SW17LS

[QUOTE=Dockof-bay;9088212]I'm not sure your point, I'm not taking anything away from the LS430...posting positive things about the LS430 doesn't negate my point.

Arguing with you is pointless, my point is there are plenty of us happy LS460 owners out there. I would never consider wanting my LS430 back compared to my 460. Yes the car is old compared to its competitors at this point, but an all new one is around the corner and if the other new Lexus models are any indication it should be great.

As for it being "shameful" for Lexus, thats silly. Lexus is a very different company now than it was in 2004, and the LS is a very different car to that company. The LS and Lexus used to be synonymous with one another, the LS was Lexus and Lexus was the LS. Thats not the case any more. When people think about Lexus, they don't think about the LS anymore. Lot of different reasons for that, but the biggest one is the decline of the large luxury sedan as a whole. The direction Lexus is moving takes them away from what the LS has always been. Its not as important a car to them as it used to be.

Why don't you focus on how much you enjoy your car instead of cutting other people's cars down.

aypues

yeah, my service guy at Lexus said a significant # of people that upgraded to the LS460 in 2007 were sad they made the switch. The 430 is special obviously. Hope the next gen LS can bring back that "special" aura.

SW17LS

I think part of the issue was that they cut some corners with interior appointments and all in 2007 that they shouldn't have. I remember looking at the LS then and feeling that way vs our 04 430, and feeling that way certainly about the 07 ES vs the 03 ES I had at the time. They improved on that issue in 2010 when they refreshed it, and way moreso in 2013 when they refreshed it again. My 2015 has leather everywhere on the doors, leather on the lower dash like our UL 430 did. Everything inside is very high quality, all the metal is real metal, etc. That wasn't the case when the 07 first came out.

FWIW, my Dad was a little sorry he had replaced the 98 400 with the 430. When the LS430 came out in 2001, he drove it and wound up buying his 400 out of the lease instead of leasing another one. He liked the refresh enough in 04 and his company was offering to lease him one as a company car, or he probably would not have upgraded. A lot of it is what one is used to.

Bob04

That's not true. The metal looking bar below the nav is really just plastic. The "metal" on my 2010 LS460L starting peeling off. Took an act of God to get it replaced, even though it was still under warranty, partly because they had to order an entire new nav unit to replace it. They ended up sending it somewhere and it came back looking like new.

And the leather was not to the quality of the 430. Felt cheap and thin. My car was only 3 years old, and I could see the obvious signs of fading, especially on the passenger door. Driver's seat looked terrible to have only 32K miles on it.

And my stupid glove compartment door looked like it was velcro'ed on. No amount of adjusting by the dealer or myself could make it look right. It worked, but look like it was about to fall open at any time.

Beauty and a few electronic gizmos were all the 460 had going for it. Certainly didn't ride better. Didn't get better gas mileage. Didn't feel any faster. Engine was as noisy as a 80s Benz diesel. Total catastrophe of a car for that kind of money.

Dockof-bay

[QUOTE=SW15LS;9088669][QUOTE=Dockof-bay;9088212]

I'm not sure your point, I'm not taking anything away from the LS430...posting positive things about the LS430 doesn't negate my point.


I was just responding to what you said about the video being a paid add for the LS430. I agree with you on that, but the link was only backing up what was said in the add. That's it. Also, i have no doubt that you are a LS430 fan. I myself would love to pick up a LS460 F-SPORT. Thats a nice 460 you have their. Have a nice day

Bob04

Same here. My service guy said he wouldn't own a 460. That says a LOT.

Lavrishevo

iTrader: (1)

The Lexus master tech at my dealer told me the SC and LS 430 are the best Lexus has made to date in terms of overall quality and reliability. I have heard this from multiple Lexus techs I have spoken too. I kind of got into a pointless fight with the 460 guys trying to explain this. It did not work out too well.... Now I am in a little bit of trouble because of that. Oh well. Sorry 460 boys...

Jabberwock

I have had several Lexus sales folks tell me they have a waiting list of folks looking for cream puff LS430s to come in on trade. When a good one comes in they disappear in a hurry. I have looked at LS460 a few times in the past - almost bought a 2011 F Sport. They are beautiful cars but in the end glad I held off and saved the money. It was going to require I trade in my LS430 and give them about 25K additional.

My LS430 has 72k on it and it has been bulletproof. I hope to hold off until 2020 if possible and then buy a gas/electric hybrid.

Tom57

I can only echo the same experience with the 430. When I was in the market for another LS 2 years ago, I started out looking at 460's. My Lexus parts manager steered me away from them, walking me around the service bays showing me all of the 460's and educating me on the issues with them. The techs love them, he said, because they are kept very busy servicing them, but they wouldn't own one. I added another 430 earlier this month. Total cost of ownership coupled with overall reliability and longevity are the typical reasons why the 430 is chosen over the 460, without compromise to overall ride experience. With three 430's in the stable and a fourth on the way, I admit I'm a little partial though.

Lavrishevo

iTrader: (1)

A 4th on the way Tom? Wow. Going to have your own dealer soon...

I also like the design of the 460. They are lovely. I am hoping the next generation will prove to be more reliable.

SW17LS

Just FYI, the LS460 has remained #1 in its segment and on top of the industry as far as reported problems and reliability. Even if you can make a case that its not quite as reliable as the LS430, its still one of if not the most reliable cars on the road. "Hopefully the next gen will be more reliable"

Lavrishevo

iTrader: (1)

Well it's true SW15LS, between the control arm fiasco, brake actuarors, water pumps leaking, Mark Levison amps failing, major hesitation and upper engine work need on various models, fuel leaks, major oil consumption, and all kinds of stuff. I think your 2015 will have less issues as Lexus has worked through some of this stuff but overall Toyota / Lexus quality has dropped. The amount and scope of recalls is tremendously higher then it was 8 or more years ago. The resale value of the early 460's have also begun to really come down. The sales numbers for the 460 the last 3 years have been pretty terrible. Now you are right that the 460 is more reliable then let's say the 7 series or comparable S class but does that really say a lot? Those cars are known to be horrible in terms or long term reliability. It's not just the 460 that is suffering. Every model Lexus makes has suffered. As I mentioned before, almost every 460 owner recommends getting the Platimum extended warranty. This is very telling within itself.

SW17LS

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Lavrishevo

iTrader: (1)

Lol. I'm with you SWS. Honestly, if I was in that market I would choose a new 460 over the s class, 7 series, or a8 as well.

Bob04

1. S Class
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

2. A8
3/4 (tie) 7 Series/LS460

That may change if Lexus delivers a homerun with the new LS460, but from the rumors I've been hearing, I'm not optimistic.