Repairs Done So Far - Is this normal?
04-08-15, 01:47 PM
#1
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
Repairs Done So Far - Is this normal?
I bought my used 2009 LS460 AWD SWB about six months ago wth 72k miles on it and use it as my daily driver. So far I have had the following repairs done:
1) Upper and lower control arms replaced (I sourced the OEM parts myself and brought them to an independent mechanic to save labor costs) - total cost about $3,100
2) Right and left front wheel hub assembly replacement (Lexus dealership handled the repair) - Total cost about $1,400 but by this point I had purchased a third party warranty and they covered this repair
3) Power steering rack replacement (Lexus dealership) - Total cost about $4,000 covered by my third party warranty
4) Driver side rear air strut replacement - Total cost about $1,900 covered by my third party warranty
So after only about six months I've had over $10,000 in repair work done. I know some people may say that I could have had this work done at an independent mechanic and used aftermarket parts to save on costs but even then the total bill would probably have been around $5,000 (I'm just guessing). Anyways, I'm not trying to start a debate on independent mechanics/aftermarket versus dealership/OEM. To be honest had I not had a third party warranty I most likely would have gone for cheaper alternatives but I digress...
My question for this forum is whether this seems like I got a lemon given the extensive repairs I've had to get in only six months of ownership? I know control arms and air struts are common repairs but this just feels like a lot of stuff.
Thoughts? Have any others had similar experiences? Thanks.
1) Upper and lower control arms replaced (I sourced the OEM parts myself and brought them to an independent mechanic to save labor costs) - total cost about $3,100
2) Right and left front wheel hub assembly replacement (Lexus dealership handled the repair) - Total cost about $1,400 but by this point I had purchased a third party warranty and they covered this repair
3) Power steering rack replacement (Lexus dealership) - Total cost about $4,000 covered by my third party warranty
4) Driver side rear air strut replacement - Total cost about $1,900 covered by my third party warranty
So after only about six months I've had over $10,000 in repair work done. I know some people may say that I could have had this work done at an independent mechanic and used aftermarket parts to save on costs but even then the total bill would probably have been around $5,000 (I'm just guessing). Anyways, I'm not trying to start a debate on independent mechanics/aftermarket versus dealership/OEM. To be honest had I not had a third party warranty I most likely would have gone for cheaper alternatives but I digress...
My question for this forum is whether this seems like I got a lemon given the extensive repairs I've had to get in only six months of ownership? I know control arms and air struts are common repairs but this just feels like a lot of stuff.
Thoughts? Have any others had similar experiences? Thanks.
Last edited by wayman28; 04-09-15 at 11:14 AM.
04-08-15, 02:15 PM
#2
I would say your repairs have been excessive. I thought the control arm bushing problem was limited to '07 and '08 models.
The only thing is you don't know how the car was driven the first 72,000 miles. The previous owner(s) may have abused it.
Hopefully everything has been done now and you will enjoy many miles of trouble free driving.
The only thing is you don't know how the car was driven the first 72,000 miles. The previous owner(s) may have abused it.
Hopefully everything has been done now and you will enjoy many miles of trouble free driving.
04-08-15, 02:36 PM
#3
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
Thanks. On the control arms I wish I didn't have to get those replaced. I had both a Lexus dealer and an independent mechanic identify the lower control arm bushings were worn out and the upper ones were on their way so I just had all eight of them replaced at once so I wouldn't have to go back and forth. I saved the control arms and saw with my own eyes how badly worn the lower arm bushings were. Crazy.
Well the thing that has made this easier to swallow is that I lucked out with a third party warranty that has covered most of these repairs so the out of pocket impact has been very minimal (knock on wood). Plus I still have over 2.5 years and 30k miles left on the warranty policy and it has already paid for itself two-fold.
I do have some peace of mind that as these repairs are completed I hopefully shouldn't need to worry about them again for the rest of my ownership of this car (knock on wood). Given the excellent reviews of this car I just didn't expect to have to deal with so many repairs so soon.
Thanks for your input.
Well the thing that has made this easier to swallow is that I lucked out with a third party warranty that has covered most of these repairs so the out of pocket impact has been very minimal (knock on wood). Plus I still have over 2.5 years and 30k miles left on the warranty policy and it has already paid for itself two-fold.
I do have some peace of mind that as these repairs are completed I hopefully shouldn't need to worry about them again for the rest of my ownership of this car (knock on wood). Given the excellent reviews of this car I just didn't expect to have to deal with so many repairs so soon.
Thanks for your input.
04-08-15, 02:45 PM
#4
My '08 460L had all those repairs (minus the wheel bearing) and more done... When I first got it, it had a hard-to-find vibration, and let's just say I was less than happy with the car and purchase. However, Lexus came through in an unbelievable way, and then the car was flawless.
Culprits of my vibration were steering rack (in front) and drive shaft (in rear). The vehicle is very nice and, overall, very reliable. However, this is all from the period of fast growth during which Lexus arguably dropped the ball (relative to its own sterling record), and hence the incidence of some of this "weird" stuff on some units (for instance, my car had a bad drive shaft angle from the factory!). Steering rack is also not as common (though definitely not unique to your car and mine). Control arms and air struts, well, that's a different story! We can add the brake actuator to that list of known issues.
Culprits of my vibration were steering rack (in front) and drive shaft (in rear). The vehicle is very nice and, overall, very reliable. However, this is all from the period of fast growth during which Lexus arguably dropped the ball (relative to its own sterling record), and hence the incidence of some of this "weird" stuff on some units (for instance, my car had a bad drive shaft angle from the factory!). Steering rack is also not as common (though definitely not unique to your car and mine). Control arms and air struts, well, that's a different story! We can add the brake actuator to that list of known issues.
Last edited by caha14; 04-08-15 at 02:52 PM.
04-08-15, 07:00 PM
#5
Pole Position
I would say most of it is normal...minus the repair costs and steering rack. You are going to have wheel bearings fail on any car, but you're not going to find anyone pay $1400 dollars to have it replaced...who replaced it for you? Jesus Christ?
And control arms certainly will fail - it's common on all cars - but the difference is most cars cost 300-$1000 dollars to fix. Once again I ask, why so much? Same for the air bag suspension..those fail.
The only thing I'd be leery about is the rack, at least at that mileage. A power steering rack should last over 100k (at least). Now if we were talking about an older GM vehicle I'd say, sure, yeah it will fail at 60k, but not a Lexus. And not an electric rack.
So I'd say you are having some normal problems at abnormal prices. Personally my car has 94k miles on it and I've never experienced any of this (thank God). But tell you what, if I do I'll never pay those prices. Most people on here are getting their control arms replaced for $1000 or less. I've personally seen power steering racks on Ebay for $700. And wheel bearings??? Those are a couple of hundred bucks...even if you had a shop put one in, I've never heard of any wheel bearing replacement costing over $500...and that's really stretching it.
And control arms certainly will fail - it's common on all cars - but the difference is most cars cost 300-$1000 dollars to fix. Once again I ask, why so much? Same for the air bag suspension..those fail.
The only thing I'd be leery about is the rack, at least at that mileage. A power steering rack should last over 100k (at least). Now if we were talking about an older GM vehicle I'd say, sure, yeah it will fail at 60k, but not a Lexus. And not an electric rack.
So I'd say you are having some normal problems at abnormal prices. Personally my car has 94k miles on it and I've never experienced any of this (thank God). But tell you what, if I do I'll never pay those prices. Most people on here are getting their control arms replaced for $1000 or less. I've personally seen power steering racks on Ebay for $700. And wheel bearings??? Those are a couple of hundred bucks...even if you had a shop put one in, I've never heard of any wheel bearing replacement costing over $500...and that's really stretching it.
04-08-15, 07:38 PM
#6
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
I would say most of it is normal...minus the repair costs and steering rack. You are going to have wheel bearings fail on any car, but you're not going to find anyone pay $1400 dollars to have it replaced...who replaced it for you? Jesus Christ?
And control arms certainly will fail - it's common on all cars - but the difference is most cars cost 300-$1000 dollars to fix. Once again I ask, why so much? Same for the air bag suspension..those fail.
The only thing I'd be leery about is the rack, at least at that mileage. A power steering rack should last over 100k (at least). Now if we were talking about an older GM vehicle I'd say, sure, yeah it will fail at 60k, but not a Lexus. And not an electric rack.
So I'd say you are having some normal problems at abnormal prices. Personally my car has 94k miles on it and I've never experienced any of this (thank God). But tell you what, if I do I'll never pay those prices. Most people on here are getting their control arms replaced for $1000 or less. I've personally seen power steering racks on Ebay for $700. And wheel bearings??? Those are a couple of hundred bucks...even if you had a shop put one in, I've never heard of any wheel bearing replacement costing over $500...and that's really stretching it.
And control arms certainly will fail - it's common on all cars - but the difference is most cars cost 300-$1000 dollars to fix. Once again I ask, why so much? Same for the air bag suspension..those fail.
The only thing I'd be leery about is the rack, at least at that mileage. A power steering rack should last over 100k (at least). Now if we were talking about an older GM vehicle I'd say, sure, yeah it will fail at 60k, but not a Lexus. And not an electric rack.
So I'd say you are having some normal problems at abnormal prices. Personally my car has 94k miles on it and I've never experienced any of this (thank God). But tell you what, if I do I'll never pay those prices. Most people on here are getting their control arms replaced for $1000 or less. I've personally seen power steering racks on Ebay for $700. And wheel bearings??? Those are a couple of hundred bucks...even if you had a shop put one in, I've never heard of any wheel bearing replacement costing over $500...and that's really stretching it.
I don't doubt that I could have done some legwork to get cheaper prices on the other repairs but like I said they were covered under warranty so it wasn't an issue.
Thanks for your input.
04-08-15, 07:47 PM
#7
Lexus Fanatic
I would say most of it is normal...minus the repair costs and steering rack. You are going to have wheel bearings fail on any car, but you're not going to find anyone pay $1400 dollars to have it replaced...who replaced it for you? Jesus Christ?
And control arms certainly will fail - it's common on all cars - but the difference is most cars cost 300-$1000 dollars to fix. Once again I ask, why so much? Same for the air bag suspension..those fail.
The only thing I'd be leery about is the rack, at least at that mileage. A power steering rack should last over 100k (at least). Now if we were talking about an older GM vehicle I'd say, sure, yeah it will fail at 60k, but not a Lexus. And not an electric rack.
So I'd say you are having some normal problems at abnormal prices. Personally my car has 94k miles on it and I've never experienced any of this (thank God). But tell you what, if I do I'll never pay those prices. Most people on here are getting their control arms replaced for $1000 or less. I've personally seen power steering racks on Ebay for $700. And wheel bearings??? Those are a couple of hundred bucks...even if you had a shop put one in, I've never heard of any wheel bearing replacement costing over $500...and that's really stretching it.
And control arms certainly will fail - it's common on all cars - but the difference is most cars cost 300-$1000 dollars to fix. Once again I ask, why so much? Same for the air bag suspension..those fail.
The only thing I'd be leery about is the rack, at least at that mileage. A power steering rack should last over 100k (at least). Now if we were talking about an older GM vehicle I'd say, sure, yeah it will fail at 60k, but not a Lexus. And not an electric rack.
So I'd say you are having some normal problems at abnormal prices. Personally my car has 94k miles on it and I've never experienced any of this (thank God). But tell you what, if I do I'll never pay those prices. Most people on here are getting their control arms replaced for $1000 or less. I've personally seen power steering racks on Ebay for $700. And wheel bearings??? Those are a couple of hundred bucks...even if you had a shop put one in, I've never heard of any wheel bearing replacement costing over $500...and that's really stretching it.
1500 bucks for a wheel bearing????!! I just checked Ebay and they can be had for $97.00.......According to my labour estimates from my subsription to "AllDataDIY" - labour is 1.6 hours. for the front and 2.1 for the rear. so......MAYBE $300 all in?
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04-08-15, 09:37 PM
#8
Along with the exaggerated gross discrepancy in prices I also believe that dealerships take a shotgun approach with throwing the baby with the bathwater unless it's on their dime.
I have experienced this before especially with the BMW dealership where they were trying to stick BMW and my own out of pocket costs for a CPO to the maximum with unnecessary repairs and diagnoses.
Car manufactures and dealerships have essentially taken a playbook from the health care industry and before you know it will be a compulsory mandate that everyone has to have an extended warranty.
The bubble was created by the industry and it's such a scam that its becoming harder for ignorant owners to get around.
The only faith I have is with Toyota Japan and their high quality standards but they really need to start cracking down on the dealerships that carry their name.
I have experienced this before especially with the BMW dealership where they were trying to stick BMW and my own out of pocket costs for a CPO to the maximum with unnecessary repairs and diagnoses.
Car manufactures and dealerships have essentially taken a playbook from the health care industry and before you know it will be a compulsory mandate that everyone has to have an extended warranty.
The bubble was created by the industry and it's such a scam that its becoming harder for ignorant owners to get around.
The only faith I have is with Toyota Japan and their high quality standards but they really need to start cracking down on the dealerships that carry their name.
Last edited by Devh; 04-08-15 at 09:44 PM.
04-08-15, 10:38 PM
#9
Lexus Fanatic
Ebay for about a quarter of the price of OEM but I live in an area with a ton of potholes and rough roads (NYC area) and this is my daily driver so I wanted to make sure I had OEM quality suspension for long term peace of mind.
Just sayin'.
04-08-15, 11:06 PM
#10
Pole Position
Perfectly normal repairs .. I've had way more fixed in the last 2 years and all on a very low mileage car pampered by a previous elderly owner . It's typical I think of Lexus in that period by all accounts especially the LS . I still love my car as it's basically a great car and thank god for the $2200 lexus care warranty I bought when I purchased it . I so nearly said no it won't be necessary based on all my previous Lexus experiences ! To date over $20,000 has been rectified by Lexus without a blink on their part . In 12 months when my warranty expires even though I sometimes feel the car has been practically rebuilt I'll be down there getting a new RX or used 2014 LS
04-09-15, 09:12 AM
#11
Lexus Test Driver
Wayman...please know that my laughter is NOT at your expense, however - Roadfrog strikes again!
04-09-15, 10:19 AM
#12
I'm sorry to say this but if you have to pay more then your warranties worth for repairs then you are not driving the right car and you most likely ended up with a car that was abused or neglected.
Never in my life did I ever had to pay more for any of my cars then what a warranty would have got me except for once and that was my own fault for not having the car properly inspected before purchase and the last owner had everything to do with it's hidden condition.
I have seen Merc and BMW with repair costs that meet the criteria of being a lousy purchase but not anything from Japan.
Come November it will be two solid years with the LS and not one problem except a bad battery which is no big deal and expected part of the ownership.
The truth of the matter is nobody speaks on behalf of the silent majority that don't have issues , it's always those that have lemons that scream the loudest and believe that everyone is doomed for either their poor decisions or bad luck.
Never in my life did I ever had to pay more for any of my cars then what a warranty would have got me except for once and that was my own fault for not having the car properly inspected before purchase and the last owner had everything to do with it's hidden condition.
I have seen Merc and BMW with repair costs that meet the criteria of being a lousy purchase but not anything from Japan.
Come November it will be two solid years with the LS and not one problem except a bad battery which is no big deal and expected part of the ownership.
The truth of the matter is nobody speaks on behalf of the silent majority that don't have issues , it's always those that have lemons that scream the loudest and believe that everyone is doomed for either their poor decisions or bad luck.
04-09-15, 10:35 AM
#13
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
Ha, fair point. But if a $500 OEM part will fail at about 70k miles then would you be shocked if the $100 Ebay version of that part failed at 30k miles? And I thought Lexus switched out the control arm bushings after all of the premature failures.
04-09-15, 10:50 AM
#15
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
I'm sorry to say this but if you have to pay more then your warranties worth for repairs then you are not driving the right car and you most likely ended up with a car that was abused or neglected.
Never in my life did I ever had to pay more for any of my cars then what a warranty would have got me except for once and that was my own fault for not having the car properly inspected before purchase and the last owner had everything to do with it's hidden condition.
I have seen Merc and BMW with repair costs that meet the criteria of being a lousy purchase but not anything from Japan.
Come November it will be two solid years with the LS and not one problem except a bad battery which is no big deal and expected part of the ownership.
The truth of the matter is nobody speaks on behalf of the silent majority that don't have issues , it's always those that have lemons that scream the loudest and believe that everyone is doomed for either their poor decisions or bad luck.
Never in my life did I ever had to pay more for any of my cars then what a warranty would have got me except for once and that was my own fault for not having the car properly inspected before purchase and the last owner had everything to do with it's hidden condition.
I have seen Merc and BMW with repair costs that meet the criteria of being a lousy purchase but not anything from Japan.
Come November it will be two solid years with the LS and not one problem except a bad battery which is no big deal and expected part of the ownership.
The truth of the matter is nobody speaks on behalf of the silent majority that don't have issues , it's always those that have lemons that scream the loudest and believe that everyone is doomed for either their poor decisions or bad luck.
The car was regularly serviced at a dealership so I had the entire history and, while I have no idea how hard the previous owner drove the car, it was regularly maintained. The 60k service was done at a Lexus dealership about 7 months before I bought it.
During the inspections the control arms were noted as an issue and some other minor items. Of all the repairs I've had to do so far, they all seem reasonable for our car (wheel hub bearing, control arms and air strut) but I just didn't think they would all hit at about the same time within 6 months of ownership. The only repair that was really unexpected was the power steering rack. None of my inspections turned up any issues with that and those symptoms started only about two weeks ago. Not sure I could have done anything to predict the steering rack was going to fail before buying it.
I'm not sure I totally agree with your perspective that if you spend more than your warranty cost in repairs then you got a bad car. I paid $2400 for my warranty and it's not hard to rack up $2400 worth of repairs with our cars. I doubt anyone would say that a car was abused if it had to replace control arms and one air strut, but those two repairs could easily top $2400.