Filed a Lemon complaint with Lexus Corp.....
05-16-13, 07:59 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Filed a Lemon complaint with Lexus Corp.....
I bought my 2009 LS just over a year ago, and in the first 10 months that I have had the car (took about 6-8 weeks to have some work done then get delivered to me in another state), i have had the following:
2 front windows replaced (yellowing of the tint between the 2 panes of glass)
ABS actuator replaced (i think this was a recall)
both front air struts replaced
one of the front struts replaced a 2nd time
bought brackets to allow the car to be properly aligned (this still pisses me off.....just the idea that you have to buy parts to allow your car to get into alignment).......
transmission issues in the 1-2-3 gears (all 5 official service tickets were closed as 'normal operation' of the car).
The transmission issue is really what has been the longest nagging issue I've had with this car. When I'm coming to a stop, in the downshifting of gears 3 to 2 to 1, I feel a harder shift than I do in ANY OTHER CAR I HAVE EVER DRIVEN. I rent cars all the time for work, and if a Hundai Sonata can come to a practically seamless stop, then my Lexus LS sure the $%^& should as well.
This is also not an issue that is across the board with Lexus, as the loaner RX's that I typically get have a butter smooth stopping sequence. I should not FEEL the transmission in routine stopping....and maybe that's an unrealistic expectation, but I feel it, sometimes hear it (not a grinding issue really, more like a sudden knock/grip when the lower gears engage).
Whether I get the transmission fixed at this point I could care less. While all of the above repairs (except the alignment brackets) have been covered under the CPO warranty, the total retail dollars of all repairs is almost $22k (10 MONTHS!!!!!!).
I have called Lexus and complained that at this point, I have a car that I would imagine practically impossible to sell......that the repairs required up to now, while not financially out of pocket, will have completely made the car impossible to sell.
Maybe that's me overreacting to the repairs that have been needed, but I am so annoyed. I do love this car (in theory, in appearance, in everything), but this particular one has gotten to the point of me not having as warm a fuzzy as I should have when cruising around town, especially when so much of that cruising is right to the dealership again..........
Have any of y'all had anything near the issues as I've had with CPO vehicles? Think my chances are zero on getting the car bought back? (To be clear, I would absolutely get another LS, as I know this is not the standard for Lexus, but the amount of repairs required in less than a calendar year is astounding IMO).
2 front windows replaced (yellowing of the tint between the 2 panes of glass)
ABS actuator replaced (i think this was a recall)
both front air struts replaced
one of the front struts replaced a 2nd time
bought brackets to allow the car to be properly aligned (this still pisses me off.....just the idea that you have to buy parts to allow your car to get into alignment).......
transmission issues in the 1-2-3 gears (all 5 official service tickets were closed as 'normal operation' of the car).
The transmission issue is really what has been the longest nagging issue I've had with this car. When I'm coming to a stop, in the downshifting of gears 3 to 2 to 1, I feel a harder shift than I do in ANY OTHER CAR I HAVE EVER DRIVEN. I rent cars all the time for work, and if a Hundai Sonata can come to a practically seamless stop, then my Lexus LS sure the $%^& should as well.
This is also not an issue that is across the board with Lexus, as the loaner RX's that I typically get have a butter smooth stopping sequence. I should not FEEL the transmission in routine stopping....and maybe that's an unrealistic expectation, but I feel it, sometimes hear it (not a grinding issue really, more like a sudden knock/grip when the lower gears engage).
Whether I get the transmission fixed at this point I could care less. While all of the above repairs (except the alignment brackets) have been covered under the CPO warranty, the total retail dollars of all repairs is almost $22k (10 MONTHS!!!!!!).
I have called Lexus and complained that at this point, I have a car that I would imagine practically impossible to sell......that the repairs required up to now, while not financially out of pocket, will have completely made the car impossible to sell.
Maybe that's me overreacting to the repairs that have been needed, but I am so annoyed. I do love this car (in theory, in appearance, in everything), but this particular one has gotten to the point of me not having as warm a fuzzy as I should have when cruising around town, especially when so much of that cruising is right to the dealership again..........
Have any of y'all had anything near the issues as I've had with CPO vehicles? Think my chances are zero on getting the car bought back? (To be clear, I would absolutely get another LS, as I know this is not the standard for Lexus, but the amount of repairs required in less than a calendar year is astounding IMO).
Last edited by 09LS460; 05-16-13 at 08:11 PM.
05-16-13, 08:09 PM
#2
Lemon
I do not think you come close to any lemon law. The car has age and a lot of miles, plus in most states that I have lived in the lemon law requires it to be a problem that cannot be fixed after four attempts in a one year period for the same issue.
05-16-13, 08:15 PM
#3
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Thread Starter
The car has 57k miles on it and there's no way imaginable in my mind that $22k worth of repairs in a years time is reasonable.
I don't know what tests they may have done to the transmission, but it has been to the shop 4 or 5 times in the year and they have not resolved it (sorry, but telling me what I feel from this car is normal is not cutting it). The RX doesn't feel that way, no other car I have been in feels that way........
One of the items on the law books regarding lemon eligibility is:
----The defect must "substantially impair the use, market value or safety of the vehicle";
I think that the number/dollar amount of repairs in 1 year absolutely impact the market value of the car, no?
I don't know what tests they may have done to the transmission, but it has been to the shop 4 or 5 times in the year and they have not resolved it (sorry, but telling me what I feel from this car is normal is not cutting it). The RX doesn't feel that way, no other car I have been in feels that way........
One of the items on the law books regarding lemon eligibility is:
----The defect must "substantially impair the use, market value or safety of the vehicle";
I think that the number/dollar amount of repairs in 1 year absolutely impact the market value of the car, no?
Last edited by 09LS460; 05-16-13 at 08:18 PM.
05-16-13, 08:23 PM
#4
Forum Administrator
iTrader: (2)
Don't think the lemon law applies to used cars... You skipped an important criteria:
http://consumerprotection.utah.gov/c...tomobiles.html
Not saying you don't have a valid complaint, just that the lemon law isn't likely the path for any resolution.
http://consumerprotection.utah.gov/c...tomobiles.html
If you're not satisfied with the work that was done, contact the repair shop's manager to try to resolve the problem. If you can't work it out and you suspect a violation of the laws enforced by the Division, contact the Division to file a complaint.
Utah's "Lemon Law"
Consumers who buy or lease a new automobile or motor home with significant defects that can't be repaired, or in other words consumers who buy a "lemon," can obtain relief under the Utah New Motor Vehicle Warranties Act or "Lemon Law."
The Lemon Law applies to new cars under warranty and was extended in 1990 to also cover new leased vehicles and motor homes. The Lemon Law does NOT apply to used vehicles.
For your vehicle to qualify as a "lemon" under the Lemon Law, the following criteria must apply:
The vehicle must have been purchased in the state of Utah;
The vehicle must be new and under warranty;
The vehicle must weigh less than 12,000 pounds;
The defect must "substantially impair the use, market value or safety of the vehicle";
The vehicle must have been to the manufacturer to have the same defect resolved at least four times OR out of service to the consumer a total of 30 days DURING the first year or the warranty period, whichever is less (if your problems occur AFTER this time period, you do NOT qualify for the Utah Lemon Law);
The defect cannot be the result of abuse, neglect or unauthorized modifications of the vehicle; AND
The consumer must go through any informal dispute settlement or arbitration procedure the manufacturer may have established - such as the Better Business Bureau's AutoLine.
If your vehicle meets ALL of the criteria, your next step is to file a complaint with the Division of Consumer Protection. Include with your complaint COPIES of any relevant documents, including service records, and arbitration or dispute settlement records. After your vehicle is determined to be a "lemon", you may qualify for either a replacement or a cash refund. The manufacturer may charge you a "reasonable" amount for use of the vehicle as prescribed by law, usually 10 to 23 cents per mile. You can have the Division try to obtain restitution for you, or you can take private action with the help of your own attorney.
Utah's "Lemon Law"
Consumers who buy or lease a new automobile or motor home with significant defects that can't be repaired, or in other words consumers who buy a "lemon," can obtain relief under the Utah New Motor Vehicle Warranties Act or "Lemon Law."
The Lemon Law applies to new cars under warranty and was extended in 1990 to also cover new leased vehicles and motor homes. The Lemon Law does NOT apply to used vehicles.
For your vehicle to qualify as a "lemon" under the Lemon Law, the following criteria must apply:
The vehicle must have been purchased in the state of Utah;
The vehicle must be new and under warranty;
The vehicle must weigh less than 12,000 pounds;
The defect must "substantially impair the use, market value or safety of the vehicle";
The vehicle must have been to the manufacturer to have the same defect resolved at least four times OR out of service to the consumer a total of 30 days DURING the first year or the warranty period, whichever is less (if your problems occur AFTER this time period, you do NOT qualify for the Utah Lemon Law);
The defect cannot be the result of abuse, neglect or unauthorized modifications of the vehicle; AND
The consumer must go through any informal dispute settlement or arbitration procedure the manufacturer may have established - such as the Better Business Bureau's AutoLine.
If your vehicle meets ALL of the criteria, your next step is to file a complaint with the Division of Consumer Protection. Include with your complaint COPIES of any relevant documents, including service records, and arbitration or dispute settlement records. After your vehicle is determined to be a "lemon", you may qualify for either a replacement or a cash refund. The manufacturer may charge you a "reasonable" amount for use of the vehicle as prescribed by law, usually 10 to 23 cents per mile. You can have the Division try to obtain restitution for you, or you can take private action with the help of your own attorney.
Last edited by DaveGS4; 05-16-13 at 08:27 PM.
05-16-13, 08:42 PM
#5
Rookie
Thread Starter
The 'Lemon' term was something that Lexus put out there, and I did call back to clarify with her whether Lemon Law would come into play on a used car purchased in a different state. (the letter they sent me confirming they had my file itemized that I had filed a Lemon Law complaint.
To clarify.......I didn't purchase the car in Utah (it was MO), but the Lexus rep in the buyback department indicated that Lemon does apply to CPO'd cars, and it would be Utah's laws that apply because that's where the complaint is being filed in, regardless of where it was purchased....
I don't know if what Lexus is looking at is purely state based Lemon Law or Customer Care Lexus stepping in......who knows.....At this point I'm just waiting to see what they will do/say based on the issues that I've been having.....
To clarify.......I didn't purchase the car in Utah (it was MO), but the Lexus rep in the buyback department indicated that Lemon does apply to CPO'd cars, and it would be Utah's laws that apply because that's where the complaint is being filed in, regardless of where it was purchased....
I don't know if what Lexus is looking at is purely state based Lemon Law or Customer Care Lexus stepping in......who knows.....At this point I'm just waiting to see what they will do/say based on the issues that I've been having.....
05-17-13, 07:13 AM
#6
why dont they jut freaking put another complete tranny in it and be done? i mean, they can pick up a used transmission from another vehicle that is wrecked soooo easily and put it in yours. Why the hell do they go in it 5 times to solve the issue? it would beeasier to buy a used one for 5 grand and put it in yours and call it a day.
05-17-13, 09:08 AM
#7
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Thread Starter
I don't think they've done more than some high level troubleshooting and determined that everything was just fine......hooked it up to a computer or something, but I'm pretty sure it has never been opened up.
Other issues have been that when trying to get into the locked car, the FOB unlock would cause the car to beep and mirrors to open, but no door to unlock. Grabbing any of the handles would cause all the beeps in the world, but still no unlocking of the doors. About a month before this issue started, the passenger door (only) would not respond to unlocking, so I could be sitting in the drivers seat and press the lock/unlock and all door locks would move except the passenger. Eventually, it was both front doors, then all doors wouldn't unlock. The only way I could get into the car was to press and hold the unlock so all the windows would roll down......they seemed to doubt the issue until I took my car in with video that I recorded on my phone
About a month of the car being OK from the locking perspective, all of my outside door handles are currently not responding to touch so I cannot unlock the doors by grabbing the handle. Have to take it back in for this when I have time between business trips, but electrical issues that start shifting around are concerning......
Other issues have been that when trying to get into the locked car, the FOB unlock would cause the car to beep and mirrors to open, but no door to unlock. Grabbing any of the handles would cause all the beeps in the world, but still no unlocking of the doors. About a month before this issue started, the passenger door (only) would not respond to unlocking, so I could be sitting in the drivers seat and press the lock/unlock and all door locks would move except the passenger. Eventually, it was both front doors, then all doors wouldn't unlock. The only way I could get into the car was to press and hold the unlock so all the windows would roll down......they seemed to doubt the issue until I took my car in with video that I recorded on my phone
About a month of the car being OK from the locking perspective, all of my outside door handles are currently not responding to touch so I cannot unlock the doors by grabbing the handle. Have to take it back in for this when I have time between business trips, but electrical issues that start shifting around are concerning......
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05-18-13, 07:06 AM
#8
About a month of the car being OK from the locking perspective, all of my outside door handles are currently not responding to touch so I cannot unlock the doors by grabbing the handle. Have to take it back in for this when I have time between business trips, but electrical issues that start shifting around are concerning......
(1) The touch feature is disabled if the car sits idle for a month. This is done to conserve the car battery. You might encounter this with extended parking at the airport. You can restore the touch operation by pressing the little black button on one of the door handles or by pressing the lock button on the electronic key.
(2) The touch feature is disabled if the electronic key remains in the near-field area along the sides of the car for more than 10 minutes if the car is locked. You could encounter this if you locked your car and then stood beside your car for 10 minutes before walking away or approaching your car and lingering 10 minutes before you pulled the door handle. You can also encounter this feature by storing your electronic key near your car. This is done to conserve the battery in the electronic key. You can restore the touch operation by pressing the little black button on one of the door handles or by pressing the lock button on the electronic key.
05-18-13, 03:24 PM
#9
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Thread Starter
jmcraney, thank you for that information......
When I had picked up the car on it's last visit to the shop, the dealership gave me one of my FOB's that I had left in the previous loaner vehicle. I placed the FOB in the console and ran a few errands.....upon coming back to the car the touch wasn't functioning. After returning home later that night, I had forgotten that it was in the car and today removed it to find that the touch handle is working again...
Well that's one thing down.....we'll see on the rest.....
When I had picked up the car on it's last visit to the shop, the dealership gave me one of my FOB's that I had left in the previous loaner vehicle. I placed the FOB in the console and ran a few errands.....upon coming back to the car the touch wasn't functioning. After returning home later that night, I had forgotten that it was in the car and today removed it to find that the touch handle is working again...
Well that's one thing down.....we'll see on the rest.....
05-18-13, 09:53 PM
#10
lemon law in CA does in fact apply to used cars. I know, I had Lexus buy back a 2007 GS450h which I bought CPO in 2009 for unfixable rattles in the dashboard that made it sound like a old west wagon. It was under the original 4yr/50k as well as CPO. When I talked to them after a few times going through the process they eventually told me it was a "known defect" with the GS450h. I was like, why didn't you just tell me that up front?!?!? I was going cray cray! None of my 5 Lexi had ever done that.
Unfortunately in Utah the Lemon Law only applies to new cars:
http://consumerprotection.utah.gov/c...tomobiles.html
Unfortunately in Utah the Lemon Law only applies to new cars:
http://consumerprotection.utah.gov/c...tomobiles.html
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