Lavrishevo

iTrader: (1)

I'll give you an example Doublebase. The LS430 has 2 bushes that go out usually between 120k - 200k miles depending on conditions and you can buy the OEM part for $80 each. That's it. Just 2 bushings in the front lower arms. No uppers, no rear arms, no brake actuators, ML amps are not common. No problems with hesitations and sudden loss of power. No problems with consuming oil.

Oh yeah, the other common issue on the 430 is door lock actuators tend to go out at the driver and passenger doors after about 10 - 12 years and they can he had for $9 each and is a pretty simple DIY.

The 430 is known to be more quiet, more comfortable, longer lasting, they are holding their value better, and overall more reliable. The interior quality is also better. The leather last longer. The 460 is a lovely car but the fact remains that it cost significantly more to own due to the price in parts and how many parts fail, in general. Maybe yours have not failed but overall the model has proven to have some real growing pains. This is why 95% of the 460 owners recommend getting a Lexus extended warranty.

No point in arguing. Just visit your local dealer or independent shop and see what they have to say about it.

KING

iTrader: (1)

It makes sense, to both of your conversations, Lav, Doublebase.

The LS430 was the last of it's generation, the masterpiece that had everything re-fixed and smoothed down to be the last gem of Lexus. This car was already in production for 5 years, and the '06 was just the cherry on top. Even though I don't really know of any issues that happen to the '04-'05. But the '06 came out of factory with the updated TSB for the tranny. Which you can do at any Lexus dealer for the '04-'05.

Meanwhile the 2007, 460, was the stepping stone for a whole new generation, of a brand new car. From style, to engine, to interior, everything was re-done in the 460. The prime engineer for the 430 wasn't tasked with the design for the 460, to my knowledge it was a whole other engineering team who took care of the 460.

So, don't expect the '07 460 to be a trouble free car like the '06 430.


I have owned both, and that's not me being a 430-fan boy, but it's just reality. The 430 was engineered with such excellence, passion and finesse that it made me desire to ride it instead of the 460.

I haven't owned a 2013 460 though, which I think might be a real nice car to own.(Right side of the 430 of course ;P)

Doublebase

Lavrishevo, the LS430 is a great car, never said it wasn't, but you are selling the LS460 short, which seems to historically be your MO.

I think the problem is your facts are not straight - when you say "oil consumption issues", it's a lie. These cars do not have oil consumption "issues", yet you write it down like they do. Then you say the 06 LS430 is worth more than the 460 and that's a wrong statement. Then you say they are more comfortable, quieter, longer lasting...first off, that's your opinion, nothing more. How do you know how long a newer LS will last? They haven't been around long enough to determine such things.

The LS 460 has control arm "issues", that's the main "problem" with those cars. I understand every car has "problems", you listed some for the 430, but you failed to mention that the timing belts are a $1,200 dollar job, that will need to be done twice in 200k miles. Meanwhile I can replace all of my control arms for $700 bucks and never have to replace a ball joint.

So I'm not trying to tell anyone the LS430 isn't a great car, because it is, but the LS460 is a lot more reliable than you are giving it credit for. I work on cars and believe me the 460 is a high quality vehicle...you'll never have to replace a wheel bearing or have electrical problems, or deal with leaks, or have alternators fail prematurely, or burn oil, or put a tranny in it. Those are things other manufacturers deal with every day, but Lexus doesn't. Hell if you own a newer Honda right now your car needs pistons - think about that - pistons. And they just went through their 10 years of bad transmissions. The LS 460 is a lot better than you're giving it credit for.

ls430lover

double base great point about timing belt
are you getting 27.5 mpg combined driving for all your miles, or highway?

AlexusAnja

Guys, mechanically no one can say without a doubt that one is better than the other, they are just different. I love my 430, plan to drive it into the ground, but I would jump on a '07 without fear because I know it'll be just as good as any previous LS, and better than any European offering. The one reason I won't, exterior styling. It doesn't do anything for me but look like a really really big Camry. The 430 did not look like any Camry.

Doublebase

I'm averaging that with a combined highway, city driving. I'd say my ratio is 70% highway, 30% city.

My highway speed is generally 70-75 mph - the 8 speed transmission is absolutely fantastic in these cars for fuel economy.

KING

iTrader: (1)

That is the exact reason that led my father to buy his current BMW instead of the 460. He also kept the 430 just because it is a time-less piece of car.

Lavrishevo

iTrader: (1)

In my opinion, both Toyota and Lexus reliability has gone down hill and this has lead to many more recall campaigns and bad press. I think their actively trying to fix this because of a major loss in sales but the fact remains that the 460 sales plummeted after 2007. The 430 sold much better. Clearly something missed the mark. 460 sales are abysmal compared to how well the 400 and 430 sold. There are real reasons why this is. Hopefully Lexus can bring back this love back because Mecedes and Audi are taking a lot of the customer base.

Doublebase

I think you're missing the mark in why sales have dropped. The LS430 was a 50k dollar car, then Lexus gives them the new LS460 and the price becomes 70k, well now consumers think...why not just buy an S class? Or an A8? Because I'm going to get rid of it when it goes out of warranty anyway.

I just got an email that I can upgrade to a 2016 LS460 for $1,777 a month...$1,777 a month?! I can buy a $310,000 house and have a mortgage for $1,300 a month, why would I buy the LS460?

And it doesn't help that Lexus puts so many different vehicle models out there...the LS, GS, ES, IS, three different suv's, hybrids, and 10 different trims for each.

Believe me when I say this, Lexus IS the MOST reliable luxury vehicle on the market...everyone knows this. But when an A8 looks as good as it does, and you're paying the same price, and you're going to trade it in right as the warranty ends??? I'd go with the A8. And have you seen the new S Class? Holy crap, that thing is stunning...I'd buy one of them too. But neither one will come close to the LS460 in terms of reliability and function...not even close. Hell my "dreaded" 07 will keep up with Honda Accord in terms of reliability and practicality...it gets as good gas mileage, I can fit as much in the trunk and it doesn't break down. All things my old Accord does, it's just that the German cars look better, drive better and now cost the same as the over priced high end Lexus models. No wonder they're losing ground, or have already lost it. And they blew it in terms of styling - I can hardly tell the difference between a new ES and a new LS.

JffGRY706

I like to check the Long Term Quality Index and it shows only 2009 as a bad year. 2007 is as good as a 2006 and the 2007's are very affordable. I would buy one today if I had to replace my car. I do not surf the 460 forum so I do not know about other issues.

Lavrishevo

iTrader: (1)

$56,000 in 2004 = $70,000 in 2015 and that was a base price. UL's were closer to 65k from what I understand.

http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc....004&year2=2015

Kaloteck

You mean they provide a better, softer ride ?

Lavrishevo

iTrader: (1)

Just a few examples of the 4.6 consuming oil and problems with hesitation caused by design issues in the heads that require the heads to be replaced to totally fix. I don't want to beat a dead horse but it seems delusional to say the 460 is an upgrade or improvement over the previous design when it comes to reliability and longevity.

If you search on google you can find plenty more.


https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-...ion-issue.html

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-...rning-oil.html

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-...eleration.html

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/gs-...move-on-2.html

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-...l-problem.html

Doublebase

Lol! Thanks for posting, did you read any of them? Do you mean the guy who "burnt" a half a quart after 5k miles? Or the people who respond...I've never had any problems?

I mean I guess if you search the entire internet you're going to find a person that has got serious oil burning issues, but your going to find the contrary on those threads, sorry.

And you talk about head replacement...do you mean that mechanic in Minnesota that replaced the heads because of valve guide wear? Because I talked to him - good guy - and he's the first to tell you this is NOT common and he loves these cars. In fact there might be two people on clublexus.com who have had to have their heads replaced.

Hesitation issues? Yeah read the entire thread, for most of us - myself included - it's the fuel we use. I for one put mid grade in mine every other week (when it calls for super) and boy does it effect hesitation. Another guy changed the oil brand he uses and it's gone. There is a flash for the computer...I don't know if you realize this, but cars built within the last ten years have to be flashed/updated once in a while. Every car company does this, even Lexus and there is updates available for the LS 460 that improves shift response/acceleration...read the threads, you'll learn that. Hey and by the way, BMW considers it normal to burn 2 quarts of oil per 1k miles...Lexus considers it normal to burn 1, yet most LS460's burn a half a quart in 5k miles. I bet your 430 couldn't even do that.

Doublebase

You realize the 07 LS460 was a 70k dollar car, right? Quite a jump from $56,000. And Lexus expected to sell only 30k of them, how far off from that mark did they land? Or did they reach their goal? Do you know?