Drove, and briefly considered, a 460 today...observations
06-04-16, 11:13 PM
#16
I feel the same way about the LS460. I really like the 08 LS460 I drove around for a day. It was better than I expected but I prefered my LS430 UL. I checked out a 2015 LS460L and was blown away and will get one once I can get a used one in the $20,000-$25,000 range. The newer LS is pretty impressive, considering how nice my UL 05 LS is.
07-11-16, 05:00 PM
#18
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Would this be the LS430 forum if we didn't grossly exaggerate quality differences? Heck, people even nit-pick the 05/06 vs the 04.
But perhaps the minute differences matter more here because 05/06 LS430s are the high watermark for toyota car reliability in the 21st century.
But perhaps the minute differences matter more here because 05/06 LS430s are the high watermark for toyota car reliability in the 21st century.
That 460 I drove finally got sold. They took it down to $29,999 which is a STEAL but even then I still didn't reconsider.
07-11-16, 05:23 PM
#19
Pole Position
I don't think there's much quality or reliability difference in any year of the 430 honestly, let alone 04-06. By nature, of course the last model years are automatically more desireable but I seriously doubt a guy with a 2006 has any better or worse a car than I do with my '04.
The '01s had more issues than the '02 and '03s (especially around the ML amp and LCA bushings, both of which had 3 revisions during the run of the cars).
Also, I have to believe that (at the margin) the 05/06s made after the transmission software update wore better because they never exhibited the symptoms of the inferior software that the 04s and some 05s had.
07-12-16, 04:23 AM
#20
Lead Lap
This thread is quite applicable to me as with the price I paid for my 2005 UL, I actually found several LS460's within $300 of my purchase price.
I will absolutely admit that I prefer the look of the 460 and that for days I went back and forth about what to do. Ultimately, it came down to the 2005 I purchased has an absolutely perfect service history and my repeated calls to my Lexus dealer.
By virtue of my family having purchased now I think 7 Lexii brand new at the dealership and me having had my LX470 always serviced there, they were super helpful in giving advice and running VIN's of 460's I found.
The 460 is an excellent car. No doubt about it. That said, at least to the folks at Lexus I spoke to, the LS430 was the last of the "overbuilt" models. That and the astounding number of Service Advisors who personally drive LS430s sealed it for me.
I do agree that the 460's get a bad rap. That said, it is somewhat disconcerting that there are so many 2007-2008 460's within spitting distance of 2005-2006 430's.
First World problems....
I will absolutely admit that I prefer the look of the 460 and that for days I went back and forth about what to do. Ultimately, it came down to the 2005 I purchased has an absolutely perfect service history and my repeated calls to my Lexus dealer.
By virtue of my family having purchased now I think 7 Lexii brand new at the dealership and me having had my LX470 always serviced there, they were super helpful in giving advice and running VIN's of 460's I found.
The 460 is an excellent car. No doubt about it. That said, at least to the folks at Lexus I spoke to, the LS430 was the last of the "overbuilt" models. That and the astounding number of Service Advisors who personally drive LS430s sealed it for me.
I do agree that the 460's get a bad rap. That said, it is somewhat disconcerting that there are so many 2007-2008 460's within spitting distance of 2005-2006 430's.
First World problems....
07-12-16, 02:36 PM
#21
I have not read every post, but know of and have heard about owners who have moved from the LS430 to the LS460 and then back again to the LS430. This is not uncommon.
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aypues (07-04-22)
07-12-16, 03:16 PM
#22
I've had a 2001 LS430 UL and a 2006 LS430 Modern Luxury. Had both for over three years each. Last week I traded in for a 2011 LS460L. There have been many times when I say in my mind I miss the 430. For some reason I can't pinpoint why I miss it. Don't get me wrong I love my new 460L, but there was just something about the 430 that I loved...
07-12-16, 05:01 PM
#23
2 years later and I still absolutely love my LS430. Some cars I've gotten used to after a while, but every time I drive it and get in it I'm amazed at how fantastic it feels. Smaller wheels and air suspension make it just glide down the road. I don't think I'll ever sell it, if I move to something else I'd give it to my parents. I often get some strange reactions when people see its my car since I'm in my mid 20's and they have seen some of the other cars I have and how they are modded. But every passenger who gets in it is always amazed at the comfort and everything it has with the UL package. I could afford a much more expensive daily but the only thing I'd really gain with it would be the exterior looks. The only other thing I might like in addition is a more modern nav system and bluetooth but I can install the bluetooth and live with the system it has.
07-12-16, 05:29 PM
#24
Lead Lap
While a decidedly different beast, today when getting an oil change, I was given a 2016 RX450h with all the trimmings. All I can say is that I could not get out of that thing fast enough.
I have had many an RX loaner, but not the 2016. My Stepmother actually has one as well and you could not pay me to drive one. While I do prefer that the "h" models are made in Japan as opposed to NA, CVT transmissions are hateful things.
As for the discussion about the 460's, I will only say that the car magazines don't give a great deal of love to the 460 whereas the 430 beat out the A8, S Class, XJ, and 7 Series in 2004 when Car & Driver did a compro: http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mparison-tests
As for the 460, it came in last during the launch year: http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mparison-tests
And later lost a comparison to the Hyundai Equus: http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test
I have had many an RX loaner, but not the 2016. My Stepmother actually has one as well and you could not pay me to drive one. While I do prefer that the "h" models are made in Japan as opposed to NA, CVT transmissions are hateful things.
As for the discussion about the 460's, I will only say that the car magazines don't give a great deal of love to the 460 whereas the 430 beat out the A8, S Class, XJ, and 7 Series in 2004 when Car & Driver did a compro: http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mparison-tests
As for the 460, it came in last during the launch year: http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mparison-tests
And later lost a comparison to the Hyundai Equus: http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test
07-15-16, 08:02 AM
#25
I'm not in the market for a new car these days, as my beloved 430 still serves me perfectly well and has absolutely nothing wrong with it....also, most importantly, it's just about paid off. Me likey no car payment. However, I ran across a beautiful silver on gray 2011 LS460 SWB 66k miles with the chromed 19" 5 spoke rims, Navigation and ML.....same color scheme and similar trim (equipped, but not loaded out) as my 430 which is what made me say "what the hell, may as well go look...maybe it's a sign."
I now have thoroughly driven both cars and here are my observations. Like I said, I'm not really in the market right now, had I been I may have taken it home. It was a very nice car.
The '11 LS I looked at is GORGEOUS, thoroughly modern looking, and oh, those rims. I think the 2011-12 mid cycle update is probably my favorite of the 460 trims. Car looked fantastic. Head turner.
I got to drive it alone which was my original plan and was thrilled when the guy handed me the keys and told me to take my time. I ran the hell out of it, and also drove slow just to feel it out.
Bottom line? And I already had this figured out before I even looked at it:
It's not really an upgrade, just newer and more modern looking. An ES to LS is an upgrade. An LS to LS is very similar.
I really liked the car, but not enough to get rid of my 430 I love so much and sign a 5-6 year car note when I'm just about done with my current one. I liked the more modern interior, but it was noticeably less roomy and not quite as plush and comfortable inside. Seats weren't as comfy and plush. Window, lock, and seat memory switches felt cheaper. I immediately missed the swiveling vents and didn't care for the plastic area by the vents and clock. Headliner also felt cheaper. Everything else felt about the same (door thunk, stalk operations, damps in button presses, gear shifter out of P, etc.) I made sure to bring a good, loud CD and while the ML was impressive, I wasn't blown away by it, surprisingly. That's supposed to be one of the best factory systems on the market or so I thought.
The driving experience was mostly the same, also, except the handling was better and I can say the 460 is noticeably faster, though only at the peak end of the rpm range, where you can feel that extra 100 horsepower right toward redline. The 430 has more low end torque and feels better to just putter around in, but make no mistake once the 460 revs out it's noticeably quicker. I've heard on here that the 460 is no faster and can tell you from experience it is; you just have to keep the throttle buried to feel the difference. Just puttering around it didn't feel as torquey. I felt the 8 gears were too many, and it often hunted. Overall I didn't care for the 4.6L vs the 4.3. The nice, subtle 2-2.5k hum ours makes wasn't there, and winding it out it didn't have that ripping silk sound. Also, it's not as smooth as the 4.3 (due to timing chain vs timing belt).--though still plenty smooth, I admit I'm splitting hairs. That said, I'm definitely team UZ.
The cars were about the same road noise wise, though more ambient and wind noise seemed to get in the 460. The 460 did ride very nice, and I was surprised given the lower profile tires and 19" rims. A little more planted to the road it felt, but with that it also had less suspension rebound which I noticed.
Let me be clear by me saying that by no means are these "demerits" towards the 460. Because I say my seats are more comfortable and the leather is plusher, wood shinier, THAT'S NOT me saying the 460 is a bad car. I did enjoy it, and would drive it in a heartbeat. If my car were on its last leg or if I were in the market in general, I may have walked with it. But, like I said, I just don't feel it's really an upgrade from my current car (other than styling and a few modern tweaks), and I sure don't want car payments for 5 more years.
So that's my story for today. I may look for a '13 LS460 years down the road when it actually is time to retire the 430, though who knows when that will be. Like I said I'm not a fan of car payments. I don't think the 460 has a cheap interior at all as some have said, but while more dated looking, the 430 is unquestionably more luxurious inside in my opinion.
I'd post this in the 460 forums (worded differently), but I'm not trying to argue here. Any LS is an amazing car. For some I'm sure, the styling upgrade and just having a newer car are worth it, but not to me. Old faithful still has many years and 200,000 more miles left in her.
I now have thoroughly driven both cars and here are my observations. Like I said, I'm not really in the market right now, had I been I may have taken it home. It was a very nice car.
The '11 LS I looked at is GORGEOUS, thoroughly modern looking, and oh, those rims. I think the 2011-12 mid cycle update is probably my favorite of the 460 trims. Car looked fantastic. Head turner.
I got to drive it alone which was my original plan and was thrilled when the guy handed me the keys and told me to take my time. I ran the hell out of it, and also drove slow just to feel it out.
Bottom line? And I already had this figured out before I even looked at it:
It's not really an upgrade, just newer and more modern looking. An ES to LS is an upgrade. An LS to LS is very similar.
I really liked the car, but not enough to get rid of my 430 I love so much and sign a 5-6 year car note when I'm just about done with my current one. I liked the more modern interior, but it was noticeably less roomy and not quite as plush and comfortable inside. Seats weren't as comfy and plush. Window, lock, and seat memory switches felt cheaper. I immediately missed the swiveling vents and didn't care for the plastic area by the vents and clock. Headliner also felt cheaper. Everything else felt about the same (door thunk, stalk operations, damps in button presses, gear shifter out of P, etc.) I made sure to bring a good, loud CD and while the ML was impressive, I wasn't blown away by it, surprisingly. That's supposed to be one of the best factory systems on the market or so I thought.
The driving experience was mostly the same, also, except the handling was better and I can say the 460 is noticeably faster, though only at the peak end of the rpm range, where you can feel that extra 100 horsepower right toward redline. The 430 has more low end torque and feels better to just putter around in, but make no mistake once the 460 revs out it's noticeably quicker. I've heard on here that the 460 is no faster and can tell you from experience it is; you just have to keep the throttle buried to feel the difference. Just puttering around it didn't feel as torquey. I felt the 8 gears were too many, and it often hunted. Overall I didn't care for the 4.6L vs the 4.3. The nice, subtle 2-2.5k hum ours makes wasn't there, and winding it out it didn't have that ripping silk sound. Also, it's not as smooth as the 4.3 (due to timing chain vs timing belt).--though still plenty smooth, I admit I'm splitting hairs. That said, I'm definitely team UZ.
The cars were about the same road noise wise, though more ambient and wind noise seemed to get in the 460. The 460 did ride very nice, and I was surprised given the lower profile tires and 19" rims. A little more planted to the road it felt, but with that it also had less suspension rebound which I noticed.
Let me be clear by me saying that by no means are these "demerits" towards the 460. Because I say my seats are more comfortable and the leather is plusher, wood shinier, THAT'S NOT me saying the 460 is a bad car. I did enjoy it, and would drive it in a heartbeat. If my car were on its last leg or if I were in the market in general, I may have walked with it. But, like I said, I just don't feel it's really an upgrade from my current car (other than styling and a few modern tweaks), and I sure don't want car payments for 5 more years.
So that's my story for today. I may look for a '13 LS460 years down the road when it actually is time to retire the 430, though who knows when that will be. Like I said I'm not a fan of car payments. I don't think the 460 has a cheap interior at all as some have said, but while more dated looking, the 430 is unquestionably more luxurious inside in my opinion.
I'd post this in the 460 forums (worded differently), but I'm not trying to argue here. Any LS is an amazing car. For some I'm sure, the styling upgrade and just having a newer car are worth it, but not to me. Old faithful still has many years and 200,000 more miles left in her.
07-16-16, 01:45 AM
#26
The 430 is probably the better car, its certainly the better value right now, but lets face it....its becoming dated.....and after owning a 430 for a few years I would love to upgrade to a nice 460L
After posting my 430 for sale a few times im sort of falling back in love with it again, I decided to refresh it a bit, I orders some oem wheel bearings, and I might order those Rs lowering springs, and im rebuilding the refinishing the 22's I had on it as well
Im going to put it through another year or two of service before I go to the 460L
After posting my 430 for sale a few times im sort of falling back in love with it again, I decided to refresh it a bit, I orders some oem wheel bearings, and I might order those Rs lowering springs, and im rebuilding the refinishing the 22's I had on it as well
Im going to put it through another year or two of service before I go to the 460L
07-16-16, 01:47 AM
#27
I think id rather have a low mileage 460L then a 600hl
07-16-16, 02:16 PM
#28
Racer
There are a couple 600hl's for sale here locally, but for some reason they don't interest me, I think its because there is really no gas savings with the hybrid, and due to the extra weight of the batterys you don't notice any of the extra power either....
I think id rather have a low mileage 460L then a 600hl
I think id rather have a low mileage 460L then a 600hl
I really wanted a 460L at the beginning but was disappointed by the ride, noise, reliability, and greatly compromised trunk space.
07-16-16, 06:02 PM
#29
I was getting gas today at the local Costco and struck up a conversation with the owner of the 600hL in front of me. His is an 08 with only 60k miles. He confirmed the lack of fuel economy benefit with the hybrid. Said he was getting maybe an extra 1 MPG. He loved everything else about the car and mentioned how the electric motors let him beat sports cars at lights. He did shake his head disapprovingly when I asked about trunk space. I've seen photos of the 600hL trunk but was still shocked to see he could barely fit two of his golf bags in the trunk and nothing else. On our LS430 we are always carrying a jogging stroller, 3 lawn chairs, a portable battery jump starter, an air compressor, and basically still have trunk space leftover that is equal to that of a 600hL!
I really wanted a 460L at the beginning but was disappointed by the ride, noise, reliability, and greatly compromised trunk space.
I really wanted a 460L at the beginning but was disappointed by the ride, noise, reliability, and greatly compromised trunk space.
With the hybrid batterys they say the 600hl is more of a v12, with tons of bottom end torque, but due to the added weight the fuel savings is really non existent.
I use my 430 as a work vehicle, I got tool boxes, tools , bags of stuff as well as a large subwoofer box with 2x12 woofers + amp and they all fit no problem.
I will upgrade to a 460L eventually, but its purely for the updated looks, it really doesn't offer much more then that
07-16-16, 06:20 PM
#30
Racer
Yea I heard about the trunk space issues as well
With the hybrid batterys they say the 600hl is more of a v12, with tons of bottom end torque, but due to the added weight the fuel savings is really non existent.
I use my 430 as a work vehicle, I got tool boxes, tools , bags of stuff as well as a large subwoofer box with 2x12 woofers + amp and they all fit no problem.
I will upgrade to a 460L eventually, but its purely for the updated looks, it really doesn't offer much more then that
With the hybrid batterys they say the 600hl is more of a v12, with tons of bottom end torque, but due to the added weight the fuel savings is really non existent.
I use my 430 as a work vehicle, I got tool boxes, tools , bags of stuff as well as a large subwoofer box with 2x12 woofers + amp and they all fit no problem.
I will upgrade to a 460L eventually, but its purely for the updated looks, it really doesn't offer much more then that