DIY trans fluid drain and refill
09-05-15, 05:06 PM
#1
Driver
Thread Starter
DIY trans fluid drain and refill
How do you drain the trans fluid? In the diagrams, I see a refill plug, a refill hole and a overflow plug; so where does the actual fluid drain from - the overflow plug?
09-05-15, 09:20 PM
#2
Pole Position
There's two bolts on the bottom of the pan, the drain is the one further back on the pan. The other one is the fluid level check drain bolt.
09-06-15, 09:48 PM
#3
Driver
Thread Starter
Just as a follow up, why are there two refill points - refill hole and refill plug?
After reading most of the posts, it seems like it is critical after a refill to check the trans fluid level at the appropriate temperature. I don't' think my OBD II device displays transmission temps and it's not clear to me wheather a special tool is needed to get a temp reading. From some of the instructions in the posts it seems like you can get a light to come on the dash display when the temp is in range to check the fill level, but it is not clear to me if you have to use tool to do that.
09-07-15, 04:58 AM
#4
Pole Position
Thanks for the response!
Just as a follow up, why are there two refill points - refill hole and refill plug?
After reading most of the posts, it seems like it is critical after a refill to check the trans fluid level at the appropriate temperature. I don't' think my OBD II device displays transmission temps and it's not clear to me wheather a special tool is needed to get a temp reading. From some of the instructions in the posts it seems like you can get a light to come on the dash display when the temp is in range to check the fill level, but it is not clear to me if you have to use tool to do that.
Just as a follow up, why are there two refill points - refill hole and refill plug?
After reading most of the posts, it seems like it is critical after a refill to check the trans fluid level at the appropriate temperature. I don't' think my OBD II device displays transmission temps and it's not clear to me wheather a special tool is needed to get a temp reading. From some of the instructions in the posts it seems like you can get a light to come on the dash display when the temp is in range to check the fill level, but it is not clear to me if you have to use tool to do that.
There is a way to do the temp check without a scan tool, but it is pretty tedious - you have to jump two pins in the data link connector with a jumper wire, then go through a bunch of procedures to get it into temp check mode. You can find it online, but it will take some searching.
Personally if I were doing a simple drain and fill I'd just measure exactly what I take out and put the exact amount back in...with maybe a tiny bit more. Then you don't have to worry about the fluid temp check.
09-07-15, 08:49 AM
#5
Lexus Fanatic
These technicalities is why I refuse to do this service myself, despite being a die-hard DIY'er. By the time you go through all this hassle and then not be fully confident that the procedures were followed properly, potentially doing more harm than good to a very expensive component, it's better to leave this to the dealer. When you factor in the cost of buying the appropriate amount of WS fluid, etc, I'd rather pay the 150-200 dollars or so to let the dealer do it properly with Techstream. Since the service is only done every 5 years or 60k miles, it's no big deal IMHO. For those who haven't already done so, I recommend you peruse the comprehensive service procedures in the manual to see what's involved.
09-07-15, 11:02 AM
#6
Pole Position
These technicalities is why I refuse to do this service myself, despite being a die-hard DIY'er. By the time you go through all this hassle and then not be fully confident that the procedures were followed properly, potentially doing more harm than good to a very expensive component, it's better to leave this to the dealer. When you factor in the cost of buying the appropriate amount of WS fluid, etc, I'd rather pay the 150-200 dollars or so to let the dealer do it properly with Techstream. Since the service is only done every 5 years or 60k miles, it's no big deal IMHO. For those who haven't already done so, I recommend you peruse the comprehensive service procedures in the manual to see what's involved.
09-07-15, 03:56 PM
#7
Driver
Thread Starter
Since this is my first drain and refill, your logic of replacing the exact amount of fluid that is drained sounds like a reasonable approach. Others at this site have advised against it, saying there is more to it - it couldn't be that easy.
I called two Lexus dealerships in my area and one says they keep doing drain and refills until the fluid color looks good. This process takes about 12qrts of fluid and costs $350. The other dealership I called twice and once they said they do a drain and refill(4qrts) and charge $129. The second time they told me they do a flush and when I asked more questions about the logic of doing a flush at 115K miles they hung up on me - my wife said it was my dynamic personality - I hate dealerships!
I called two Lexus dealerships in my area and one says they keep doing drain and refills until the fluid color looks good. This process takes about 12qrts of fluid and costs $350. The other dealership I called twice and once they said they do a drain and refill(4qrts) and charge $129. The second time they told me they do a flush and when I asked more questions about the logic of doing a flush at 115K miles they hung up on me - my wife said it was my dynamic personality - I hate dealerships!
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09-07-15, 04:43 PM
#8
Lexus Test Driver
With one drain-and-fill your old (dirty) fluid is reduced by ~37%, and with a second drain-and-fill the old fluid is reduced by ~60%, and a 3rd will reduce it to ~75%, and a 4th will reduce it by ~84%. Three or four drain-and-fills performed within 15k miles will give the transmission 75% to 84% fresh fluid.
The following information will give you the math calculations to determine the percentage of old (dirty) fluid/contaminants remaining in your LS 460's transmission after each successive drain-and-fill.
Lexus LS 460 Transmission Fluid Capacity: 2WD 10.9 quart & AWD 11.3 quart
With each drain-and-fill you will be able to drain approximately ~4 quarts (or ~37%) of the transmission's total fluid capacity of 10.9 quarts (2WD). The transmission's torque converter will retain about 63% of the transmission's total 10.9 quart fluid capacity.
1st drain-and-fill will leave 63% dirty fluid remaining (.63 = 63%)
2nd drain-and-fill will leave 40% dirty fluid remaining (.63 x .63 = 40%)
3rd drain-and-fill will leave 25% dirty fluid remaining (.63 x .63 x .63 = 25%)
4th drain-and-fill will leave 16% dirty fluid remaining (.63 x .63 x .63 x .63 = 16%)
5th drain-and-fill will leave 10% dirty fluid remaining (.63 x .63 x .63 x .63 x .63 = 10%)
See below attachment for an easy-to-use ATF Drain-and-Fill Calculator in Excel form that will give you the same information in detail that I provided above.
Note: To change the 'Total ATM Capacity' (10.9 quarts for a 2WD & 11.3 quarts for AWD) or the 'Amount Replaced' (4 quarts) just click on the 'Enable Editing' in the yellow bar at the top of the Excel page and enter your new data in the appropriate cells (Cells C5 & C6 respectively) and click on a blank cell to see the results.
Hope this helps...
.
The following information will give you the math calculations to determine the percentage of old (dirty) fluid/contaminants remaining in your LS 460's transmission after each successive drain-and-fill.
Lexus LS 460 Transmission Fluid Capacity: 2WD 10.9 quart & AWD 11.3 quart
With each drain-and-fill you will be able to drain approximately ~4 quarts (or ~37%) of the transmission's total fluid capacity of 10.9 quarts (2WD). The transmission's torque converter will retain about 63% of the transmission's total 10.9 quart fluid capacity.
1st drain-and-fill will leave 63% dirty fluid remaining (.63 = 63%)
2nd drain-and-fill will leave 40% dirty fluid remaining (.63 x .63 = 40%)
3rd drain-and-fill will leave 25% dirty fluid remaining (.63 x .63 x .63 = 25%)
4th drain-and-fill will leave 16% dirty fluid remaining (.63 x .63 x .63 x .63 = 16%)
5th drain-and-fill will leave 10% dirty fluid remaining (.63 x .63 x .63 x .63 x .63 = 10%)
See below attachment for an easy-to-use ATF Drain-and-Fill Calculator in Excel form that will give you the same information in detail that I provided above.
Note: To change the 'Total ATM Capacity' (10.9 quarts for a 2WD & 11.3 quarts for AWD) or the 'Amount Replaced' (4 quarts) just click on the 'Enable Editing' in the yellow bar at the top of the Excel page and enter your new data in the appropriate cells (Cells C5 & C6 respectively) and click on a blank cell to see the results.
Hope this helps...
.
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damon (02-28-18)
09-07-15, 06:18 PM
#9
Pole Position
Since this is my first drain and refill, your logic of replacing the exact amount of fluid that is drained sounds like a reasonable approach. Others at this site have advised against it, saying there is more to it - it couldn't be that easy.
I called two Lexus dealerships in my area and one says they keep doing drain and refills until the fluid color looks good. This process takes about 12qrts of fluid and costs $350. The other dealership I called twice and once they said they do a drain and refill(4qrts) and charge $129. The second time they told me they do a flush and when I asked more questions about the logic of doing a flush at 115K miles they hung up on me - my wife said it was my dynamic personality - I hate dealerships!
I called two Lexus dealerships in my area and one says they keep doing drain and refills until the fluid color looks good. This process takes about 12qrts of fluid and costs $350. The other dealership I called twice and once they said they do a drain and refill(4qrts) and charge $129. The second time they told me they do a flush and when I asked more questions about the logic of doing a flush at 115K miles they hung up on me - my wife said it was my dynamic personality - I hate dealerships!
09-07-15, 06:44 PM
#10
Driver
Thread Starter
I agree doublebase!
It looks like you are the only guy on this site to have changed the trans fluid yourself. Thanks for the input!
I think I will first try to put the DLC3 into trans temperature monitoring mode and see if I can master that - the procedure seems strait forward. At the same time I will check the external temp of the trans with a laser heat gun.
Still need to figure out why lexus put two refill holes.
It looks like you are the only guy on this site to have changed the trans fluid yourself. Thanks for the input!
I think I will first try to put the DLC3 into trans temperature monitoring mode and see if I can master that - the procedure seems strait forward. At the same time I will check the external temp of the trans with a laser heat gun.
Still need to figure out why lexus put two refill holes.
09-08-15, 09:37 AM
#11
Lexus Fanatic
Actually I'm kind of shocked that you wouldn't do this service yourself - especially after seeing some of the other stuff you've done (plugs, water pump, radiator, rear end, etc). If we are talking about a drain and refill, all you are dealing with is a way to measure the fluid you take out, and a cheap $7 dollar pump to get the fluid back in. Between the fluid and the pump, it should run somewhere around $30...a savings of around $120-170 dollars. It's just not that hard to do, I thought the spark plugs were ten times harder than this.
Your Vehicle: 2008 Lexus LS 460 V8-4.6L (1UR-FSE)
Click Here
Vehicle » Transmission and Drivetrain » Automatic Transmission/Transaxle » Fluid - A/T » Service and Repair
Service and Repair
AA80E AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION: AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID: ADJUSTMENT
ADJUSTMENT
BEFORE REFILL TRANSMISSION
This transmission requires Toyota Genuine ATF WS transmission fluid.
After servicing the transmission, you must refill the transmission with the correct amount of fluid.
Maintain the vehicle in a horizontal position while adjusting the fluid level.
If the entire transmission, transmission pan, drain plug, valve body and/or torque converter is replaced, proceed to the "FILL TRANSMISSION PAN" procedures.
If the transmission hose, extension housing oil seal and/or radiator is replaced and/or a repair of oil leak is performed, proceed to the "ADJUST FLUID LEVEL" procedures.
FILL TRANSMISSION PAN
(a) Lift the vehicle up while keeping a level state.
(b) Remove the refill plug and overflow plug.
(c) Fill the transmission through the refill hole until fluid begins to trickle out from the overflow tube.
(d) Reinstall the overflow plug.
FILL TRANSMISSION
(a) Fill the transmission with the amount of fluid listed in the table below. (3.2 liters if the pan is drained).
ADJUST FLUID LEVEL
(a) w/o Air Suspension:
Using SST, connect terminals 13 (TC) and 4 (CG) of the DLC3.
SST: 09843-18040
(b) w/ Air Suspension:
Using SST, connect terminals 13 (TC), 11 (OPB) and 4 (CG) of the DLC3.
SST: 09843-18040
(c) Start the engine.
NOTE: Air conditioning switch must be turned off.
(d) Slowly move the shift lever from P to S, then move the shift lever from the 1 to 8. Then return the shift lever to P.
e) Move the shift lever to the D position, and quickly move back and forth between N and D (once per less than 1.5 seconds) for at least 6 seconds.
This will activate the fluid temperature detection mode.
Standard:
Indicator light (D) remains illuminated for 2 seconds and then goes off.
(f) w/o Air Suspension:
Return the shift lever to the P position and disconnect terminals 13 (TC) and 4 (CG).
(g) w/ Air Suspension:
Return the shift lever to the P position and disconnect terminal 13 (TC).
(h) Idle the engine to raise the temperature of the ATF.
(i) When the indicator light (D) turns on, lift the vehicle up immediately.
Indicator light will indicate the ATF temperature:
off - temp too low.
on - proper temp.
blinking - temp too high
NOTE: Perform fluid level inspection while the indicator light turns on.
(j) Remove the overflow plug. At the proper fluid inspection temperature, check the fluid amount.
If the ATF flows from the overflow tube and the ATF flows in a thin stream, the fluid amount is normal.
If the ATF does not flow from the overflow tube, add ATF into the refill hole until ATF flows from the overflow tube. If the ATF flows in a thin stream, the fluid amount is normal.
k) Install a new gasket and the overflow plug.
Torque: 20 Nm (204 kgf-cm, 15 ft-lbf)
(l) Install a new O-ring and the refill plug.
Torque: 39 Nm (398 kgf-cm, 29 ft-lbf)
(m) Lower the vehicle down.
(n) Turn the engine switch off.
(o) w/ Air Suspension:
Disconnect the terminals 11 (OPB) and 4 (CG) of the DLC3.
Click Here
Vehicle » Transmission and Drivetrain » Automatic Transmission/Transaxle » Fluid - A/T » Service and Repair
Service and Repair
AA80E AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION: AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID: ADJUSTMENT
ADJUSTMENT
BEFORE REFILL TRANSMISSION
This transmission requires Toyota Genuine ATF WS transmission fluid.
After servicing the transmission, you must refill the transmission with the correct amount of fluid.
Maintain the vehicle in a horizontal position while adjusting the fluid level.
If the entire transmission, transmission pan, drain plug, valve body and/or torque converter is replaced, proceed to the "FILL TRANSMISSION PAN" procedures.
If the transmission hose, extension housing oil seal and/or radiator is replaced and/or a repair of oil leak is performed, proceed to the "ADJUST FLUID LEVEL" procedures.
FILL TRANSMISSION PAN
(a) Lift the vehicle up while keeping a level state.
(b) Remove the refill plug and overflow plug.
(c) Fill the transmission through the refill hole until fluid begins to trickle out from the overflow tube.
(d) Reinstall the overflow plug.
FILL TRANSMISSION
(a) Fill the transmission with the amount of fluid listed in the table below. (3.2 liters if the pan is drained).
ADJUST FLUID LEVEL
(a) w/o Air Suspension:
Using SST, connect terminals 13 (TC) and 4 (CG) of the DLC3.
SST: 09843-18040
(b) w/ Air Suspension:
Using SST, connect terminals 13 (TC), 11 (OPB) and 4 (CG) of the DLC3.
SST: 09843-18040
(c) Start the engine.
NOTE: Air conditioning switch must be turned off.
(d) Slowly move the shift lever from P to S, then move the shift lever from the 1 to 8. Then return the shift lever to P.
e) Move the shift lever to the D position, and quickly move back and forth between N and D (once per less than 1.5 seconds) for at least 6 seconds.
This will activate the fluid temperature detection mode.
Standard:
Indicator light (D) remains illuminated for 2 seconds and then goes off.
(f) w/o Air Suspension:
Return the shift lever to the P position and disconnect terminals 13 (TC) and 4 (CG).
(g) w/ Air Suspension:
Return the shift lever to the P position and disconnect terminal 13 (TC).
(h) Idle the engine to raise the temperature of the ATF.
(i) When the indicator light (D) turns on, lift the vehicle up immediately.
Indicator light will indicate the ATF temperature:
off - temp too low.
on - proper temp.
blinking - temp too high
NOTE: Perform fluid level inspection while the indicator light turns on.
(j) Remove the overflow plug. At the proper fluid inspection temperature, check the fluid amount.
If the ATF flows from the overflow tube and the ATF flows in a thin stream, the fluid amount is normal.
If the ATF does not flow from the overflow tube, add ATF into the refill hole until ATF flows from the overflow tube. If the ATF flows in a thin stream, the fluid amount is normal.
k) Install a new gasket and the overflow plug.
Torque: 20 Nm (204 kgf-cm, 15 ft-lbf)
(l) Install a new O-ring and the refill plug.
Torque: 39 Nm (398 kgf-cm, 29 ft-lbf)
(m) Lower the vehicle down.
(n) Turn the engine switch off.
(o) w/ Air Suspension:
Disconnect the terminals 11 (OPB) and 4 (CG) of the DLC3.
So yeah.....for 70 bucks, I'll leave it to Toyota while I enjoy sports highlights and a few free espressos and donuts in their lounge.
As for the spark plug DIY I did, yes it was physically harder to do, but is very straightforward and you either did it right or you didnt. You'll know as soon as you start your car and drive it. No sorcery or witchcraft involved (ie techstream or jumpers).
Same with brake line bleed/flush.....I leave that one to Toyota too. Again, because of Techstream
09-08-15, 01:22 PM
#12
Driver
Thread Starter
Roadfrog - how much fluid are they replacing with the Techstream?
I agree that some maintenance is not worth doing yourself for a multitude of reasons - the confusion and the reluctance of the DIY community to do this maintenance intrigues me.
I agree that some maintenance is not worth doing yourself for a multitude of reasons - the confusion and the reluctance of the DIY community to do this maintenance intrigues me.
09-08-15, 06:46 PM
#13
Lexus Fanatic
09-08-15, 07:42 PM
#14
Around 4 quarts are drained during a drain and refill. Toyota Techstream has nothing to do with the amount of fluid that is drained. It is used to monitor the transmission temp. Funny, the procedure is exactly the same as my 2006 LS430.
09-09-15, 04:22 PM
#15
Pole Position
Meh....I just think that for the 70 dollar difference to have it done by the Toyota dealer, it's good peace of mind. When I look at the very comprehensive and extensive document on how to do it properly (and with Techstream which I don't have), I'd just always wonder if I did more harm than good. There's more to the procedure than just draining and filling.
What I gather from this procedure, there's more involved than just refilling what you remove, especially if you don;t know if the trans was full in the first place (especially if someone did this job before you owned your car, whether that be at a lube and oil shop or a shade tree mechanic.
So yeah.....for 70 bucks, I'll leave it to Toyota while I enjoy sports highlights and a few free espressos and donuts in their lounge.
As for the spark plug DIY I did, yes it was physically harder to do, but is very straightforward and you either did it right or you didnt. You'll know as soon as you start your car and drive it. No sorcery or witchcraft involved (ie techstream or jumpers).
Same with brake line bleed/flush.....I leave that one to Toyota too. Again, because of Techstream
What I gather from this procedure, there's more involved than just refilling what you remove, especially if you don;t know if the trans was full in the first place (especially if someone did this job before you owned your car, whether that be at a lube and oil shop or a shade tree mechanic.
So yeah.....for 70 bucks, I'll leave it to Toyota while I enjoy sports highlights and a few free espressos and donuts in their lounge.
As for the spark plug DIY I did, yes it was physically harder to do, but is very straightforward and you either did it right or you didnt. You'll know as soon as you start your car and drive it. No sorcery or witchcraft involved (ie techstream or jumpers).
Same with brake line bleed/flush.....I leave that one to Toyota too. Again, because of Techstream
Other than that, tech stream is not needed, nor is the transmission temperature procedure. Now if you're talking about dropping the pan and replacing the filter, that's a whole other story (which was the case with me). In that case you will have to go through the temperature check and follow all those steps. Personally I don't like the entire procedure involved for checking the fluid, because of the fact that they want the fluid to come out in a "light stream". I imagine more than one tech at a dealership didn't know or care if it came out in a light stream, just as long as something came out.