nokobob

Maybe everybody's sick to death of this issue but I test drove three '08s at a local dealer today and heard some degree of wind noise (that I don't hear in my '02 LS 430) in all of them. When I asked the quite professional salesman about this he said more or less that it's just in design of the car and you're going to experience more wind noise than in an LS 430. The fact I heard some level of noise in all three seemed to support that statement but then again if a car salesman told me it was 2011 I'd run for a calendar.

cmasten

I have an 07 and did apply Jeffs fix, but that was purely proactive. I never had the wind noise and would say its easily as quiet as any LS 400s or LS 430s I have driven in. They are all very quiet cars on the highway.

If you experienced this with all 08s I wonder if its unique to that year, maybe a bad seal or something within the assembly that isnt right? Interesting stuff.

marky2mark

I have one of the early 08's that still has the single pane Temperlite windows. The later 08's and forward have the double pane Lamisafe windows. When I take my car in next month I'm going to ask to have the TSB applied to change out the windows. I also did the JMc triangle fix which helped a bit.

Next time you check out an 08 look at the corner of the glass and see if it says Temperlite or Lamisafe. Also the amount of noise probably depends on how the seal is on the triangle piece and if any air is getting in there.

Silverpaws

I have factory Lamisafe windows on my 08 and wind noise is not an issue. If it is unusually windy outside, I can hear wind occasionally but it is not bothersome.

nokobob

So folks have had fewer problems with the Lamisafe windows? Didn't notice what the windows where on the 3 I drove today

jmcraney

I would like to point out again the relationship of "noise in noise." For example, if the single pane windows noise level was 130 dB(A) and the triangle trim defect noise level was 130 dB(A), the combined noise level would be 133 dB(A). So, if you repaired the trim but not the windows, then the noise level would be reduced 3 dB and for most humans a 3 dB step change of noise is just barely perceptible. From a human perception aspect the conventional doubling of halving of noise is 10 dB. In other words, when "pink noise" is reduced or increased 10 dB, as measured with a meter, most people perceive that as halved or doubled.

Although we don't know much about the singular noise level contributions of the trim defect and the single pane windows, repairs of both have been reported to be effective. So, if both are significant noise contributors then the order of repair would probably lead to the false conclusion that the last one repaired was the cause of the noise. I am confident that both the single pane windows and the trim are noise contributors and that repair of both will give a significant improvement and the singular improvement of either may not be detectible.

nokobob

As a former Technical Staff Member of the Los Alamos National Laboratory let me offer the view that Mssr. Craney knows his stuff. Many thanks for your analysis.

cmasten

I have the single pain and no noise, there are others here that have switched and noticed no difference. I dont think its the glass. There are a few that have made the switch and it did get better, but who knows what actually improved it.

marky2mark

It could also have something to do with the seals. When they swap the windows I think they do the window seals too.

I don't mind if the switch doesn't make it better, as long as it doesn't get any worse...

jmcraney

cmasten,

You are one of the respected contributors here and your inputs are valued and appreciated by many, including me.

As for your perception that your car has no noise, that is probably subjective. I expect that your car would be quieter if you had the windows retrofitted with the Lamisafe glass. I truly believe that Lexus would not have gone to all that expense if they didn't have some very solid engineering data that the thicker windows significantly reduce the noise. I know I have not always espoused that view but after some thought about how those decisions are made I just know that it helps and can be demonstrated with instrumentation.

cmasten

Thank you Jeff, my opinion is actually based on about a dozen trips to my neighbors office, who is a Doctor. I helped him set up some audio/visual and communications at a new facility and we would alternate between my 07 and his 10. This was about 15 miles, with 5 miles of it surface streets and 10 miles of it highway (70+ mph). In the end we both agreed that there was no perceptive difference between the two vehicles, all things considered. Like yourself my back ground is in acoustic, electrical and audio/video engineering. It would be realistic to believe that two panes of glass would provide more acoustic insulation than one, but I am not hearing a difference on either the drivers or passengers side in either a 2010 or my 2007. I know how acoustic energy can transfer and all it takes is the smallest of gaps in the mirror assembly to transfer that into the door and then into the cabin, but I am not personally convinced that acoustic energy from the glass is significantly making the difference that people hear when they have wind noise issues. I have not done as much research on the subject as yourself, so I have to humbly just submit my opinion, albiet it a professional one.

As I recall your fix was based largely on the "gap" that existed because the adhesive did not seal the triangular area in the corner of the window, taking that all out and resealing it, along with the metal tab provided a good seal, but my seals were all very good and I did not have a noise issue, I did your fix to keep it from becoming a probem in the event that the foam seals would deteriorate.

I guess none of this really matters, in that we either have an issue which is based on many points (perception being one the biggest) the glass fitting, the seals in the door and mirror assembly, the seals in the corner of the window etc that all could contribute to the final effect. To my trained ears I dont hear any perceptive difference in energy transfer at 70mph on the freeway between my 07 or my neighbors 10. His seats are a bit better through :-)

jmcraney

We've discussed a lot of things here, but nobody answered your question. Your observation is consistent with reports that I have seen form others. Several individuals have said that they have test driven several cars while shopping for a used car and that they only occasionally encountered one that didn't have the wind noise problem.

Although there are several different causes of wind noise in these cars, the vast majority is the result of a trim defect on the front doors. There is a DIY "Wind-noise-ectomy" procedure that has given good results for many. Check here: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls4...noise-fix.html

Back in '08 I went around a dealership new car lot and looked at the triangle trim and did the percussion test on several cars. Three out of four cars had loose triangle trim and that is a direct, and accurate, predictor of wind noise.

iceburg

Anyone have a link to this pdf? I've been collecting them ever since I bought my '08 about six months ago, but I don't recall seeing this one.

cheers

jmcraney

This is only applicable to 2007 and early 2008 LS460 SWB models.

http://www.lambros.net/LexusTechInfo...L-NV009-07.pdf

iceburg

Ah, that's why I don't have it for my LWB. thanks