Junglequac

I am witcha about CarFax. I hold very little stock in their reports about accidents. Where they can be handy is in service records. I am blessed that my brother was Body Shop Manager at a Mercedes-Benz dealer for over a decade and is now an adjuster for Allstate so he can tell if a car has been heavily damaged just by a glance.

My car being black has scratches here there and everywhere and worse a dent on the trunk near the "L" on the trunk. This will be my Spring project to buff and get the trunk fixed. As I pay cash for my cars, between xmas and everything just don't want to be going too far over the deep end.. However, it was honest and was clear it had never been in an accident and has the best service record from Lexus I have ever seen. This is on a LS460.

lr2017

Thanks for yoru replies. I let it go. Back to search now. It's really hard to get these in drivable distance. I began to think of alternatives, test drove 2007 RL with some 90K mi, typical Honda drive feel (I did not like) with less room int he back, although I think Bose sounded better than ML. Then test drove Infiniti M35, 113k mi, had lot of oomph and engine sounded like a sports car but I am looking for car with symphony theater feel rather than tease me to change up the gears (I did that for few years on my Passat). So now I wonder if I should expand search to LS460 and increase budget to $15k (I know it will even harder to find). Has anyone bought from out of state dealer / ebay without test driving if the records look good?

Johnhav430

My thoughts now, and I am new to the used car world, meaning always bought the last 3 new, that it would be worth it to buy a car in Texas, or Florida, i.e. where they don't rust. My cousin just bought a 2006 BMW on eBay, and it was shipped from FLA to NYC, so he did not see it except through pics and questions via email. He did manage through email to get the guy come down a lot, 15k down to 11k. I haven't seen it yet, but he emailed me he's happy. So me, again, I want to try to get a private party price, from a Lexus dealer, and I am less shy about asking for repairs to be thrown in, if it's a new car dealer. Seriously I was tempted to settle for a black car at a dealer 25 miles away, but glad I ended up going 150 miles away for what I believe is a better car and even better price (inconvenient as I returned 2X for repairs). Maybe there are more folks who can chime in about buying cars online far away from where we live. Mine is a FLA car and supposedly no accidents, so I'm hoping it "rusted" 8 years less than the same car that would have been sold in my area....good luck...

lr2017

I notice a 2008 LS 460 98k $15k listed with a Benz dealer (the sticker on the door reads mfg date 12/07), the records look good, carfax is clean, no timing belt service done.
Also see 2005 LS 430 ULTRA 154k $15k with Lexus dealer, lexus maintained, timing belt changed, but waterpump recommendation rejected by owner.
Wanted to get additional thoughts. I like 430 and have been looking for it in CA but the fact that for $15k I get younger, less driven car with more features tempts me. On the other hand I hear not so good stories about maintaining air-suspensions on ULTRA 430. I have done a lot of reading on this forum about prior posts covering comparison to these two.
Thanks.

Junglequac

Hello,
The 460 uses a timing chain, thus it would not be in need of replacement. If I was to guess, that 460 has been at their lot for 90 days plus and they are dumping it. If the price ends with a "1" or "3", it is usually code for the bottomed out price like $15,991 or somesuch,

The price on the 430 is on the higher end considering the mileage. As I just had to replace a 430 UL, it took weeks of back and forth to end up with around $16,000 on one with less than 100,000 miles and a complete service history. With 154,000 miles, should the worst happen, you would be lucky to get $12,000 from the insurance company. Whether at fault or not.

Especially in CA, that price on the 460 is outstanding and I would haul butt for a test drive. If you end up liking it, I would get a PPI preformed and enjoy yourself one heck of a deal. A good sign is that MB dealers usually are quite picky about what they keep on their lot. The crap almost universally ends up at auction and or at an indy car lot.

Finally, got to Lexus's owners site and setup an account so that you can enter the VIN and see what service has been preformed at the dealer. That price almost sounds too good to be true and I promise you that it won't be there for long.

JffGRY706

on an episode of Wheeler Dealers Edd replaced the timing chain on a Mercedes. I was shocked at the replacement and the time/ mileage between recommended replacement. I thought that chains lasted for the life of the car. do Lexus chains ever have to be done? just wondering

2KHarrier

My opinion (and you we all have 'em) is to purchase a late model LS430 and skip the LS460. The last couple years of the 430 was the true Zenith of this model. The bugs had been worked out, the transmission was flawless, etc.

The 460 was just getting started and there are plenty of threads discussing them. I think you would get a better car by buying the 430.

Have you looked at CarMax? I bought my 2005 through them and it came out of the Dallas area. The price was in line with what the others I had looked at were going for and they even took care of a few things it needed.

The ML package is similar to the UL package, except for the Laser cruise, ice box, door assist and active suspension, so perhaps you could find a clean 05 or 06 Modern Luxury?

lr2017

Thanks very much. Yes I do see the price is ending in "3" (dropped from $16,991 to $15,993 in 34 days, twice $500, source: autolist.com). Did not know about the "1", "3" rule there, so thanks for educating. Yes I put VIN in Lexus website and pulled the service history earlier but married the info with carfax and it looks like Owner 2 bought in Oct'15 @75kmi drove till end Dec'16 to $97k, no record of any service between these two period, then finally took to Lexus dealer in Nov'16 @95k got Brakes, 4 tires, and serpentine belt replacement +alignment+ suspension inspection (90k minimum service performed). Then traded in to MB a month later @97k. I guess he must be a real commuter to drive many miles in a year and not having time to maintain.

The UL is still in Lexus shop being prepared for show, so I will find out tomorrow, I was thinking no more than $12k but that seems big gap between their ask and my offer.

mafpolo

I have an 02 LS430 UL 9Millinium silver, black leather, rosewood). I just rolled over a 100,000. I have maintained the car, as well as taken care of beautifully (wax, polish, washing, etc.). The car looks almost new inside and out. A BMW dealer offered me $9,500 on a trade for a used 2014 5 series. I finally changed my mind on trading, and decided to keep what I had. They offered to buy the LS from me for $9,500. I saw an '06 custom luxury with low miles for sale by a Lexus dealer, and I called them. Dealer told me it was sold, and LS430's usually sell within two to three days. My mechanic is a Lexus certified mechanic, who works for a dealer. He told me that the 430 is a better car than the 460. He told me that the quality is better, the 430 is built "heavier," better electronics, less electronics, and overall just a better mechanically sound car. Having said all that, two of my four air struts failed. They actually started to fail during the warranty period. The dealer kept saying that the struts were fine (they threw sensors and other parts at the problem...car leaned to the right), and Lexus refused to replace them (or help with the cost), even though I had seven trips to the dealer for the problem. I did convert the car to coils and springs. If doing it all over again, I wouldn't buy an Ultra.

Junglequac

As a former 2005 Ultra Luxury owner and now a 2007 460 owner, I urge you to read the the threads on the 460 Subforum. Aside from the brake actuator and the control arms, there are not to my knowledge any other common failure points aside from the air springs which apply to the 430 as well.

As far as the actuator goes, there is an extended warranty on that and if the control arms are not done at the dealer, it almost comes out a almost a wash compared to the $1000 or so it costs to have the timing belt done on the 430.

There are several here with 140-150,000 miles and they have held up just fine. Sure, things like bearings need to be replaced, but I have spend untold hours going back in the 460 forum and the biggest complaint by far is wind noise which seems to have been rectified on the whole during the warranty period.

Out of curiosity, I searched AT for 460's with 150,000 plus miles and past 200,000 miles and also looked at the service records and aside from the aforementioned brake actuator, I struggled to find many/any horror stories.

The 460 is still a Lexus and the flagship at that. One they spent billions developing and the Consumer Reports long term owners surveys show this to be the case. Heck, probably, 20% if not more of current threads are 2007-2012 owners contemplating upgrading to the 2013 model.

I have heard the same anecdotal evidence from my service advisor who owns a 430 UL, but just search this forum and I don't think you will see many/any 460's being stranded on the side of the road. Cannot say the same of similar aged BMW and Audi's....

texan_176

iTrader: (5)

OP, if I were you I would avoid the UL cars just to not have to deal with the suspension. Even if you DIY everything and are okay with spending close to 4 grand in parts to replace all of the struts since they use rubber parts that dry rot and break down with age; to me it is a PITA to deal with it. The UL does have nicer stuff like the additional leather, better headliner, cooler box, etc but it does not seem worth it to me to deal with suspension headaches. The base cars with the 18 inch wheels (for bigger footprint) are the best buys. The ML level has Navi and ML audio but the Navi is completely outdated tech now plus the ML audio is known to have amp problems.

IMHO Toyota went wrong when they went to the LS460 because it is styled like a Korean car and the sheer electronics in it are likely to become a liability in the long term. The oldest LS460s are now only 10 years old but I would say in another 10 years there will probably be more 430s still on the road than 460s factoring in sales by using % of 430s vs 460s still in service instead of just number of cars. Don't even get me started on the LS500...no V8, twin turbos, and an dash that looks like what 1970s designers envisioned as the future.

In my area 04-06 ULs with around 80K miles list for about $15K if they are flawless yet the sit on dealer lots for months and months. The MLs sell better and are about 2 grand less for similar miles. The base cars tend to get sold very quickly and are roughly about the same or 500-1000 bucks less than MLs.

The average person that just sees a car as an appliance to get from A to B has no desire to buy a used car that is this old and sold as is. It is totally a buyer's market with the LS430. Good luck.

Junglequac

That or they figured that at a $75,000 selling price, they expected prospective owners to not expect Camry maintenance costs.... I owned a 2005 UL and I honestly did not like it and kicked myself for selling my LX470 to purchase it. I will only say that when I replaced it with a 460, I went with a conventional suspension.

That said, if you can get a 2006 UL for $16,000, it might be worth it to drive it until the air shocks need replacement and then switch over to the Sport Package setup on some 430's, Would give you the amazing leather, and backseat to blow away your friends and workmates whilst going super long intervals between needing shocks.

And it is a complement to lump the 460 into Hyundai/Kia's latest offerings considering they poached the head of Volkswagen's Design Group Peter Schreyer:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Schreyer

XJSFan

I love my 2006 LS 430... LOL. Its the only way to go.

2KHarrier

Could not agree more. My 2005 is really a pleasure to drive.

Johnhav430

One more consideration, even if a used car performs fine, there are likely going to be things that would need to be addressed to make it as perfect as it can be. And I'm beginning to realize, 3 people can look at your car--Lexus, Toyota, and an indie. Starting at the left, those will certainly find the big $$$$ recommended repairs. It seems that the one on the right, will find low $$$$ repairs that could be important. And, these tend to be overlooked by those on the left. One of my strategies is to let each party perform a low $$$$ repair, to see how they do. You often get valuable info about the condition of your own car from their multipoint inspections...like if you pay Lexus $59 to flush the brakes, you get a car wash and the inspection, and they might recommend LCA's @ $1,400. Nice, now you go to the indie and use OEM parts and get it done for $350.