Worst that can/does go wrong on the 430?
01-15-17, 01:27 PM
#16
Moderator
I'm a commuter and I find that this is a perfect commuter car, aside from mediocre gas mileage. It makes up for it in extreme comfort and pleasure to drive. I currently have to fill up the tank about once a week but that doesn't bother me much. All in all I don't mind the replacement of these mostly small parts here and there. Looking forward to hopefully many more miles to come.
01-15-17, 07:20 PM
#17
Pole Position
It sounds like OP had some bad luck. Her car is the only LS430 I've heard of that has had the transmission seal issues or a VVTi solenoid issue. Any one of those problems happening is rare, but two problems like that in the same car makes me wonder whether the car has been used vigorously by any of the owners.
Every thing else - VVTi solenoid, knock sensor, valve cover gasket is regular stuff that does break.
On one hand, these parts seem to last pretty long in our cars. On the other hand, we have more parts than most cars. We have twice as many valve cover gaskets as Corollas, we have 2x as many knock sensors as Prius cars, and some Toyotas don't have VVTi solenoids. You'd expect to see more of these problems in an LS430 than a simpler car just because there are more opportunities for these things to fail.
I don't think anyone claims that these cars never break - a la a 1987 Toyota truck without a single option. Just that these cars have a reputation for lasting for awhile, the bare minimum amount of stuff seems to go wrong with them given all the features they have, and they're usually among the least expensive 'nice' cars you can own. And when stuff does break, it's not a show stopper: VSC issues aren't going to ground you like a coilpack failure in a Mercedes.
You can further reduce the cost of ownership by performing the work yourself, my experience is that it's easier to work on these cars than german cars. But I'm tainted, 90% of the wrenches I turn are on other Japanese machines so I have some background in the paradigm. The best example I can give is the door lock actuator example.
My Lexus dealer wanted $800 to replace the door lock actuator.
An independent wanted $200 change the actuator with one from ebay.
I put in a $12 electric motor that fixed the issue with 3 hours of my time and it'd be 1.3 hours if I had to do it again.
If I didn't have the skill and time to do it on my own, I probably wouldn't find this car to be cost effective and I'd go get a 3rd gen Prius. And maybe as a fourm we need to do a better job of telling that to prospective owners - these cars are 'good deals' for people who want a luxury car but they're not 'good deals' for people trying to minimize costs.
The cars reward you for taking care of them and some people find the payoff worthy of the investment but others don't. They're in the neighborhood of Camry operating costs but they do cost more - probably 50%-100% more. But the competitors aren't even in the ball park, I don't know a single person who's driving a 200k mile S class, and I don't know of a single person who has a <$1000 year maintenance/repair budget for their 7er/A8/S-class. conversely, we start threads about leaking oil pans at 230k.
Every thing else - VVTi solenoid, knock sensor, valve cover gasket is regular stuff that does break.
On one hand, these parts seem to last pretty long in our cars. On the other hand, we have more parts than most cars. We have twice as many valve cover gaskets as Corollas, we have 2x as many knock sensors as Prius cars, and some Toyotas don't have VVTi solenoids. You'd expect to see more of these problems in an LS430 than a simpler car just because there are more opportunities for these things to fail.
I don't think anyone claims that these cars never break - a la a 1987 Toyota truck without a single option. Just that these cars have a reputation for lasting for awhile, the bare minimum amount of stuff seems to go wrong with them given all the features they have, and they're usually among the least expensive 'nice' cars you can own. And when stuff does break, it's not a show stopper: VSC issues aren't going to ground you like a coilpack failure in a Mercedes.
You can further reduce the cost of ownership by performing the work yourself, my experience is that it's easier to work on these cars than german cars. But I'm tainted, 90% of the wrenches I turn are on other Japanese machines so I have some background in the paradigm. The best example I can give is the door lock actuator example.
My Lexus dealer wanted $800 to replace the door lock actuator.
An independent wanted $200 change the actuator with one from ebay.
I put in a $12 electric motor that fixed the issue with 3 hours of my time and it'd be 1.3 hours if I had to do it again.
If I didn't have the skill and time to do it on my own, I probably wouldn't find this car to be cost effective and I'd go get a 3rd gen Prius. And maybe as a fourm we need to do a better job of telling that to prospective owners - these cars are 'good deals' for people who want a luxury car but they're not 'good deals' for people trying to minimize costs.
The cars reward you for taking care of them and some people find the payoff worthy of the investment but others don't. They're in the neighborhood of Camry operating costs but they do cost more - probably 50%-100% more. But the competitors aren't even in the ball park, I don't know a single person who's driving a 200k mile S class, and I don't know of a single person who has a <$1000 year maintenance/repair budget for their 7er/A8/S-class. conversely, we start threads about leaking oil pans at 230k.
01-16-17, 05:10 AM
#19
Lexus Fanatic
One of my issues is I'm not as equipped to deal with a failure on the LS430 as I am with my 335i. Since I have the dealer software for the 335i, I would always be able to know what the fault is on the car, no matter what it is, if I can fix it myself or not. With the Lexus, I have every intention of investing $35 for that OBDII reader, but I would imagine it would have some things that it cannot read, that maybe Techstream would. If the LS430 is fairly reliable, I don't want to invest in troubleshooting tools....so if my car were to suddenly die, I'd probably be caught towing it to the dealership with AAA Plus, and now my wallet is wide open. Anyway, so far, so good at 84k.....
01-16-17, 01:27 PM
#20
Pole Position
I can think of one repair you may have coming up that will cost you over $1,000...timing belt and water pump service.
I think the problem with the LS is that parts are just so expensive unless you can get aftermarket parts. I have the 460 and although it has basically been "bulletin proof", it still has had three things go wrong with it and it ended up costing more than it would with a "normal car". One thing was the heater blower motor, usually these things are $40-$120 bucks, but with the LS460 it was $260. I'm a master tech so I was able to install it myself, but if I had the dealer do it? $400-$500! And this was the only repair I needed in a year of driving (30,000 miles). In fact I've only needed to make three repairs in its life (145,000 miles), but because it's an LS it's expensive. Luckily most years I haven't had to do any repairs.
But I can tell you that I have had a Honda Accord, a car that is always considered "bulletin proof" have three times the amount of repairs at the same mileage point.
I think the problem with the LS is that parts are just so expensive unless you can get aftermarket parts. I have the 460 and although it has basically been "bulletin proof", it still has had three things go wrong with it and it ended up costing more than it would with a "normal car". One thing was the heater blower motor, usually these things are $40-$120 bucks, but with the LS460 it was $260. I'm a master tech so I was able to install it myself, but if I had the dealer do it? $400-$500! And this was the only repair I needed in a year of driving (30,000 miles). In fact I've only needed to make three repairs in its life (145,000 miles), but because it's an LS it's expensive. Luckily most years I haven't had to do any repairs.
But I can tell you that I have had a Honda Accord, a car that is always considered "bulletin proof" have three times the amount of repairs at the same mileage point.
01-16-17, 04:36 PM
#21
Lexus Fanatic
I can think of one repair you may have coming up that will cost you over $1,000...timing belt and water pump service.
I think the problem with the LS is that parts are just so expensive unless you can get aftermarket parts. I have the 460 and although it has basically been "bulletin proof", it still has had three things go wrong with it and it ended up costing more than it would with a "normal car". One thing was the heater blower motor, usually these things are $40-$120 bucks, but with the LS460 it was $260. I'm a master tech so I was able to install it myself, but if I had the dealer do it? $400-$500! And this was the only repair I needed in a year of driving (30,000 miles). In fact I've only needed to make three repairs in its life (145,000 miles), but because it's an LS it's expensive. Luckily most years I haven't had to do any repairs.
But I can tell you that I have had a Honda Accord, a car that is always considered "bulletin proof" have three times the amount of repairs at the same mileage point.
I think the problem with the LS is that parts are just so expensive unless you can get aftermarket parts. I have the 460 and although it has basically been "bulletin proof", it still has had three things go wrong with it and it ended up costing more than it would with a "normal car". One thing was the heater blower motor, usually these things are $40-$120 bucks, but with the LS460 it was $260. I'm a master tech so I was able to install it myself, but if I had the dealer do it? $400-$500! And this was the only repair I needed in a year of driving (30,000 miles). In fact I've only needed to make three repairs in its life (145,000 miles), but because it's an LS it's expensive. Luckily most years I haven't had to do any repairs.
But I can tell you that I have had a Honda Accord, a car that is always considered "bulletin proof" have three times the amount of repairs at the same mileage point.
the brake sensor wires at $78 is incredible for Oem...I know raybestos is only $8 or so....
looking for someone to press in the Oem lca bushings was nearly futile, but the one indie agreed....
01-16-17, 07:12 PM
#22
Pole Position
$78 bucks for that wire? It's insane isn't it? I'd just splice the wires together and bypass the entire thing. It's a great car, but on the rare occasion something breaks? Watch out.
01-17-17, 08:00 AM
#23
Rookie
Thread Starter
I did have timing belt and water pump done at 180k when it was supposed to be done. Also had thermostat, temp sensor, spark plugs, and serpentine belt done at same time. They found my water pump was leaking!
I do try and do work myself to save money depending on the task. I always do my own oil, fluids, brakes, and filters (engine air, AC). I also changed the hoses and oil control valve myself when they went bad. Was super easy. I opt not to take on the larger projects myself, not because I don't think I can do it, but rather because I'm not sure if I would get it perfectly right. Imagine messing up on the timing belt and blowing the engine as a result! I'd be screwed without this car since it is my only one for now.
I do try and do work myself to save money depending on the task. I always do my own oil, fluids, brakes, and filters (engine air, AC). I also changed the hoses and oil control valve myself when they went bad. Was super easy. I opt not to take on the larger projects myself, not because I don't think I can do it, but rather because I'm not sure if I would get it perfectly right. Imagine messing up on the timing belt and blowing the engine as a result! I'd be screwed without this car since it is my only one for now.
08-10-17, 12:22 PM
#24
Instructor
Worst that can happen? Timing belt break at 75 mph.....while accelerating............... Make sure to change TB every 90,000 miles or 9 years whichever comes FIRST. Got mine at 53,000 miles and 14 years.
08-11-17, 03:14 PM
#26
Instructor
08-13-17, 06:06 AM
#27
To the OP... your repairs appear to be a bit on the high side. My mom has an 01 with 200k on it. While she didn't get it until it had 150K on it, for the past 4 years I've only had to replace one wheel bearing. And now we're dealing with the dreaded door lock actuators. Oh, I did replace the hood/trunk struts when we first got it. I know the valve covers are starting to leak but she's hinting it's time for a new one, so may let the next owner deal with that. Hers is the base model so less things to break, but all the basics as you've had to deal with are still there, but have not been an issue on this car.
These cars are not bullet proof, but I do feel the last, ride and drive better than almost any other car with the same years and mileage on them. Good luck on keeping your ride on the road.
These cars are not bullet proof, but I do feel the last, ride and drive better than almost any other car with the same years and mileage on them. Good luck on keeping your ride on the road.
11-26-17, 08:46 AM
#28
Driver School Candidate
Go back to the LS400. I have a 98 and thus far my only issue is a slight vibration I feel on my seat. My Lexus-trained mechanic does not feel the vibration so I took it to a local garage and the mechanic told me it could be the harmonic balancer or the cross member on the transmission mount area.
I changed both engine mounts and transmission mount at 130,000 miles, and I also changed the control arms. Other than that I havw driven the car for 50,000 miles and have not had any other issues.
My verdict: the LS400s are more economical and they are stronger than the LS460s. They are also less complicated.
[1QUOTE=2KHarrier;9738256]You said it. Great commuter car. I do 145 miles/day in my commute to Chicago and it really isn't bad. I've noticed my mileage is worse now with the winter tires on the car, but during the summer, I'm averaging 27-28 MPG with the car.[/QUOTE]
I changed both engine mounts and transmission mount at 130,000 miles, and I also changed the control arms. Other than that I havw driven the car for 50,000 miles and have not had any other issues.
My verdict: the LS400s are more economical and they are stronger than the LS460s. They are also less complicated.
[1QUOTE=2KHarrier;9738256]You said it. Great commuter car. I do 145 miles/day in my commute to Chicago and it really isn't bad. I've noticed my mileage is worse now with the winter tires on the car, but during the summer, I'm averaging 27-28 MPG with the car.[/QUOTE]
11-26-17, 09:51 AM
#29
Op I have had no problems except my alternator dying and the power steering pump needs to be replaced. Also my electronics will act a little loopy now again like the nav unit will not let me use the climate controls or I cannot adjust the radio volume, but these happen very very rarely and shutting off the car and turning it back on resolves the issue.
11-26-17, 05:36 PM
#30
My LS experience has been problem fee, but with the challenges you have had, rare indeed, I myself would not get another one. I would be put off by all the repairs, might as well as have bougten a A8 good luck.