LS460 AWD Jerking on low speed
07-18-11, 05:06 AM
#47
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LS 460 SWB AWD Hesitation
Thanks for all the feedback since my recent post. It would appear that the "Normal Operating Characteristic" (hesitation/pulsing) is not the norm for all Lexus LS460 AWD, SWB cars. I am following the Ohio Lemon Law procedure by submitting the documentation to the National Center for Dispute Settlement in Mt Clemens, Mi.
It is interesting to note that the local Lexus Dealer acknowledged the problem as recently as 7-11-11, but states on their service invoice that Lexus Technical Assistance has not determined a solution.
BTW, I am not making outrageous demands - all I asked Lexus Corporate for was a LS460- 2010 or newer, AWD or RWD - that does not have the problem even if there is a price difference for model and miles driven on current LS.
I will also note that my second car is a 1967 Corvette convertible, 300HP, 4spd. I do have just a hint of a "flat spot" as the Holley carb becomes more fully engaged from a standing start, BUT, there is no hesitation in any of the four gears.
It is interesting to note that the local Lexus Dealer acknowledged the problem as recently as 7-11-11, but states on their service invoice that Lexus Technical Assistance has not determined a solution.
BTW, I am not making outrageous demands - all I asked Lexus Corporate for was a LS460- 2010 or newer, AWD or RWD - that does not have the problem even if there is a price difference for model and miles driven on current LS.
I will also note that my second car is a 1967 Corvette convertible, 300HP, 4spd. I do have just a hint of a "flat spot" as the Holley carb becomes more fully engaged from a standing start, BUT, there is no hesitation in any of the four gears.
Last edited by corvettesa; 07-18-11 at 05:20 AM.
09-01-12, 11:21 PM
#51
Moderator
No issues on my 2008 600hL..but I have a CVT so I suppose that hunting gear issue would not be able to occur.. hopefully a resolution for you all will happen soon..
09-03-12, 06:25 AM
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LS 460 Transmission
My experience with the LS 460 AWD SB was posted earlier; however for convenience, here it is again. After loosing at mediation (even though the Lexus Representation admitted there is a pulsing "characteristic", it was determined as normal) a third party instructed me to switch the ride-control on the center console to normal - not sport or comfort. Positioning the control in the middle position has made the pulsing less noticeable.
12-16-12, 10:52 AM
#53
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I have just had this TSB applied to my 2011 LS and I am feeling pretty confident that this finally fixes the AWD transmission vibration problem. On inclines at speeds around 60 MPH under slight acceleration I would get quite severe vibration that was even noticeable to passengers. After this TSB was applied I could not detect any vibration.
I think I need take more time to be sure this is a permanent fix because when I first picked up this 2011 I could not feel any vibration but after about 4000 miles the car was vibrating worse than my 2009. I suspect that this was a result of changes to the transmissions's shifting algorithm after "learning" my driving behavior.
But if this fix does work it will have solved a problem that has plagued my ownership experience since June 2010.
Many thanks again to Road Rage for first posting this TSB
I think I need take more time to be sure this is a permanent fix because when I first picked up this 2011 I could not feel any vibration but after about 4000 miles the car was vibrating worse than my 2009. I suspect that this was a result of changes to the transmissions's shifting algorithm after "learning" my driving behavior.
But if this fix does work it will have solved a problem that has plagued my ownership experience since June 2010.
Many thanks again to Road Rage for first posting this TSB
12-18-12, 07:09 PM
#55
I tried to replicate this in my 2009 AWD. I have several on-ramps and hills that I drive daily and I just couldn't get the car to jerk or hesitate...even once. I hope it never happens to me. Good luck.
01-10-13, 12:00 PM
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It's a relief to find that others have had this same problem. I have owned a 2010 LS-460L AWD, purchased brand new, for over 2 years. It has the "shuddering" problem and it has greatly tainted my ownership experience, to the point where I have started looking at other brands.
When I bought the 2010 LS, I had come from owning several RWD LS-460s previously. They were all fine. So I noticed the problem right away when I test drove the car. Unfortunately, I mistakenly concluded that it was due to the road surface, almost as if I were driving over a washboard.
The problem, if anything, has gotten worse, as I approach the 23K miles mark. When going up a slight or moderate incline, generally with even pedal pressure, the car bucks, or shudders. Off-ramps often highlight the shuddering sensation, too. I believe that the torque converter, as many of you have concluded in your situations, is at fault.
One of you mentioned that changing between Normal, Sport, or Comfort modes helps. This is not true in my case. The problem occurs in all modes.
Additionally, and perhaps unrelated, are the circumstances where I need to accelerate quickly and the torque converter seems to slam into place after initial hesitation. This causes the engine to surge initially; then, when the torque converter smacks into place, the car finally decides to move down the road as it should.
Having owned numerous Lexus cars over the past 20 years, I couldn't be more disappointed. As someone else said in this forum, it is disgraceful that a car of this price/class would have this type of problem.
I must admit that I had little confidence in Lexus when I asked my dealer to look into it, approximately 6 months after I first notice the problem. They "didn't notice it," they said. That's the answer I expected. I've not sought any type of relief from them since. My strategy has been to get back to the RWD, with which I had no problems. Plus, I was anxious to gain back the extra horsepower that comes with the RWD. (I noticed no improvement, by the way, with the AWD in the snow or on ice. It doesn't seem to help at all. The RWD was just as good at handling poor road conditions.) When I try to discuss the problem with my sales rep, he pretty much says nothing. I've asked him if others have complained about such things, and he replied "no."
I live in Maryland, and the dealer has told me that Lexus is building the 2013 LS models almost completely with AWD, or at least that pretty much only the AWD would be available in our area. That is, the RWD cars will be very scarce. I may have to special-order a RWD car, he said.
When I bought the 2010 LS, I had come from owning several RWD LS-460s previously. They were all fine. So I noticed the problem right away when I test drove the car. Unfortunately, I mistakenly concluded that it was due to the road surface, almost as if I were driving over a washboard.
The problem, if anything, has gotten worse, as I approach the 23K miles mark. When going up a slight or moderate incline, generally with even pedal pressure, the car bucks, or shudders. Off-ramps often highlight the shuddering sensation, too. I believe that the torque converter, as many of you have concluded in your situations, is at fault.
One of you mentioned that changing between Normal, Sport, or Comfort modes helps. This is not true in my case. The problem occurs in all modes.
Additionally, and perhaps unrelated, are the circumstances where I need to accelerate quickly and the torque converter seems to slam into place after initial hesitation. This causes the engine to surge initially; then, when the torque converter smacks into place, the car finally decides to move down the road as it should.
Having owned numerous Lexus cars over the past 20 years, I couldn't be more disappointed. As someone else said in this forum, it is disgraceful that a car of this price/class would have this type of problem.
I must admit that I had little confidence in Lexus when I asked my dealer to look into it, approximately 6 months after I first notice the problem. They "didn't notice it," they said. That's the answer I expected. I've not sought any type of relief from them since. My strategy has been to get back to the RWD, with which I had no problems. Plus, I was anxious to gain back the extra horsepower that comes with the RWD. (I noticed no improvement, by the way, with the AWD in the snow or on ice. It doesn't seem to help at all. The RWD was just as good at handling poor road conditions.) When I try to discuss the problem with my sales rep, he pretty much says nothing. I've asked him if others have complained about such things, and he replied "no."
I live in Maryland, and the dealer has told me that Lexus is building the 2013 LS models almost completely with AWD, or at least that pretty much only the AWD would be available in our area. That is, the RWD cars will be very scarce. I may have to special-order a RWD car, he said.
Last edited by edendw; 01-10-13 at 12:09 PM.
01-10-13, 12:15 PM
#57
Pole Position
My 2009 AWD has been flawless, knock on burled walnut. That being said, the dealer in Florida told my father the same thing you said...that the cars down there all come with only RWD but the cars up here come only with AWD. That being said, you should be able to ORDER whatever you want from ANY dealer. So either go south if you wanna "buy it now" or order locally.
01-10-13, 02:16 PM
#58
Lexus Test Driver
It may be a wider Toyota problem with AWD. I just came back from the dealer with my 2011 AWD Toyota Sienna that has the same symptoms and they refuse to acknowledge it
Of course my 92 LS was always smoove as butter
Of course my 92 LS was always smoove as butter
01-10-13, 05:24 PM
#59
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It's a relief to find that others have had this same problem. I have owned a 2010 LS-460L AWD, purchased brand new, for over 2 years. It has the "shuddering" problem and it has greatly tainted my ownership experience, to the point where I have started looking at other brands.
When I bought the 2010 LS, I had come from owning several RWD LS-460s previously. They were all fine. So I noticed the problem right away when I test drove the car. Unfortunately, I mistakenly concluded that it was due to the road surface, almost as if I were driving over a washboard.
The problem, if anything, has gotten worse, as I approach the 23K miles mark. When going up a slight or moderate incline, generally with even pedal pressure, the car bucks, or shudders. Off-ramps often highlight the shuddering sensation, too. I believe that the torque converter, as many of you have concluded in your situations, is at fault.
One of you mentioned that changing between Normal, Sport, or Comfort modes helps. This is not true in my case. The problem occurs in all modes.
Additionally, and perhaps unrelated, are the circumstances where I need to accelerate quickly and the torque converter seems to slam into place after initial hesitation. This causes the engine to surge initially; then, when the torque converter smacks into place, the car finally decides to move down the road as it should.
....
When I bought the 2010 LS, I had come from owning several RWD LS-460s previously. They were all fine. So I noticed the problem right away when I test drove the car. Unfortunately, I mistakenly concluded that it was due to the road surface, almost as if I were driving over a washboard.
The problem, if anything, has gotten worse, as I approach the 23K miles mark. When going up a slight or moderate incline, generally with even pedal pressure, the car bucks, or shudders. Off-ramps often highlight the shuddering sensation, too. I believe that the torque converter, as many of you have concluded in your situations, is at fault.
One of you mentioned that changing between Normal, Sport, or Comfort modes helps. This is not true in my case. The problem occurs in all modes.
Additionally, and perhaps unrelated, are the circumstances where I need to accelerate quickly and the torque converter seems to slam into place after initial hesitation. This causes the engine to surge initially; then, when the torque converter smacks into place, the car finally decides to move down the road as it should.
....
However I have never experienced the Torque converter "slam" behavior you mention so this TSB might not fix it. But for the AWD vibration I recommend you get to your dealer right away with this TSB.
I have been waiting to put about 1000 miles on my car since the TSB because when I got the new 460 it did not have any vibrations. (I spent a full day road testing up and down hills/mountains and never noticed the problem. Then after about 500 miles it appeared. I suspect this might be due to the transmission ability to "Learn" a drivers driving patterns. So while this still might reappear I am hoping that 900 miles is a good test.
If you do get the TSB done please post your results so others can learn from it.
01-14-13, 05:59 AM
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Pulsing-hesitation
As a result of the TSB being posted on this forum, I had the dealer make the adjustments to my 2010 LS460 AWD. The result to date has been positive - the pulsing-hesitation has 98% disappeared. I have only driven about 500 since the TSB fix was applied , so additional miles will confirm the fix.
BTW, my chasing a fix included, the dealer acknowledging the problem, factory technical team examining the car for a full day and arbitration concluding that it was as they termed it "A normal operating characteristic". All this before the posting of the TSB on this Forum.
A Big Thank you to whomever posted the TSB.
BTW, my chasing a fix included, the dealer acknowledging the problem, factory technical team examining the car for a full day and arbitration concluding that it was as they termed it "A normal operating characteristic". All this before the posting of the TSB on this Forum.
A Big Thank you to whomever posted the TSB.