Johnny

Strange. "Sunroof drain hoses need repositioned (sic) and end caps installed." First time I've heard of wind noise coming from the sunroof drain hoses. Especially when the customer stated clearly "Check wind noise coming from the window/door area". Sounds like they are not up to speed on this issue...

Jamminx

No change in road noise at all. I have no idea what end caps are. I also didn't know that the drain hose for the sunroof is near the driver front window. I'm not sure its worth taking it back. I may have to try the fix on my own.

jmcraney

If anyone is doubting the potential for the Triangle Trim Problem to occur in the LS600, the following article may be evidence that it does. Look at the third paragraph from the bottom. I realize that this article appears to be stale but this car and some of its siblings are probably still rolling around somewhere.

http://www.canada.com/saskatoonstarp...9-8a0a96892060

If you have done a lot of Internet searches on wind noise you will know that with almost no exceptions the professional reviewers say "wind noise is nonexistent" in the LS460s and LS600s. I don't know what that tells us - maybe the Canadians are different, probably that clean air they breathe hones their senses. Burnaby, that is intended as a compliment.

I came across the following post on another review site:

Quote:
I purchased a 2007 LS 460 in December after really enjoying my LS 430. I would concur with many of the postings about how the shifting is not as smooth as the 430, but it is offset by other attributes. Where I am having a big problem is with wind noise. One of the things I have valued in all of my Lexus' has been how quiet they are. When I went in for my 6000 mile service and brought this to the dealer's attention, he told me it was due to a design flaw with the side mirrors. Recently a business acquaintence told me a friend of his had a similar problem and after testing four more cars, finally found one without the problem. Has anyone else experienced this and if so, what action did you take?
End Quote

In a previous post I told you about my "car thumping" experience at a local dealership where I found three out of four cars would probably have the problem. I think the above quote adds some impetus to my contention that this is a widespread problem.

I sense that newcomers to this discussion don't realize that it has a long tail and that some of the real meat is near the beginning. For those of you just joining us, you should read all of this discussion, beginning at page 1, because there is a lot of helpful information throughout.

I can tell by the view count that a lot of people are watching this. I urge any of you who have experience with the triangle trim fix, good or bad, to share your information with us.

bsims_01

I realize that this thread has had a long life, but I'd like to offer some feedback after performing jmcraney's fix last weekend. I never felt that my '07 SWB had the severe wind noise that others have complained about. Nevertheless, I could definitely hear a swooshing noise around the window at highway speed.

First off, I must say that it was an exceedingly simple procedure to remove the plastic triangles and silicone them back on. It took me less than 1/2 hour including removal of as much double-sided tape residue as possible.

Yesterday, I took the car on the freeway for the first time since the repair. The difference in noise levels was immediately apparent. Much quieter overall and virtually no swooshing noise. Now I only hear what I consider normal wind buffeting on the exterior of the car.

Is the noise completely eliminated? I can't say for sure. But in my opinion, the repair reduced the noise level around the window by 70% or so. With the amount of time and money involved, this one is a no-brainer.

Once again, this forum has proven to be a tremendous resource for issues that have come up since purchasing my new LS last August. I enjoy the car more and more everday. Keep up the good work!!

garyr

JM.....That article is unbelievable that they singled the wind noise out in that write up. After your fix and 3k miles so far I love this car again. Still quiet like the car should have been from day one.

I don't understand the posts people that are doing the fix that don't have them problem and than reporting, to each his own I guess.

rogersmith

Very impressive piece of troubleshooting and analysis. Excellent documentation. I also find it neat that a board member figured it out while Lexus was busy messing about in different directions.

Rog

bluebeauty

What is TSIB?

jmcraney

Some of the 07 and 08 LS460s and LS600s have the defect involving the triangle trim on the front doors. To the best of my knowledge, Lexus is neither acknowledging or voluntarily fixing this problem. Manifestations of this problem vary from slight to extreme, left or right or bilateral.

I sense that Lexus has an active campaign to deter any dealers, worldwide, from doing the fix that I suggested.

Has anyone been able to get a "triangle trim fix" done at a dealership other than "garyr" (see reply #173 in this discussion thread)?

And, if you have been able to get your car fixed at a dealer, what is the TSIB#? And was the dealer fix satisfactory?

Johnny

I believe Lexus only "generates" a TSIB when they go through their internal protocols (technical or political). If a customer pushes the dealer hard enough, he/she will gets results that may not necessarily require or involve a TSIB, but can be handled as a warranty item - where most complaints end up anyway. As for the triangle fix, I believe it has made it way up the chain of command, but some engineer or department head may have swept it under the carpet for now.

I haven't done mine yet (because it doesn't bug me that much and I don't do a lot of highway driving, but I have the silicone and plastic scraper ready. I know it will work because as I reported earlier, there is still a draft-like whooshing sound coming from that corner at highway speeds. I have read that this phenomena is especially common in cars that don't have fixed mirrors, which makes sense, and that all the car manufacturers are spending a lot of time and energy trying to "design" their way out of this recurring headache due to the large volume of complaints - which may explain why the triangle fix has been relegated to the back burner.

astrotoy

I did the Jim Craney fix this morning. It was very easy for me - not a DIY person who wouldn't even change oil in a car. It took less than 30 minutes including a drive down to the hardware store to buy the GE Silicone sealant. I didn't need a putty knife to pry the triangle off, I used my fingers and very slowly pulled the triangle away from the door facing the rear of the car, about 1/2 inch. Then I stuck a small screwdriver to punch holes in the double sided foam tape holding the triangle to the car to loosen the triangle. From then it was easy to remove the triangle. The sealant had cured by this evening, so we just went out for a ride. The car is quite a bit quieter, even though I had not been bothered by any wind noise. With it so quiet, I can now hear the engine noise coming from below the glove box when the a/c fan is turned off and the car in in park- it sounds very much like the a/c sound. When the a/c is on, it masks the engine noise. External noises are diminished to the point that they are much more difficult to hear. Thanks, Jim.

bc07

It has been almost three months since I completed jmcraney's wind noise fix. Prior to completeing the fix the wind noise from the passenger side front door was always there, particulaly at higher speeds and in headwinds. It was always somewhat irritating. Today my LS 460 is at least as quiet (I believe more so) than my LS 400. It is a pleasure to drive and the wind noise problem is becoming a distant memory. If you have a wind noise problem and the TSIB repairs have not ended it I highly recommend that you take the small amount of time and effort required to complete the fix. Thank you JMCraney for sharing your insight and solutions.

PatsSoxfan

jmcraney, I had the triangle trim fix done at my dealer several months ago. They game me no hassle at all in doing so. However, I was not satisfied with the results. I have a feeling that they did not follow the exact instructions (from you). I then tried it myself several weeks later with mixed results. I don't think I applied enough sealant on the driver's side. So, a few weeks after that, I tried it again. This time the results were good. I am now quite pleased. The exterior noise in general and the wind swishing sound in particular are considerably reduced. You are definitely THE MAN. I don't understand why Lexus headquarters is SO stubborn about this easy fix.

Patric

My experience with engineers suggests that they lack having much common sense. As such the Lexus engineers would likely not buy off on such a simple fix without an (engineered) solution.


Pat

CEOEngr

I take strong exception to that statement. You may be accurate with a few examples of morons and the probablity ratio of these type is no different then any other professional group. In this case I firmly that it is the Lexus lawyers for reasons pointed out by others on this site and especially within this thread.

Johnny

I'm an engineer as well (Mech.), and agree that the fault does not lie in that department, but probably as CEO has suggested, the fix may be bogged down, or has been redirected elsewhere. This forum circumvents the red tape and allows creative solutions to flourish for our mutual benefit, for our car now. Lexus could be working on their own solution, having evaluated ours for all we know. With their resources and vast experience, they can achieve similar outcomes, such as redesigning the mirror (which some point to as the real culprit), and adjacent area, albeit on future editions.

On a lighter note, if you stack all the engineers in this world head to toe, you'd never reach a conclusion...