maybe he declined the dealers notes and had the services performed else whare due to the horrific quotes from the stealership.

roadfrog

Lextout echoes my thinking. I for one would certainly have declined dealership work and gone elsewhere.

The water pump is a no-brainer. Cheap and easy to fix. I bought an aftermarket one for about 50 bucks on Ebay and comes with a life-time warranty. I installed it myself in about 90 minutes, so an independent shop can do it for cheap. As for CA's, that can also be done for about 1k - 1.5k dollars all in with aftermarket parts. Air suspension components can also be had for about 3-4 hundred dollars apiece. Arnott makes them and are available on Amazon or Ebay. I also agree with Doublebase.....go see the car and deal directly with him armed with the information you have. He may be more inclined to deal in person.

satiger

iTrader: (1)

I refused to buy any car that had been neglected by owner. In my view, this car fits that definition. Neglecting one repair is different from ignoring many other. If that's how the car have been maintained, its going to be a money pit.

OP clearly stated certain repairs were noted multiple times from 75k miles onwards. That means it wasn't fixed even by non Lexus dealership.

2v1g

When my car is fixed or oil changed in toyota dealer, the record will also show up from Lexus dealer.

chatapuggy

I thank you again as you guys are great, keeping me informed and on the sane side of pulling the trigger as I have been after one of these for a while now. And coming from the Tacoma board where everyone's got jokes and put downs and the Avalon board, which is nearly non-existent, its refreshing to get so much support.
Anyway, I did get receive another email and a price reduction seems to be had to 16500 on ebay. Here is the piece from email:

I asked my husband about the items you have mentioned and he says that he will show you the service records of Nov. 2015 and Oct. 2016. Both of them mention the same items, that need attention. His service mechanic had advised him that these are items which do need attention after 100,000 miles, and to keep an eye on them. But the car has been driven by my husband back and forth to his office in Santa Ana for the past year, and there has been no problems whatsoever. The car has been serviced for the past 10 years of ownership by Tustin lexus and all the repairs are also done by the same dealership.
If you wish to replace the above items, it will be your prerogative and the lowest price at present we may consider is $16,500/- . I am here tomorrow and Wednesday but will be gone to visit my son on Tuesday, all day.

I am now tempted as some of you have mentioned, to go and see and will check it out tomorrow if I can get a time. I realize the water pump is no biggie, its those shocks and Arms that worry me, especially if they failed 20k ago, that means everything else in line with the suspension is getting beat down on a daily basis which leads to a money hole. But if 16,500 is lowest they will go, I am not sure. I also have a Toyo mechanic 3 miles away and they would have to be willing to take to him and let him put it on the lift so he can have a look. What are your thoughts on what these things are worth if Original Owner, 118k, body is super clean, no accidents, but requires all the major work?

Doublebase

Well just going off your original post - and the response your received from the owner's wife - I'd have to consider that there is some "selling" going on at the dealership, which is normal. Those control arms probably need replacement, they all do sooner or later, but I think a Lexus dealer is so accustomed to them failing that it almost becomes automatic that everyone's has failed (when they probably haven't). As for the water pump...I find it hard to believe that this guy has been driving around for 20,000 miles with a bad water pump, so that tells you right there that someone told him he needed a water pump when he probably didn't. Again, those things happen...a car comes in at expected mileage where pumps fail...tech "maybe" sees a little pink coolant stain by the pump...boom, needs a new pump.

But let's say you do need to replace all these items, even with aftermarket/independent prices you are still looking at maybe $2,500 in repairs, and that's a lot. Add that to her price of $16,500 and you're talking $19,000 for an 07/08 LS460 with 118,000 miles on it?? Way too much. My 07 has 140,000 and it needs nothing...well maintained...I'd be lucky to get $12,000 for it in my area.

roadfrog

I think this seller is being honest. Everything said makes sense. Water pumps on our vehicles have a "weep hole" that allows coolant to leak out a little as it wears. This provides an advanced notice when it's failing. Mine had been leaking for a long time. The build-up of pink crud at the weep hole was enormous. Who knows how long it had been leaking, but it never failed outright. Again, this is not a deal breaker (but it is a potential deal MAKER for you). Same with the control arms.....I've just been advised that my lower front control arms are in need of replacement, but I'm comfortable that I can replace them myself for a total of about 500 bucks. These two items (and a set of mufflers) are the only issues I've had on my 8 year old LS with 120k miles.

I say go for it....especially at $16.5k