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I have been agonizing over the decision of whether or not to downsize from 18-inch rims to 17s. I love the look of the 18s, but the seller had put new 245/45/18 Michelin Pilot A/S 3+ tires (not a cheap option) on the car and they're noisy and ride stiff.
As others suggested, I test drove an 04 UL with air suspension and 17s and honestly did not notice a difference in ride quality compared to our 06 ML. Based on the brief test drive and the experience of LS430FL, who drove 3 years with each rim size and did not notice a difference in ride quality, I decided to keep the 18s and get rid of the Pilots today.
I only had 4,500 miles on the Pilots but their humming and droning was grating on my nerves and were a constant distraction while driving. I kept being reminded of the tire noise. We've used Michelin tires exclusively for over 20 years on all family vehicles with great satisfaction and this is the first time I hated tires this much. I wanted to try the Pirelli P7 Plus in 235/50/18, but in order to get any credit on the Pilots I had to stick with Michelin.
I couldn't pass up the 80% credit on the Pilots and switched to 235/50/18 Premiers in hopes that the extra sidewall would provide more cushioning, if only a quarter-inch. While waiting for the tires to be installed I examined the tires on display and you can definitely feel how much harder the Pilot tread rubber is compared to the Premiers. The Pilot and Defenders both have very hard rubber whereas the Premier tread is soft and pliable. This immediately gave me hope of a more comfortable ride.
I have only driven 10 miles. On the same portion of troublesome road I can tell the Premiers are quieter than the Pilots. There's still some humming but at more hushed tones. On parts of the road where the Pilot was irritatingly loud, the Premier is audible but no longer distracting. On sections where the Pilot used to emit slight noise and vibration, the Premier is silent. Additionally, the Pilot used to transmit sharp jolts over bumps. With the Premier those bumps are muted and better dampened.
I still wish the Premiers were more comfortable and quiet and maybe they will become so after proper break-in. The LS is more quiet than my wife's same year ES but I sometimes feel her ES actually rides smoother with current Primacies. Still, I sure am happier with the Premiers than the Pilots. The Premiers do seem a tad bouncy, maybe due to the higher sidewall, but grip and stopping distance feels surprisingly as good or better than the Pilot. Hope this helps others -- I noticed more of a difference in ride quality between tires than between rim size.
Good info to know, I think the Michelin Pilots are not known to not be a "luxury" riding tire. Isn't that line a "run flat" tire? That usually means it's a harsh ride.
In my experience, rim size makes a HUGE difference in ride quality and tire noise. I have the 17" rims with Michelin Primacy MXV4, and about the only car I've ever rode that had a smoother, quieter ride was my last Lexus ES, and most of that was because it had 15" rims on it.
Michelin made a horrible decision to end production of the Pilot Exalto A/S tires. I had a set on my SC and they were silent as well as excellent in the rain. In 2014 I replaced the rear 2 but they wore out to the wear bar in only 15,000 miles. So, they cheapened the rubber compound before ending production.
Give the Premier A/S a try. I have these on my SC now and they are silent at 8,000 miles.
It's not the best performance tire in the world but in all honesty the car just crawls in traffic or moves along at 75 mph on the freeway instead of racing on a track so they are just fine.
I had these tires also on my recently purchased (28 days) 05' LS430, the previous owner installed it and still have 8/32 or tread left, it is horribly loud, noisy Michelin tires I have ever use it.
The worst part is 2 of the tires have flat spot since the previous owner did not drive for a long time, it is sound like crap, it's not the Pilot A/S 3+ it was the series without the "plus".
I am going to use it for now...turn up my ML sound system to drown out those horrible tire noise. just FYI.
I have been agonizing over the decision of whether or not to downsize from 18-inch rims to 17s. I love the look of the 18s, but the seller had put new 245/45/18 Michelin Pilot A/S 3+ tires (not a cheap option) on the car and they're noisy and ride stiff.
As others suggested, I test drove an 04 UL with air suspension and 17s and honestly did not notice a difference in ride quality compared to our 06 ML. Based on the brief test drive and the experience of LS430FL, who drove 3 years with each rim size and did not notice a difference in ride quality, I decided to keep the 18s and get rid of the Pilots today.
I only had 4,500 miles on the Pilots but their humming and droning was grating on my nerves and were a constant distraction while driving. I kept being reminded of the tire noise. We've used Michelin tires exclusively for over 20 years on all family vehicles with great satisfaction and this is the first time I hated tires this much. I wanted to try the Pirelli P7 Plus in 235/50/18, but in order to get any credit on the Pilots I had to stick with Michelin.
I couldn't pass up the 80% credit on the Pilots and switched to 235/50/18 Premiers in hopes that the extra sidewall would provide more cushioning, if only a quarter-inch. While waiting for the tires to be installed I examined the tires on display and you can definitely feel how much harder the Pilot tread rubber is compared to the Premiers. The Pilot and Defenders both have very hard rubber whereas the Premier tread is soft and pliable. This immediately gave me hope of a more comfortable ride.
I have only driven 10 miles. On the same portion of troublesome road I can tell the Premiers are quieter than the Pilots. There's still some humming but at more hushed tones. On parts of the road where the Pilot was irritatingly loud, the Premier is audible but no longer distracting. On sections where the Pilot used to emit slight noise and vibration, the Premier is silent. Additionally, the Pilot used to transmit sharp jolts over bumps. With the Premier those bumps are muted and better dampened.
I still wish the Premiers were more comfortable and quiet and maybe they will become so after proper break-in. The LS is more quiet than my wife's same year ES but I sometimes feel her ES actually rides smoother with current Primacies. Still, I sure am happier with the Premiers than the Pilots. The Premiers do seem a tad bouncy, maybe due to the higher sidewall, but grip and stopping distance feels surprisingly as good or better than the Pilot. Hope this helps others -- I noticed more of a difference in ride quality between tires than between rim size.
What was your out-the-door cost for these (installed) if you don't mind me asking?
Good info to know, I think the Michelin Pilots are not known to not be a "luxury" riding tire. Isn't that line a "run flat" tire? That usually means it's a harsh ride.
In my experience, rim size makes a HUGE difference in ride quality and tire noise. I have the 17" rims with Michelin Primacy MXV4, and about the only car I've ever rode that had a smoother, quieter ride was my last Lexus ES, and most of that was because it had 15" rims on it.
Oh man, Brad, your comment makes me want to climb back on the fence between 17s and 18s again, lol. You're right though about the ES. I still remember the exceptionally smooth ride of my Dad's 1995 ES300, that was handed down to me, with the heavy OEM chrome 15 rims. Still miss that car and it has continued to stay in the family by going to my brother and eventually another relative.
Currently, I am pleased with the Premiers but the 235/50s do make the car feel more boat-ish. Not too extreme though. Let's see how these Premiers do over the next few years and I'll revisit rim size when it's time to replace tires.
I had 17 inch wheels during the winter, and 18s in the summer. My car ran so much smoother on the winter/cheaper tires I got rid of the 18 inch wheels on my LS and run 17s now in both the summer and winter.
What was your out-the-door cost for these (installed) if you don't mind me asking?
jdudeski, I paid $355.80 out the door and will receive a $70 mail-in rebate. I received 80% credit on the Pilots. Considering they credited me $154 per tire, that equates to a value of $192.50 per tire if new...which is basically equivalent to the $194 for each Premier tire. I considered it a very fair trade considering I had 90% treadlife left on the Pilots and would have been happy with even 50% credit. Here's a copy of the breakdown pricing.
On top of that, what's the likelihood I would have reached the full 45,000 mile warranty on the Pilots? Also wanted to add that since I did not buy the Pilots I would have needed to pay $111 for lifetime balancing and rotation (which I was near due for). In the end, I figured I am only paying $169 more overall to replace tires I'm unhappy with and getting 33% greater treadlife warranty (60K vs 45K).
Michelin made a horrible decision to end production of the Pilot Exalto A/S tires. I had a set on my SC and they were silent as well as excellent in the rain. In 2014 I replaced the rear 2 but they wore out to the wear bar in only 15,000 miles. So, they cheapened the rubber compound before ending production.
Give the Premier A/S a try. I have these on my SC now and they are silent at 8,000 miles.
It's not the best performance tire in the world but in all honesty the car just crawls in traffic or moves along at 75 mph on the freeway instead of racing on a track so they are just fine.
Thanks, texan, I did go with the Premiers and like them more and more each time I get in the car. I find myself searching for errands to run just to experience how quiet the car/tires are now.
Originally Posted by Stu
I had 17 inch wheels during the winter, and 18s in the summer. My car ran so much smoother on the winter/cheaper tires I got rid of the 18 inch wheels on my LS and run 17s now in both the summer and winter.
Best upgrade ever !!
Stu, that's a very good point. I hadn't considered the experience of those that alternate between rim sizes for Summer/Winter. Do you think I will notice a difference going to 17s from 235/50 series tires? If my math is correct, I am bridging the difference in sidewall height between stock 17s and 18s. At this point, there's barely a quarter-inch difference in sidewall height by going to 17s. Would it really make any noticeable difference? A side effect of the 235/50/18 size is that it also fills in the wheel well gap more than before and looks better to me while, more importantly, providing a better ride.
Stu, that's a very good point. I hadn't considered the experience of those that alternate between rim sizes for Summer/Winter. Do you think I will notice a difference going to 17s from 235/50 series tires? If my math is correct, I am bridging the difference in sidewall height between stock 17s and 18s. At this point, there's barely a quarter-inch difference in sidewall height by going to 17s. Would it really make any noticeable difference? A side effect of the 235/50/18 size is that it also fills in the wheel well gap more than before and looks better to me while, more importantly, providing a better ride.
You going with a larger size 18 will improve the ride.
Going after the last 1/4" of sidewall will probably be noticeable but IMO not worth the cost of new wheels and tires. It just I hated, hated the way the car drove on 18s so I got rid of them. For me it it worked out well as the car is a lot smoother AND I sold the used 18s for $ 300 more then I paid for the new 17s
jdudeski, I paid $355.80 out the door and will receive a $70 mail-in rebate. I received 80% credit on the Pilots. Considering they credited me $154 per tire, that equates to a value of $192.50 per tire if new...which is basically equivalent to the $194 for each Premier tire. I considered it a very fair trade considering I had 90% treadlife left on the Pilots and would have been happy with even 50% credit. Here's a copy of the breakdown pricing.
On top of that, what's the likelihood I would have reached the full 45,000 mile warranty on the Pilots? Also wanted to add that since I did not buy the Pilots I would have needed to pay $111 for lifetime balancing and rotation (which I was near due for). In the end, I figured I am only paying $169 more overall to replace tires I'm unhappy with and getting 33% greater treadlife warranty (60K vs 45K).
Wow yeah, that is actually a great deal. Thanks for sharing the info with us here. I'm in the market for tires soon, so the info helps!
Thanks, texan, I did go with the Premiers and like them more and more each time I get in the car. I find myself searching for errands to run just to experience how quiet the car/tires are now.
Stu, that's a very good point. I hadn't considered the experience of those that alternate between rim sizes for Summer/Winter. Do you think I will notice a difference going to 17s from 235/50 series tires? If my math is correct, I am bridging the difference in sidewall height between stock 17s and 18s. At this point, there's barely a quarter-inch difference in sidewall height by going to 17s. Would it really make any noticeable difference? A side effect of the 235/50/18 size is that it also fills in the wheel well gap more than before and looks better to me while, more importantly, providing a better ride.
At this point, I would just go with what you have. There's always going to be a "better", you could also go to 16" rims for an even smoother ride, etc.
It seems you're happy with the new tires, don't drive yourself crazy with "what ifs". I bet it still rides smoother than most anything else that's new out there now.
My issue is with the new luxury cars going with the really big rims, I would guess 20" and plus is now pretty common. I just know if I was going brand new I would want the absolute smallest rims they make for that car, and those would likely still be too big.
I have 245 pilot a/s 3 not the plus. I thought they where as quiet as my MXV4 but improved my handling immensely with little if any loss in comfort or ride quality.. The 3 plus supposedly improved snow traction I do not need as I run snows. I lost one to sidewall damage on the freeway and just found a used one to match the other 3 tonight. They will not make 45k warrantee so I will get em prorated and buy another set. Sorry to hear yours where not good I did like the Exalto's also.
07-12-16, 03:08 PM
Glad to be rid of Michelin Pilot A/S 3+
