wnyjazz

New to the pricing on the UL's.

Is $17K/OBO a fair price if it is the real deal condition wise?

http://ocala.craigslist.org/cto/5713886132.html

Thanks,

Skip

vfr700f2

I have financed cars in Florida, and you get the title, along with a section that shows the lien. When you pay off the loan, you get a lien release from the lender. So this is a bit odd, though not necessarily evidence of a scam. Are you in FL? Your location is shown as NY...

wnyjazz

No. I'm a former resident, but that was many years ago.

I have a relative there who worked for a Toyota dealer in service management for years that would check it out for me if it gets that far.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

I think it's priced pretty high, but sounds like seller will come down some.

Notes:
- it's modified somewhat with a rear window spoiler, deleted mufflers, exhaust tips. That usually isn't a good thing for the buyer and can actually drive down the asking price with concerns of 'owner drove it like a sports car'.
- center armrest shows considerable wear
- I'd ask to see the receipts for exactly when the air suspension was replaced. To see recent high $$ warranty replacement with a vehicle 11 years old and 100,000 miles is not common

Get the service history and validate when the items said were done (brakes, timing belt, air suspension, etc) from the dealer and confirm the warranty is transferable outside the local dealer where it was bought (with this mileage, I'd be suspect of that).

Having said the above to investigate, think it looks pretty good if you can get the cost down some and validate claims.

On the 'sit in the bank with me and they'll mail you the title' I think I'd like to walk out of the bank with the title if it were me, but maybe with a bill of sale and confirmation / receipt from the bank it'd be OK.

LS430FL

I currently live in Florida and have financed two cars in the past 5 years and I never got any title at all until I paid the car off so this is interesting. I have always wondered I really have no proof of ownership other than the registration in my name and a bills comes to me every month.

I think this seller knows that he has a pretty rare car as far as it being a black on saddle UL car. I agree with the others that it is priced high, but if everything he says is true, most of the high dollar items have been taken care of on this car for many more years/ miles. 3/4 air shocks have been replaced which is very expensive, also the Timing belt and water pump is done which is also usually a bargaining tool because that isn't a cheap service.

I also have to agree that the muffler modification would bring down value unless you like it. i think the spoiler is probably stick on and can be removed easily.

I love the cars color combo. I would have the car checked out by a lexus dealer, confirm that the warranty can be transferred to you (this is a nice feature most LS430's don't come with anymore), and confirm all the services he mentioned have been done and then try and get him down as much as possible. This to me is a rare"ish" car when it comes to LS430's which is exactly what I look for when buying a car.

wnyjazz

Great info all...thanks!

Tom57

Says the "timing belt tensioner" was replaced along with the water pump. The timing belt tensioner is only one of the various internal timing belt component parts that should've been replaced at 90,000 miles, along with the timing belt, idlers, etc. I'd want proof it was done completely.

I echo what Dave said about wear and certain modifications -- that would be a concern.

vfr700f2

hmmm... It's been a while so I could be remembering wrong. Won't swear to it.

Jazz, I'd definitely rather buy a car from FL than from NY, so you're on the right track IMHO. I also have people I trust there. My wife's new RX350 is a CPO lease which we got in Greenwich CT, but it came from FL too. No salty roads and no crater-like potholes. Not that it matters much when we're just giving it back in 3 years, but when I go LS430 shopping it'll matter.

OsideTurbo

I love the Black/Saddle - my favorite color & trim. Nice find.

I'd ask him about the pictures and when they were taken and whether it has the spoiler or not. I see the spoiler in the first pic, but I don't see it in the second. Also, the outside temp shows 54 degrees which seems pretty low for Florida in August. When I was looking for 430's (I bought mine 2 months ago), I didn't see any that had problems with the chrome strip peeling, so I'd wonder if that is a result of cheap car washes at gas stations. Maybe others can say whether that is a common issue. (If so, I'd like to know how to prevent it on my 2004.)

The price seems high to me. Sure, he might get somewhat of a premium for the saddle - but my take on the current market puts that car at $12-$15K. He obviously has a nut to cover because of his financing, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he's going to get what he wants. However, I never saw a car with a dealer warranty when I was looking, so maybe that is worth the extra money? He says it's a "2 year/24K" warranty, but he doesn't say how much of it is left - maybe there is exactly 2 years left, but I'd make sure. Since he has replaced 3 of 4 bags and because the air suspension is a known problem (many owners convert to standard shocks when the bags fail) you can expect to be replacing that 4th bag any day now - so it would be nice to have it under warranty when it goes.

Muffler delete is illegal in Florida (and most states). You can use that as a bargaining chip. Get a quote from the dealer for a replacement and try to knock him down at least the amount it will take you to make the car legal again.

As others have said, check the maintenance history (with the VIN, you can look it up online).

vfr700f2

Really? As a bargaining chip I see your point. Whether it works or not is another thing.

But in real life, there's no inspection of any sort in FL, and on the road the cops don't seem to care, based on all the loud cars I've seen/heard. My stepson ran his 2010 Mustang GT with no mufflers, no resonators and no cats. Nothing but the factory headers with pipes all the way out the back. That was LOUD. And didn't sound very good IMHO either. Never got hassled, and there wasn't a peep from the Ford dealer when he traded it in.

Since Jazz is in NY, and there is inspection here, could be a whole 'nother thing. But with stock manifolds, cats and (I assume) resonators still in place, it's probably relatively quiet still.

OsideTurbo

It is against the law. Whether the law is enforced, I don't know.

This statute makes muffler deletion illegal:

316.272 Exhaust systems, prevention of noise.—(1) Every motor vehicle shall at all times be equipped with an exhaust system in good working order and in constant operation, including muffler, manifold pipe, and tailpiping to prevent excessive or unusual noise. In no event shall an exhaust system allow noise at a level which exceeds a maximum decibel level to be established by regulation of the Department of Environmental Protection as provided in s. 403.061(11) in cooperation with the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles. No person shall use a muffler cutout, bypass or similar device upon a vehicle on a highway.(2) The engine and power mechanism of every motor vehicle shall be so equipped and adjusted as to prevent the escape of excessive fumes or smoke.(3) A violation of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a nonmoving violation as provided in chapter 318.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/.../0316.272.html

And, there is also a statute with decibel limits, which may or may not be violated by a muffler delete, depending on the noise it makes. Too long to post, so here's the link: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/.../0316.293.html

New York has a similar law and I know that some departments routinely give a look underneath the rear as the cop approaches a car during every traffic stop and will give a $110 ticket for a missing muffler.

31. Mufflers and exhaust systems. Prevention of noise. Every motor
vehicle, operated or driven upon the highways of the state, shall at all
times be equipped with an adequate muffler and exhaust system in
constant operation and properly maintained to prevent any excessive or
unusual noise and no such muffler or exhaust system shall be equipped
with a cut-out, bypass, or similar device. No person shall modify the
muffler or exhaust system of a motor vehicle in a manner which will
amplify or increase the noise emitted by the motor or exhaust system of
such vehicle above that emitted by the muffler or exhaust system
originally installed on the vehicle and such original muffler and
exhaust system shall comply with all the requirements of this section.
A muffler is a device consisting of a series of chambers or baffle
plates, or other mechanical design for the purpose of receiving exhaust
gas from an internal combustion engine, and effective in reducing noise.
An exhaust system is a series of mechanical devices for the purpose of
receiving exhaust gas from an internal combustion engine and expelling
it into the atmosphere.

http://ypdcrime.com/vt/article9.htm#t375.

If I were OP, I'd definitely try to use it as a bargaining chip.

texan_176

iTrader: (5)

I think it is priced high but if you love saddle it could be worth it to you.

An 05 black on black UL on the 18 inch wheels with 75K miles, 1 owner, all dealer service, and 2 of 4 air shocks replaced by the dealer under warranty sold in my area for $15K last month.

Currently there is a 1 owner 2001 UL in my area with 145K miles for $7K that has been sitting on the dealer lot for 3 months because of the suspension system time bomb (assuming it is not already broken) liability.

The 05 was still too risky for me to buy since I am past the age where I have tons of time to work on my cars so I went with a lesser trim. If you go for it plan on suspension repairs or conversion to metal springs at some point. The OEM air shocks are $900-1200 each depending where you buy.

tradosauru

You are correct sir, on the muffler delete. Most cities/states don't enforce it until a neighbor complains about a-holes who drive down their street waking them up in the morning. ;o)

tradosauru

The ad does say OBO but the starting price, IMO, is for a Lexus in excellent condition. The warranty is nice as well as the timing belt having been replaced recently (~$1000 service).

Excellent condition - buy at $15,000
Good condition - buy at $13,000
Any condition below good I would avoid.

I would verifity length of ownership and number of owners. I would want to know why the guy is selling before he has it paid off.

wnyjazz

Great posts everyone.

You guys have been a big help.

I agree on the $15K. Seems likely he would need to come down to that.

My relative lives in Sarasota, so I'm not going to ask him to make the trip to look at it just yet.

Maybe someone on here who is also interested in it will give us their thoughts after seeing it/driving it.