jud149

Yep, you're right. Interestingly regarding my Lincoln, you can use system pressure to bleed the rear by turning on the ign. to run position to charge the accumulator, holding the brake pedal down and then opening a rear bleeder for ten seconds and repeating until air free clear fluid are seen. The front can be bleed conventionally or with a pressure bleeder.

Still don't know if I can get away with a gravity or vacuum bleed on my '11 460. I'll chat with one of the techs next time I'm at the dealer. What generated my original question was that my 460 (CPO) was given the 30K mile maintenance procedure when I bought it, even though it had just 24K on it, and the brake fluid was supposedly flushed. I'm wondering if they just did a reservoir fluid replacement or actually flushed the lines.

robert1408

If you're wondering if they flushed the brakes, pull the service records for your car. If the 30k service was performed at the dealer, the brake flush should be there. I worked at an independent auto service chain before retiring in late 2012. It would have been unthinkable to only change the fluid in the reservoir and call that a brake flush. While there no certainty here, I believe it is very unlikely a Lexus tech would not actually flush the fluid on through the bleeders. He's being paid flag time to do it. Plus, a brake flush is a car lifted, wheels off job. If a tech isn't doing an actual flush per the work order, one or two others in the shop will know what is happening.

I can tell you that techs are somewhat competitive in a shop. Techs who shortcut and do poor or sleazy work are frowned on by the techs who are doing it right. They will tend to resent a bad tech who flag more paying hours by shortcutting jobs.

jud149

I would get those records at the dealer? The 30K maintenance was done per the service history for the car, just a one liner. Lexus' 30K maintenance schedule only says "replace brake fluid". Thanks for your help.

williakz

You only "believe" a full brake fluid flush (including brake lines, cylinders, and bleeding) is performed. I have spoken with both a Lexus service advisor AND a tech. BOTH admitted (somewhat shamefaced) that the 30k "Lexus brake fluid service" is simply a reservoir suck-out and replacement. So please don't tell us what a brake flush IS; it IS what Lexus says it IS - and it is NOT anything like you describe.

jud149

Out of curiosity how do you know every Lexus dealer does it that way?

williakz

Because I have sent an official form to each and every Lexus dealer demanding an exact description of the "brake fluid flush" procedure used in the 30k mile service bundle. Each and every Lexus dealer reported back to me that they only replace the brake fluid they suck out of the brake fluid reservoir while leaving the "old, crappy" fluid in the brake lines and cylinders.

That work for you?

jud149

So you wrote to every Lexus dealer? Would that be just the USA or the world? That every agency responded is quite remarkable. And even more remarkable is when one considers the cost of postage, envelope and survey form requests, your time and then tracking of all replies.

This being the case, you would have written to JM Lexus in S. Florida, the largest Lexus dealer in the USA and from whom I purchased my '11 460 last August, and who did the 30K scheduled mtce work, including the "brake fluid replacement" as it's called by Lexus. I'd be curious as to who replied. I currently have a call in to one of the service managers at JM concerning this subject and I'll be sure to advise the response.

FWIW, I just want to be sure what brake fluid mtce procedures have been done on my car. If a flush has not been performed, I'll either do it myself or have it done.

robert1408

You're right, the schedule says "replace brake fluid". It's a matter of definitions here. The reservoir contains only some of the fluid in the system. To a knowledgeable service writer and any tech, "replace…" is synonymous with flush.

As to getting any documentation that the brake service was actually performed, I suggest talking first to a service writer and explain your concerns. Then ask to speak with the service manager about your car. It will probably come down to trusting their answers.

roadfrog

I guess my Toyota dealer does it differently (and properly). My car went on a hoist and I saw them fiddling with the lines. The service took nearly two hours. Sucking the fluid out of the reservoir with a turkey baster would not have involved any of that.

Williakz: Your claims are a little wild and causes us to question credibility.

williakz

You have provided the desired response (and initiated the desired action) in answer to my admittedly somewhat hyperbolic claim. I DID, in fact, talk to ONE service advisor and ONE technician at my local Lexus dealer. My slight exaggeration of this rather diminutive "truth nugget" into a claim of global proportions was designed to motivate truth-seekers like yourself to get off your butts, shelve your erstwhile "beliefs", and find out just WTF is going on with the pricey Lexus services you are paying for. Good for you on both your skepticism regarding my claims and, MORE IMPORTANTLY, your new-found skepticism applied to your friendly Lexus dealer. I await your presentation of lessons learned.

jud149

Not surprisingly, full brake fluid flush per JM Lexus Svc. Mgr.

robert1408

Good deal! I believed that would be the case. As a minor point, a tech will usually suction out the reservoir and refill it with fresh fluid before bleeding.

jud149

That is what he said. First replace fluid in reservoir and then activate abs pump with the tool which will flush the lines when bleeders are opened, obviously keeping the reservoir topped off during the process. They get $159 for this service.

Nospinzone

You know, for the amount of work involved, that's probably the best bargain from Lexus service!

williakz

And now you know. Congratulations!