LS - 4th Gen (2007-2017) Discussion topics related to the current flagship models LS460, LS460L and LS600H

My LS460 MPG Experiment

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 05-15-08, 05:58 PM
  #46  
Mike_TX
Lexus Test Driver
 
Mike_TX's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: TX
Posts: 1,155
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by vollandt
Mike_TX, all this assumes that timing isn't adjusted properly to match the fuel. I see no evidence of this with my LS460 - I never get any hesitation or power loss, and my highway mileage is as good or better than the top figures posted on this site,
I would agree your points if the timing system over compensated by over retarding the timing. I am sure this is the case with many cars. If it were the case with my LS460, I would expect to take a significant power and mileage hit.

Bottom line, it’s no accident my car runs as well on regular as it does on premium, it was designed to adjust properly to the type of fuel being used.
I submit that if the engine weren't designed for premium fuel only, it wouldn't say "Use Premium Fuel Only" on the gas filler door and in the owner's manual. Otherwise, it might say "Use Premium Fuel if You Want To, or Just Use Regular".

The power losses are probably not noticeable to you, since the engine makes 380hp (on Premium), and you probably don't ever use but a relatively small percentage of those horsies. But that doesn't mean the engine isn't straining to run on Regular.

I of course don't mind your using Regular gas in your car, since I'm not going to be buying it when you're done with it. I merely said that I personally wouldn't use anything but Premium in MY car. But that's just my opinion, and anyone is free to disagree ...

.
.
Old 05-15-08, 08:08 PM
  #47  
clemgrad85
Pole Position
 
clemgrad85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SC
Posts: 225
Received 15 Likes on 6 Posts
Default

I have been trying to get the straight answer on this premium vs regular gas for a long time. One source seems to say one thing, and then I'll find another source that says another. I have a friend who owns over 30 Exxon stations and he swears to me the premium is superior (but yes, that is what I would expect him to say). I'll call him to get him to explain again why he feels the premium is better.

The only proof I have that premium is better relates to a '83 BMW 320IS that I had back in the 80s. I was about to drop some big bucks on fixing the engine as it was stalling on me shortly after starting it. I had tried some minor fixes, but the mechanic(s) finally said I was going to have to have some major engine repair. I had been using either regular or the middle grade gas (been a while), and as a last resort I filled up with Premium gas a couple of days before I was to take the car in and "poof", the stalling stopped and I never had any further problems with it. Crazy...but true. Ever since then, I have used the Premium grade with all my vehicles. I will say, my wife uses the middle grade but she never checks gas mileage and we've never had any engine problems with her cars.

Anyway....I use premium and will continue to until I get definitive proof that it does no better than the other grades. Just my 2 cents.
Old 05-16-08, 05:32 AM
  #48  
luxury1
Lexus Test Driver
 
luxury1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: US: Northeast
Posts: 1,031
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

Can someone help me understand why gas prices are going through the roof? I can understand an increase in prices but the increase has been dramatic that it doesn't make sense. Is it that supply is being artificially capped? There are more cars on the road than there were two years ago but I don't think that this is the reason. I just don't understand this.
Old 05-16-08, 06:10 AM
  #49  
jlawr
Lead Lap
 
jlawr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: TX
Posts: 620
Likes: 0
Received 21 Likes on 14 Posts
Default

One reason could be: you go to war and disrupt the flow of oil from that country and then after the war is declared "won," you stay in that country and have your planes, tanks and humvees burn up the oil that's still on the market at thousands of gallons per hour.
Old 05-16-08, 08:40 AM
  #50  
Mike_TX
Lexus Test Driver
 
Mike_TX's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: TX
Posts: 1,155
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by luxury1
Can someone help me understand why gas prices are going through the roof? I can understand an increase in prices but the increase has been dramatic that it doesn't make sense. Is it that supply is being artificially capped? There are more cars on the road than there were two years ago but I don't think that this is the reason. I just don't understand this.
Well, it ain't about tanks and hummers. The *serious* answer is three-fold:

1. We're held hostage by the nations (and cartels, like OPEC) who produce oil, because our government won't let us drill for our own oil.

2. Speculators (futures traders) have run up the price by contracting to buy future production at inflated prices, because they hope to sell it for even more than they paid. If you figure oil might sell for $160 a barrel in a few months, and cut a deal to buy several million barrels next month for $150 a barrel (giving you a $10 a barrel profit), that pretty much SETS the price close to $150.

3. Oil (at least for us) is bought in U.S. Dollars, and the Dollar is weak right now compared to many other currencies. That means that it takes MORE of those Dollars to buy the same barrel of oil. The world oil price isn't a lot higher than it was a year or two ago, our Dollar is just worth so much less that it takes more of them to buy it.

Okay, so why is the dollar weak? A lot of the blame goes to the sub-prime mortgage fiasco, which damaged the economy and forced the Fed to lower interest rates to the point no one wants to invest in the U.S. Dollar. Until we can get interest rates back up and thereby strengthen the Dollar, we'll have to pay inflated prices for other people's oil.

.
.
Old 05-16-08, 09:55 AM
  #51  
daryll40
Pole Position
Thread Starter
 
daryll40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,008
Received 409 Likes on 282 Posts
Default

This should not become a politics forum. That being said, some econoweenies MIGHT say gas prices are so high because we insist on owning 16 MPG luxobarges and instead of Priuses! And that if EVERYONE drove a Prius blah blah blah...
Old 05-16-08, 10:41 AM
  #52  
sa3ad_460
Driver School Candidate
 
sa3ad_460's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: ksa
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

lol all we got here is 95 octane
$0,60
Old 05-16-08, 10:51 AM
  #53  
Johnny
Pole Position
 
Johnny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sakon Nakhon
Posts: 2,730
Likes: 0
Received 20 Likes on 16 Posts
Default

Simple and straightforward answer: C-H-I-N-A & I-N-D-I-A

Everything else is idle speculation...
Old 05-16-08, 01:13 PM
  #54  
Mike_TX
Lexus Test Driver
 
Mike_TX's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: TX
Posts: 1,155
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by daryll40
This should not become a politics forum. That being said, some econoweenies MIGHT say gas prices are so high because we insist on owning 16 MPG luxobarges and instead of Priuses! And that if EVERYONE drove a Prius blah blah blah...
I hope my answer didn't come across as political, since it's really just an "economist's" view.

If we could somehow correct the Dollar back to even 2005 levels, oil would be about $75 a barrel. Back then, a Dollar would almost buy a Pound Sterling, for instance, but now it takes 2 Dollars to buy one. The Canadian Dollar cost about 70 cents then, but now it's about $1.10. And so on. So we're buying $75/barrel oil for $125. today.

It isn't political - it's just economic reality. Currencies fluctuate against each other, and ours is down right now. I do believe the speculators are adding to the problem, though, as are the Wall Street houses who keep predicting $200 oil and fueling that speculation!

It'll blow over when the banks get back on an even keel.

.
.
Old 05-16-08, 01:27 PM
  #55  
daryll40
Pole Position
Thread Starter
 
daryll40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,008
Received 409 Likes on 282 Posts
Default

Even at $75/bbl, that's still more than 3X the price of 6 years ago. Close to 4x. Seems like a bubble to me.
Old 05-16-08, 01:49 PM
  #56  
Mike_TX
Lexus Test Driver
 
Mike_TX's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: TX
Posts: 1,155
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by daryll40
Even at $75/bbl, that's still more than 3X the price of 6 years ago. Close to 4x. Seems like a bubble to me.
You are correct. Here's a nice history for everyone:


(Courtesy WTRG Economics)

The big climb started after 9/11, aggravated by strikes, the war, growth in Asia and the weakening Dollar.

This may seem off-topic to some, but it's important to know what's behind gas prices and how it affects us and our beloved cars.

(BTW, the prices on this chart are Dollar-denominated, and the chart would look a little different if Euro- or DM- or Yen-denominated.)

.
.
Old 05-16-08, 02:17 PM
  #57  
clemgrad85
Pole Position
 
clemgrad85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SC
Posts: 225
Received 15 Likes on 6 Posts
Default

And part of the problem is many countries subsidize the price of gas. In other words, you have some countries like China, India, etc....where the price of gas is artificially held down by the government and so those using the gasoline don't realize it has gone up that much. Once these countries have to cut back on these subsidies, and the price is passed on to their consumers, they will start to cut back on using the gas and the demand will hopefully decrease. I agree with Mike on his comments, but this is yet another piece of the puzzle.
Old 05-16-08, 05:06 PM
  #58  
luxury1
Lexus Test Driver
 
luxury1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: US: Northeast
Posts: 1,031
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

That really helps a lot guys. Thanks for helping me understand!!!
Old 05-19-08, 03:12 PM
  #59  
daryll40
Pole Position
Thread Starter
 
daryll40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,008
Received 409 Likes on 282 Posts
Default

My latest tank averaged 16.9 miles/gallon on about 350 miles using 87 octane. I will run one more tank of 87 (it will be the 4th tank in a row) then NEXT TIME fill it up with 93 octane for a few tankfuls to compare.

So far you guys who predicted that the mileage would not be that much less than all premium all the time seem to be correct.
Old 05-22-08, 05:42 AM
  #60  
vollandt
Driver
 
vollandt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: new york
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I found this article on Yahoo.

by Peter Valdes-Dapena
Thursday, May 15, 2008

Sure you want to save gas, but there's a lot of bad advice on how to do it. Some of it makes no difference, and some of it can wind up costing you.
With gasoline prices hitting record levels, it seems everyone has a tip on how to save fuel. Much of the advice is well-intentioned, but in the end, much of it won't lower your gas bill.
Here's a look at a few misconceptions:
#1. Fill Your Tank in the Morning
You may have heard that it's best to fill your gas tank in the early morning while the fuel is cold. The theory goes that fluids are more dense at lower temperatures, so a gallon of cold gas actually has more gas molecules than a gallon of warmer gas.
But the temperature of the gasoline as it comes out of the nozzle varies little during the course of the day, according to Consumer Reports, so there's little, if any, benefit, to getting up early to pump gas.
#2. Change Your Air Filter
Maintaining your car is important, but a clean air filter isn't going to save you any gas. Modern engines have computer sensors that automatically adjust the fuel-air mixture as an increasingly clogged air filter chokes off the engine's air supply.
While engine power will decrease slightly as the air filter becomes clogged, a lack of performance or an increase in fuel consumption will be negligible, Consumer Reports says.
#3. Use Premium Fuel
With prices already over $4.00 a gallon, premium gasoline is a hard sell these days. But a lot of drivers think because their owners' manual recommends premium, they'll get better fuel economy if they stick with it. Really, they're paying more money for nothing.
Even cars for which premium is recommended won't suffer with regular fuel. Modern engine technology comes to the rescue again. When sensors detect regular instead of premium fuel, the system automatically adjusts spark plug timing. The result is a slight reduction in peak horsepower - really, you'll never notice - but no reduction in fuel economy.
#4. Pump Up Your Tires
Proper tire inflation is important for a number of reasons. Under-inflated tires are bad for handling and can even cause a crash. Improper tire inflation also causes tires to wear out faster and to heat up more, which could trigger a dangerous high-speed blow-out.
According to on-the-road driving tests by both Consumer Reports and auto information site Edmunds.com, underinflated tires reduce fuel economy, so proper inflation is key.
But you should never over-inflate your tires. They'll get you slightly better fuel economy because there will be less tread touching the road, reducing friction. But that means less grip for braking and turning. The added risk of a crash isn't worth the extra mile a gallon you might gain.
#5. To A/C or Not A/C
There's no question air-conditioning makes extra work for the engine, increasing fuel use. But car air conditioners are much more efficient today than they used to be. In around-town driving, using the A/C will drop fuel economy by about a mile a gallon.
Meanwhile, driving at higher speeds with the windows down greatly increases aerodynamic drag. As speed increases, drag becomes more of an issue, making A/C use the more efficient choice at high speeds.
At most speeds and in most vehicles, A/C use drains slightly more fuel than driving with the windows down, contends David Champion, head of auto testing for Consumer Reports. "My final take on is that it's very close," says Phil Reed, consumer advice editor for Edmunds.com. "It's hard to measure the difference and every vehicle is different."
The best choice - if temperature and humidity allow - is to keep the windows rolled up and to turn the A/C compressor off. You can keep the fans running to blow in air from the outside, but your car will be as aerodynamic as possible while still letting you breathe. You will save gas, but the fuel economy improvement will be slight.
#6. Bolt-Ons and Pour-Ins
Before you buy a device that's supposed to make your car more fuel-efficient or pour in an allegedly gas-saving additive, ask yourself this: Don't you think oil and car companies aren't doing everything they can to beat their competitors?
If BP could add something to its gasoline that made cars go farther on a gallon, cars would be lining up at the company's pumps. Sure, people would burn their fuel-saving BP gas more slowly, but then they'd drive right past rivals' gas stations to come back to BP for more. BP stations could even charge more for their gas and still sell tons of the stuff.
So if there really was an additive that made gas burn up more slowly, it wouldn't be sold over the Internet one bottle at a time.
Likewise, car companies are already spending big bucks to increase fuel mileage. If General Motors could make its cars go significantly farther on a gallon simply by putting a device into the fuel line, don't think for a second it wouldn't be doing that. GM's car sales would go through the roof.
"There are a number of these gas-saving devices that are generally useless," says Champion.
But drivers who try them will swear they work. In reality, it's probably an automotive placebo effect, says Reed. Buy one of these devices or additives, and you're like to pay extreme attention to your fuel economy and how you drive.
Of course it can't hurt to keep a close eye on your driving habits -- and what kind of car you drive. In the end, that can make the most difference in saving gas.
Copyrighted, CNNMoney. All Rights Reserved.


Quick Reply: My LS460 MPG Experiment



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:07 AM.