Pedro45

Hi all, been following this thread and thanks so much for hard to come by info.
So this thread makes me realize I could probably be very happy with an LS430 CL package, the only other question is if one goes up a year, say to 2007, how much more modern convenience or improvements do you get? thanks, pete

abbyNormal

2007 would be an LS460 which is a different beast entirely. Engine has a timing chain, is a bit bigger (4.6L). I don't know if the different designations ML,CL, UL continued. I'm betting they did not.

AN

Fixman

The 07 is not the same car as it's the 4th gen LS460.
It's nicer have more toyed to play with. So it is an upgrade from the 430. But with more toys comes more issues & things that can go wrong.
I believe from the 4th gen it is recommended to go with the 2011 or newer models as some upgrades & fixes by done by lexus.
Others may chip in. Or you can check the 4th gen threads for info.
Good luck.

Lavrishevo

iTrader: (1)

It took until late 2012 for Lexus to iron out engine problems and yet many still burn oil and wear our suspensions very early. From air-shocks to the plethora of bushings to master cylinders and Mark Levison amp problems the 460 has not been nearly as reliable as the 430. It is telling when everyone recommends owning one with an extended warranty. I think their design is lovely and the modern features are great. Just not a fan of the drop in quality.

toddmorr

i've noticed an entirely unscientific thing about Toyota products from say 2007 to maybe around 2011...the quality seems to have dropped. for example, the fit and finish on my Sienna is not up to toyota standards, and the water pump went bad at 66k miles.....not typical for toyota products at all. Then you have the well documented issues with the flagship LS460 from that era. And you have all the recalls across many models from that era as well. Like I said i have no hard data but I really wonder if Toyota's push for growth then impacted quality globally....really would be interesting to see toyota documents and studies about it. you know of course that they indeed studied the heck out of it....typical toyota and japanese way.

Tom57

Moving up one year from a 2006 to a 2007 is moving from the last of the model year to the first of a new model year. Some here would say you're moving from the best Lexus ever made, to perhaps the worst. Many threads and opinions on the topic, but there's no doubt that the '07 LS460 is a costly and regretful headache for many.

Doublebase

I own one (07 LS460)so let me chime in. The engines are flawless, someone mentioned "oil burning" and it's simply not close to true. There is a thread started on the LS460 side of the house where one guy is complaining of losing oil, meanwhile virtually no one else is. With my own car I can drive 5k miles on an oil change interval and not lose a drop, that's unheard of. The transmission is flawless as well, and with its 8 speeds is able to provide outstanding fuel economy. And it's a powerful car...fantastic on long trips and the highway.

The control arms are an issue with the car, but if you take it to an independent garage you will not get killed with Lexus dealer prices. The brake actuator is, to a lesser degree, another issue with these cars, but it's much more rare. Other than that...make sure the recalls are done and it's a great car, capable handling so many different driving situations.

jwillis123

It's the LS430 vs the LS460!!! It's hundreds of spectacular bruising posts as old world comfort and reliability goes head to head with sleek modern technology! The debate won't stop until someone is whizzing antifreeze!

Kaloteck

Oh come on, it can't be really that bad ?

Tom57

Haha ... many, many Lexus parts managers and Lexus Master Techs from dealers around the nation steered many away from the early years of 460s. That's not simply my opinion or anecdotal comments, and it's certainly not based on a small sample size of some CL members. I'd have two 460's if I hadn't heard of the issues with the 460s.

Lavrishevo

iTrader: (1)

There is a reason why 07 and 460's are worth about the same a 2006 430 if not less.

Anyway, it is true that not every 460 owner experiences the same amount of issues. But it's also true that many do and as Tom mentioned every Lexus shop I have been to has said the same thing about the 430's quality vs the 460. Hell, I have even read that LS600 owners complaining about the quality of their interior and leather vs the 430's.

It's a sore subject for 460 owners in general because it becomes personal. I guess I can't blame them as I put a lot of personal time into my vehicles. If I were to get one it would be 2012 and up. Lexus has been revising the head design in the 460 since 2007 trying to figure out the hesitation issues and other problems. I don't see how someone can deny the rational argument that the 460 has been plagued with more problems then the 430.

It is a lovely vehicle though. When the redesign comes out the price will drop a lot. Good time to pick up a later model if your in the market.

Doublebase

I think the real problem is this is perhaps the worst place to ask a legitimate question about an LS460, because LS430 owners are very sensitive about their own vehicles, and the fact that they have been phased out by a newer model (which happens to all cars). Then what happens is you'll get one guy that will go over on the LS460 board and passively troll for problems...make stuff bigger than it is. I could do the same over here, but it wouldn't be real. In ten minutes I could look at this board and think...then run around and say...the LS430 has transmission problems, air suspension problems, amp problems, driveline vibration issues, and engine failures. But it wouldn't be true in the grand sense of the topic, or LS 460 ownership. I also could go into a Lexus dealer and talk to a service writer about his opinion of the LS 460 - which I have during a service - and report back that he thinks it's the best made vehicle Lexus has ever made, and they don't do any repairs on them (never see them in the dealer for repairs). I could take that one guy's opinion and spread it around as if it were gospel, but it also wouldn't be true.

But all you can really do is go over to the LS460 forum and ask about the car, what you'll find is that a vast majority of the owners are absolutely blown away about the performance, reliability and luxury of the vehicle. There's one guy over there that has 347k miles on his 07 and all he's done for repairs is two control arms, valve cover gaskets and a o ring on the cam phaser. As for myself, I've changed the oil, the brakes, tires and wiper blades....not bad for an 8 year old car with 110k miles on it. And believe me when I say this, I average 27.5 mpg - pretty impressive for a 390 horse power car.

So it's really important to talk to someone who has actually owned one. I have never owned a LS430, but everything I've read and heard has been great. Talk to a 460 owner, they'll tell you the same, it's the misinformed that you shouldn't listen to.

Lavrishevo

iTrader: (1)

I think that's the whole point Doublebase. The most informed, Lexus master techs and independent shops who deal with these vehicle day in and day out say exactly what we have been saying. Go see for yourself. Seriously, don't take our word. Go research for yourself. It's what helped me decide not to go with a 430 over the 460.

Edited - had it backwards.

Tom57

Precisely spot on. Who better to ask than the "guys in the back" at Lexus dealers? I just returned from there (picked up some dash bulbs) and all the guys in the parts dept. say they wouldn't and don't own the early edition years of the 460, though they readily admit that it has kept 'em busy and paid.

Doublebase

So when I put 30k miles on my early model LS 460 a year, without any issues, it's just me that's experiencing this stellar reliability? That must mean that the Lexus Master Tech - that I bought the car off of - lied to me about the reliability of the car. And seeing how I myself am a Master Tech, albeit not a Lexus Master Tech...I must be lying to myself?

Unfortunately the car got a bad rap from the valve spring recall - which has caused zero problems once the recall was done. And unfortunately Lexus charges insane prices to fix this car, especially the control arm bushings, but in reality if you buy aftermarket control arms, install them yourself...it's no big deal. Not a big deal at all.

I'm at the point where I no longer care about how beautiful the car is, or how much carnauba wax I put on it, now I just care about how many trouble free miles I can drive. And I'm treating the thing like a taxi, and all it does it drive perfectly...600 miles a week and it just doesn't seem to care. And believe me I'm not the only one doing it, this isn't a BMW 750i we are talking about here.