LS430 not as smooth as expected/desired
09-11-16, 09:28 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
LS430 not as smooth as expected/desired
I'm not sure how to describe this phenomenon. I have the stock 18 rims and recently replaced Michelin Pilots with Premier LTX. Ride and road noise immediately improved. It has been two months now and although I like the Premier LTX better, I still feel our LS430 isn't as smooth as it should be over road imperfections and expansion joints. Alignment has been performed twice and suspension has been examined by a trusted mechanic and no issues identified. Just disappointed that the ride isn't buttery smooth over bumps like my first memory in a 1994 LS400. Maybe I should downsize to 16-inch rims but I don't want the car to lean even more in turns. I was actually disappointed that the mechanic didn't find any fault with the suspension because I was hoping there was a clear cause for the unimpressive ride. Other passengers find the car smooth but I expect better from the 2006 flagship. Over the same roads, my wife's 2006 ES330 (with 17-inch Primacy) honestly feels like it dampens bumps better. The LS430 suspension just feels very busy, for lack of a better description, as if it's hitting bump stops and the dampening isn't sufficient. I tried pressing down on each corner of the car and the springs stop the bounce after one cycle so it doesn't appear that struts/springs are bad. My mechanic is an independent shop. Maybe I should take it to the dealer for a look-see. The car only has 55,700 miles so it shouldn't have any control arm/bushing/loose tie rod issues, right? I remember riding in a friend's Dad's 1995 Avalon in high school and that thing isolated you from road imperfections so well. I wish our LS430 did as well.
Another issue I notice is when cruising at 55 mph over smooth pavement, it is quiet enough that I notice a rhythm to the engine...sort of like a nhinn, nhinn, nhinn sound every second....is that just how V8s sound (this is my first V8)? If so, it's rather annoying and off-putting. I don't think it is tire noise or bad hub bearings, it really does sound like it is emanating/produced from the engine. This is heard while windows are up. I rarely drive with windows down. I like to drive with the radio off and prefer complete silence and try to shut as much of the world out as possible during those special times when I'm alone in the car with my thoughts to myself. That's "me time". Any suggestions or similar experiences from anyone else regarding the noise and/or LS430 ride quality?
Another issue I notice is when cruising at 55 mph over smooth pavement, it is quiet enough that I notice a rhythm to the engine...sort of like a nhinn, nhinn, nhinn sound every second....is that just how V8s sound (this is my first V8)? If so, it's rather annoying and off-putting. I don't think it is tire noise or bad hub bearings, it really does sound like it is emanating/produced from the engine. This is heard while windows are up. I rarely drive with windows down. I like to drive with the radio off and prefer complete silence and try to shut as much of the world out as possible during those special times when I'm alone in the car with my thoughts to myself. That's "me time". Any suggestions or similar experiences from anyone else regarding the noise and/or LS430 ride quality?
Last edited by FatherTo1; 09-16-16 at 10:13 PM.
09-11-16, 09:40 PM
#2
Pit Crew
If i were in your shoes I might go out and look for other used LS 430's and test drive them to see if what you describe is normal or not. Drive two or three different ones and compare them against yours. It may or may not reveal something about your particular vehicle OR it could end up being that its all completely normal.
Although the rhythmic pulsing of the V8 is not something im familiar with. Cruising along at highway speeds does not produce what you describe in my LS 430.
Although the rhythmic pulsing of the V8 is not something im familiar with. Cruising along at highway speeds does not produce what you describe in my LS 430.
09-11-16, 10:04 PM
#3
Pole Position
Suspension tuning is a bit of a dark art. Usually, suppleness and sportiness are mutually exclusive targets. Active suspension makes it possible to increase the range of operating conditions for which the suspension will work well, but the best systems are too failure prone for use on a Toyota / Lexus.
It's entirely possible that your ES330 and the 1995 Avalon isolate better. But your LS probably handles better (define it how you want, but imagine they all had the same tires, we'd expect to see the LS go faster through the slaloms and accelerate harder through the corners).
A number of people here chose to run 16s / 17s for the comfort and find the 18s too loud / too harsh. Before you do anything else, consider 16s. Body roll is the name of the game in these sorts of cars and if you learn how to use it (i.e to squish tires into the pavement) you can hustle these at a pretty good clip. British cars used to have a lot of body roll, skinny tires, and relatively long travel suspension to the driver could squish the tires into road. You can get the sport shocks, springs (or lowering springs), and the sport sway bars to help keep the car level, but do you want to shell out 2-3k just to avoid body roll?
At the end of the day, it's all about trade-offs (doubly so in suspension tuning). You're not going to get an LS to ride like a cloud on 18s without spending the big bucks. And you're not going to get an LS to corner flatter than a can of day old soda on 16s without spending money. If you don't enjoy the car, sell it - the 7 series and A8 seem to ride well and corner flat with big rims. Just put the car for sale here first. Or get a Mercedes S class with ABC or a Tesla Model S with the active suspension - they both handle 20/21 inch rims insanely well.
It's entirely possible that your ES330 and the 1995 Avalon isolate better. But your LS probably handles better (define it how you want, but imagine they all had the same tires, we'd expect to see the LS go faster through the slaloms and accelerate harder through the corners).
A number of people here chose to run 16s / 17s for the comfort and find the 18s too loud / too harsh. Before you do anything else, consider 16s. Body roll is the name of the game in these sorts of cars and if you learn how to use it (i.e to squish tires into the pavement) you can hustle these at a pretty good clip. British cars used to have a lot of body roll, skinny tires, and relatively long travel suspension to the driver could squish the tires into road. You can get the sport shocks, springs (or lowering springs), and the sport sway bars to help keep the car level, but do you want to shell out 2-3k just to avoid body roll?
At the end of the day, it's all about trade-offs (doubly so in suspension tuning). You're not going to get an LS to ride like a cloud on 18s without spending the big bucks. And you're not going to get an LS to corner flatter than a can of day old soda on 16s without spending money. If you don't enjoy the car, sell it - the 7 series and A8 seem to ride well and corner flat with big rims. Just put the car for sale here first. Or get a Mercedes S class with ABC or a Tesla Model S with the active suspension - they both handle 20/21 inch rims insanely well.
09-11-16, 10:11 PM
#4
I have an 04 w/ Sports Suspension. Smaller wheels might help. I've temporarily downsided from 18" to 17" and have new Michelin Premiers. Personally think the smallest wheels (16's) on a 430 don't work visually. With the 17's, ride quality on smooth freeways is great. Virtually no sounds and it's very comfortable. Plenty of "me time". Nothing even resembling "rhythmic pulsing". These cars do make some noise over expansion bumps. It won't be perfectly quiet at all times. The "tomb like quiet" on the freeway is legendary. If you're not getting that, sounds like your mechanic should check the car. If you have the chance to drive other 430's, that's also a good idea. Good luck.
09-11-16, 10:15 PM
#5
Racer
Thread Starter
If i were in your shoes I might go out and look for other used LS 430's and test drive them to see if what you describe is normal or not. Drive two or three different ones and compare them against yours. It may or may not reveal something about your particular vehicle OR it could end up being that its all completely normal.
Although the rhythmic pulsing of the V8 is not something im familiar with. Cruising along at highway speeds does not produce what you describe in my LS 430.
Although the rhythmic pulsing of the V8 is not something im familiar with. Cruising along at highway speeds does not produce what you describe in my LS 430.
However, this morning I test drove an 01 UL while helping my Dad shop for an LS. The 01 UL only has 69K miles and I felt it was smoother over the same patch of road than my 06. The 01 5-speed transmission also felt smoother (completely invisible shifts) compared to the 6-speed in our 06 (smooth shifts, but detectable). I test drove that 01 this morning for 30-minutes and it almost made me wish I had gone with a UL with air suspension but I really don't want to deal with potential repair costs down the road. Unfortunately, the 01 exhibited a lot of squeaks and rattles in the body structure despite riding very smoothly. Our 06 doesn't have any creaks or rattles and the body is solid but I think it could ride smoother. The other LSes I drove were smoother but not so much to suggest something is broken on our 06, but there's enough of a difference that I feel our 06 could be better -- and I don't think it's due to the air suspension because I test drove non-air LSes too, plus I couldn't really tell a difference between the sport and comfort settings on models that did have air. The ride just seemed calmer in the other LSes. Maybe it's all in my head and I should learn to appreciate that we even have an LS.
09-11-16, 10:40 PM
#6
Racer
Thread Starter
Suspension tuning is a bit of a dark art. Usually, suppleness and sportiness are mutually exclusive targets. Active suspension makes it possible to increase the range of operating conditions for which the suspension will work well, but the best systems are too failure prone for use on a Toyota / Lexus.
It's entirely possible that your ES330 and the 1995 Avalon isolate better. But your LS probably handles better (define it how you want, but imagine they all had the same tires, we'd expect to see the LS go faster through the slaloms and accelerate harder through the corners).
A number of people here chose to run 16s / 17s for the comfort and find the 18s too loud / too harsh. Before you do anything else, consider 16s. Body roll is the name of the game in these sorts of cars and if you learn how to use it (i.e to squish tires into the pavement) you can hustle these at a pretty good clip. British cars used to have a lot of body roll, skinny tires, and relatively long travel suspension to the driver could squish the tires into road. You can get the sport shocks, springs (or lowering springs), and the sport sway bars to help keep the car level, but do you want to shell out 2-3k just to avoid body roll?
At the end of the day, it's all about trade-offs (doubly so in suspension tuning). You're not going to get an LS to ride like a cloud on 18s without spending the big bucks. And you're not going to get an LS to corner flatter than a can of day old soda on 16s without spending money. If you don't enjoy the car, sell it - the 7 series and A8 seem to ride well and corner flat with big rims. Just put the car for sale here first. Or get a Mercedes S class with ABC or a Tesla Model S with the active suspension - they both handle 20/21 inch rims insanely well.
It's entirely possible that your ES330 and the 1995 Avalon isolate better. But your LS probably handles better (define it how you want, but imagine they all had the same tires, we'd expect to see the LS go faster through the slaloms and accelerate harder through the corners).
A number of people here chose to run 16s / 17s for the comfort and find the 18s too loud / too harsh. Before you do anything else, consider 16s. Body roll is the name of the game in these sorts of cars and if you learn how to use it (i.e to squish tires into the pavement) you can hustle these at a pretty good clip. British cars used to have a lot of body roll, skinny tires, and relatively long travel suspension to the driver could squish the tires into road. You can get the sport shocks, springs (or lowering springs), and the sport sway bars to help keep the car level, but do you want to shell out 2-3k just to avoid body roll?
At the end of the day, it's all about trade-offs (doubly so in suspension tuning). You're not going to get an LS to ride like a cloud on 18s without spending the big bucks. And you're not going to get an LS to corner flatter than a can of day old soda on 16s without spending money. If you don't enjoy the car, sell it - the 7 series and A8 seem to ride well and corner flat with big rims. Just put the car for sale here first. Or get a Mercedes S class with ABC or a Tesla Model S with the active suspension - they both handle 20/21 inch rims insanely well.
I have an 04 w/ Sports Suspension. Smaller wheels might help. I've temporarily downsided from 18" to 17" and have new Michelin Premiers. Personally think the smallest wheels (16's) on a 430 don't work visually. With the 17's, ride quality on smooth freeways is great. Virtually no sounds and it's very comfortable. Plenty of "me time". Nothing even resembling "rhythmic pulsing". These cars do make some noise over expansion bumps. It won't be perfectly quiet at all times. The "tomb like quiet" on the freeway is legendary. If you're not getting that, sounds like your mechanic should check the car. If you have the chance to drive other 430's, that's also a good idea. Good luck.
As for the other suggestions, I just got new Premier LTX tires put on (in the 18 size). Would hate to immediately change them out to 16s now, while at the same time I know my impatience will probably drive me to downsize early. I should have went to 16s when I replaced the tires but I was hoping just changing from ultra-high performance tires to touring tires would be sufficient. The Premiers did improve the ride and road noise and I was initially very happy with the change but now I suppose I want more. Sigh. Thank you both for the ideas and suggestions.
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0011 (06-12-21)
09-11-16, 11:31 PM
#7
I think 16's would be too puny looking. Go for the stock 17's. My 04 UL is on 17's and its the best ride i've ever had,
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09-12-16, 05:13 AM
#8
I have an 06 and replaced the lower ball joints at 65,000 miles. This helped to decrease the road imperfections from the steering wheel. Rubber will age over time. I plan to replace the outer tie rods and see if it helps too.
09-12-16, 08:28 AM
#9
Michelin Premier LTX is a car for light trucks and crossover SUV's. If they're less than 30 days old, ask dealer to swap for Michelin Premier A/S (or Pirelli or other). Light truck tires on 18's probably some of the problem.......
I just bought a set of 17's w/ good Yokohama's for $500. Put on a set of new Michelin Premier A/S and am pleased. There are other good brands. May do Pirelli's on my 18's. Tiny 16's on a big car just don't look that good.
Agree on transmission. The 5 is invisble. The 6 in my '04 is smooth but slightly noticeable. Manual shift option makes any difference totally worth it! Am going to have the shop do a drain and fill and see if that helps. Lifetime ATF is ridiculous.
If you have the choice, get an '04-06. The older you go w/ an UL, the higher the chance of age-related air shock problems.
I just bought a set of 17's w/ good Yokohama's for $500. Put on a set of new Michelin Premier A/S and am pleased. There are other good brands. May do Pirelli's on my 18's. Tiny 16's on a big car just don't look that good.
Agree on transmission. The 5 is invisble. The 6 in my '04 is smooth but slightly noticeable. Manual shift option makes any difference totally worth it! Am going to have the shop do a drain and fill and see if that helps. Lifetime ATF is ridiculous.
If you have the choice, get an '04-06. The older you go w/ an UL, the higher the chance of age-related air shock problems.
09-12-16, 09:31 AM
#11
Pole Position
There is a noticeable ride difference between 17" and 18" wheels, even with the same tire. (I have 17"s on my '01 and 18"s on the other 3.) The 17"s offer the perfect compromise between the sportier handling 18"s and the super smooth ride 16"s. Also, if you do, in fact, have the Premier LTX tire on the LS, they sold you the wrong tire. I'd go back to the tire dealer and have them swap them for the Michelin Premier A/S, the correct Michelin luxury sedan tire.
Edit: * Duped Daspyda's comment - refreshed page after submitting.
Edit: * Duped Daspyda's comment - refreshed page after submitting.
09-12-16, 09:35 AM
#12
Moderator
Michelin Premier LTX is a car for light trucks and crossover SUV's. If they're less than 30 days old, ask dealer to swap for Michelin Premier A/S (or Pirelli or other). Light truck tires on 18's probably some of the problem.......
I just bought a set of 17's w/ good Yokohama's for $500. Put on a set of new Michelin Premier A/S and am pleased. There are other good brands. May do Pirelli's on my 18's. Tiny 16's on a big car just don't look that good.
Agree on transmission. The 5 is invisble. The 6 in my '04 is smooth but slightly noticeable. Manual shift option makes any difference totally worth it! Am going to have the shop do a drain and fill and see if that helps. Lifetime ATF is ridiculous.
If you have the choice, get an '04-06. The older you go w/ an UL, the higher the chance of age-related air shock problems.
I just bought a set of 17's w/ good Yokohama's for $500. Put on a set of new Michelin Premier A/S and am pleased. There are other good brands. May do Pirelli's on my 18's. Tiny 16's on a big car just don't look that good.
Agree on transmission. The 5 is invisble. The 6 in my '04 is smooth but slightly noticeable. Manual shift option makes any difference totally worth it! Am going to have the shop do a drain and fill and see if that helps. Lifetime ATF is ridiculous.
If you have the choice, get an '04-06. The older you go w/ an UL, the higher the chance of age-related air shock problems.
Good catch - Michelin Premier A/S is likley a better tire for LS430. I think we may have LTX on our SUV - I think tires made for SUV and light trucks have stiffer sidewall construction so they can carry more weight. Also I have experienced a very noticeable difference in ride between LS430 on 17s versus on 18s with the ride on 17s being significantly quieter and smoother...could have been tires also but I think it had to do with larger wheel size and lower profile smaller sidewall tires not absorbing small bumps as well. Maybe a higher profile 18 inch tire with more flexible sidewall may smooth and quiet ride.
09-12-16, 10:05 AM
#13
tom - what brand/model do you run on both sizes? The difference is obvious? I've got Michelin Premier A/S on 17's. This works well on my '04 w/ Sports Suspension. Same tire/wheel size on my 01 (regular suspension) and very little difference in freeway road noise. The '01 is the legendary Lexus quiet. The '04 is very close.
I'd like to use the 18's but keep all (or most) of the freeway quiet. The larger wheel does handle noticeably better on the '04 w/ SS. If it's a little stiffer in corners that's ok. Goodyear has a high perf tire with something called a "comfort tread". My tire guy says that there will be very little tire noise. His past recommends have been great. It's ambitious but I'd like to get freeway quiet and good handling. Comments?
I'd like to use the 18's but keep all (or most) of the freeway quiet. The larger wheel does handle noticeably better on the '04 w/ SS. If it's a little stiffer in corners that's ok. Goodyear has a high perf tire with something called a "comfort tread". My tire guy says that there will be very little tire noise. His past recommends have been great. It's ambitious but I'd like to get freeway quiet and good handling. Comments?
09-12-16, 10:57 AM
#15
Pole Position
The '01 (17" wheels) has Michelin Premier A/S, one of the '06's also has the Premier (18"s), another '06 has the legendary Michelin MXV4 (18"s), which are my favorite. The Premier are smooth, but they are softer composition and start at 8.5 mm tread depth, so I don't expect to get the 60K rated mileage.