Which year LS is better to buy used?
05-26-15, 01:14 PM
#16
Pole Position
If you're going with a 430, look to the 05/06. Best years of that model. If you're thinking 460, depending on your budget, the 2011/2012 might be the best of the best.
As for all the "recalls", that's what they're for, to recall and repair an issue. Lexus stands behind their product.
Good luck with your choice.
As for all the "recalls", that's what they're for, to recall and repair an issue. Lexus stands behind their product.
Good luck with your choice.
05-26-15, 10:39 PM
#17
LS vs LS
I"m not sure you can go wrong either way. It depends on what you want.
The LS430 is a phenomenal car; and now an excellent value. It's also the final evolution of a design that can trace its roots back all the way to the original LS400.
The LS460 is an entirely new engine and chassis, and it's just different. They are also going to be more expensive to buy and maintain due to age, higher initial MSRP and the fact that it's a considerably more complicated car.
The LS430s are now probably close to the bottom of the depreciation curve; so they are (and will remain) a good choice if you can find one in good condition that's well taken care of (which at this point is more important than the model year). I'd posit either one is a better value than a new Camry or Avalon depending on what you're looking for.
The 2007 LS460s had some early annoying issues but nothing really deal breaking. I did a write up on another forum here. The brake actuator and the cracked bushings can be expensive to fix but should be easy to spot on a test drive or PPI.
After almost 10 years of owning an LS430 UL I picked up an absolutely loaded 2008 LS 600h L last year. I was expecting to get rid of the 430 but have not as of yet and now don't really plan to unless something makes it necessary.
Some thoughts, most of these apply to both the 460 and 600h:
Surprisingly the LS430 seems quieter than the 600h at a stop and low speeds; at least when the engine is running. The AC unit in the 600h is a bit quieter but you can clearly hear the engine if you turn the radio off at idle. I cannot hear the LS430 engine run at idle and lower speeds; but again this is relative. In electric mode obviously the 600h is quieter. Turn on the radio or open a window and it's a total wash. Lexus seems to have dialed in some more engine noise with the later cars; and the DI system is louder especially when cold.
The 460 engine is kind of peaky. Driving the 460 and 600h back to back at the dealer (and then my 430 home) confirms there's more power than the 430 but you really have to wind it out to get to it. The 600h feels faster due to the electric motor and CVT; and both it and the 460 achieve hyperlegal speeds surprisingly quickly. The mid-range pickup on the 600h is almost Tesla-like in its quickness and intensity.
The 600h rides a little firmer than the 430; although this is probably due to the lower profile 18" tires and crushing 1100lb heavier weight.
The steering in the 600h has less feel but the car handles better; more precise; easier to place in turns. The LS430 can feel awkward and a little vague in tight turns but never pondering. The 460 is a little more nose heavy than the hybrid but still handles better.
The LS430 is easier to park. Not sure why because it's not that much bigger but somehow I seem to nail the parking every time (maybe 10 years experience). The Auto Park system is not nearly as bad as everybody says providing you can position the car correctly (about 2-3 feet away from the car next to you and half a car length past the front). Although sometimes its faster to park yourself. It could also be because...
The LS430 has much better visibility. Those huge windows let more light in (maybe also make parking less of a chore). Also in the LS430 the pillars are thinner; the beltline is lower and the 600h APCS system blocks any visibility over the rearview mirror.
The 600h has more toys but oddly I don't use them very much. Except for maybe the parallel parking system and the power rear sunshades. Hardly anybody uses the shiatsu massage or DVD player in the rear exec seat.
The seat heaters in the 600h are better. Newer designs that heat up really quickly (like the backseat in the 430). The heated steering wheel is neat but I think I've used it exactly once. Only the leather heats up.
I like the ML system in the LS 430 a little more than the 600h. It's a more natural sound; the 600h has much punchier bass which I'm sure makes movies sound great but is a little strong for me after 10 years of the one in the LS 430.
The LS430 has more headroom than the 600h, at least for the driver. I'm 6'3" and sometimes I can feel my hair hit the headliner if it's fluffy. I can wear a hat in the 430 no problem.
The back seat legroom is obscene on the "L" model. Great if you have lots of tall friends.
The fridge on the LS 430 seems to cool faster than the one on the 600h; although this may be due to it also having to cool the battery pack. The 430 fridge also has a more square shape and holds the larger Arrowhead bottles that don't fit in the 600h.
I can make a case for either one at this point. The LS460/600h is a great car; better in many ways than the car it replaced. I still love the LS430; and now it's a crazy deal for the price. It feels solid; sorted out. The 600h is far more ambitious (even more dramatic) but driving the two back to back both have; as Eiji Toyoda said about the first LS400, 'excellent merits.'
The LS430 is a phenomenal car; and now an excellent value. It's also the final evolution of a design that can trace its roots back all the way to the original LS400.
The LS460 is an entirely new engine and chassis, and it's just different. They are also going to be more expensive to buy and maintain due to age, higher initial MSRP and the fact that it's a considerably more complicated car.
The LS430s are now probably close to the bottom of the depreciation curve; so they are (and will remain) a good choice if you can find one in good condition that's well taken care of (which at this point is more important than the model year). I'd posit either one is a better value than a new Camry or Avalon depending on what you're looking for.
The 2007 LS460s had some early annoying issues but nothing really deal breaking. I did a write up on another forum here. The brake actuator and the cracked bushings can be expensive to fix but should be easy to spot on a test drive or PPI.
After almost 10 years of owning an LS430 UL I picked up an absolutely loaded 2008 LS 600h L last year. I was expecting to get rid of the 430 but have not as of yet and now don't really plan to unless something makes it necessary.
Some thoughts, most of these apply to both the 460 and 600h:
Surprisingly the LS430 seems quieter than the 600h at a stop and low speeds; at least when the engine is running. The AC unit in the 600h is a bit quieter but you can clearly hear the engine if you turn the radio off at idle. I cannot hear the LS430 engine run at idle and lower speeds; but again this is relative. In electric mode obviously the 600h is quieter. Turn on the radio or open a window and it's a total wash. Lexus seems to have dialed in some more engine noise with the later cars; and the DI system is louder especially when cold.
The 460 engine is kind of peaky. Driving the 460 and 600h back to back at the dealer (and then my 430 home) confirms there's more power than the 430 but you really have to wind it out to get to it. The 600h feels faster due to the electric motor and CVT; and both it and the 460 achieve hyperlegal speeds surprisingly quickly. The mid-range pickup on the 600h is almost Tesla-like in its quickness and intensity.
The 600h rides a little firmer than the 430; although this is probably due to the lower profile 18" tires and crushing 1100lb heavier weight.
The steering in the 600h has less feel but the car handles better; more precise; easier to place in turns. The LS430 can feel awkward and a little vague in tight turns but never pondering. The 460 is a little more nose heavy than the hybrid but still handles better.
The LS430 is easier to park. Not sure why because it's not that much bigger but somehow I seem to nail the parking every time (maybe 10 years experience). The Auto Park system is not nearly as bad as everybody says providing you can position the car correctly (about 2-3 feet away from the car next to you and half a car length past the front). Although sometimes its faster to park yourself. It could also be because...
The LS430 has much better visibility. Those huge windows let more light in (maybe also make parking less of a chore). Also in the LS430 the pillars are thinner; the beltline is lower and the 600h APCS system blocks any visibility over the rearview mirror.
The 600h has more toys but oddly I don't use them very much. Except for maybe the parallel parking system and the power rear sunshades. Hardly anybody uses the shiatsu massage or DVD player in the rear exec seat.
The seat heaters in the 600h are better. Newer designs that heat up really quickly (like the backseat in the 430). The heated steering wheel is neat but I think I've used it exactly once. Only the leather heats up.
I like the ML system in the LS 430 a little more than the 600h. It's a more natural sound; the 600h has much punchier bass which I'm sure makes movies sound great but is a little strong for me after 10 years of the one in the LS 430.
The LS430 has more headroom than the 600h, at least for the driver. I'm 6'3" and sometimes I can feel my hair hit the headliner if it's fluffy. I can wear a hat in the 430 no problem.
The back seat legroom is obscene on the "L" model. Great if you have lots of tall friends.
The fridge on the LS 430 seems to cool faster than the one on the 600h; although this may be due to it also having to cool the battery pack. The 430 fridge also has a more square shape and holds the larger Arrowhead bottles that don't fit in the 600h.
I can make a case for either one at this point. The LS460/600h is a great car; better in many ways than the car it replaced. I still love the LS430; and now it's a crazy deal for the price. It feels solid; sorted out. The 600h is far more ambitious (even more dramatic) but driving the two back to back both have; as Eiji Toyoda said about the first LS400, 'excellent merits.'
05-27-15, 04:47 AM
#18
Moderator
I"m not sure you can go wrong either way. It depends on what you want.
The LS430 is a phenomenal car; and now an excellent value. It's also the final evolution of a design that can trace its roots back all the way to the original LS400. The LS460 is an entirely new engine and chassis, and it's just different. They are also going to be more expensive to buy and maintain due to age, higher initial MSRP and the fact that it's a considerably more complicated car......
The LS430 is a phenomenal car; and now an excellent value. It's also the final evolution of a design that can trace its roots back all the way to the original LS400. The LS460 is an entirely new engine and chassis, and it's just different. They are also going to be more expensive to buy and maintain due to age, higher initial MSRP and the fact that it's a considerably more complicated car......
05-27-15, 07:57 AM
#19
Great post Jainla. Thanks for sharing your insight. The turning radius on the 430 is really fantastic. I think this is what makes it so easy to park. You know what's crazy. Lexus says its normal for the 460 to consume as much as 3 quarts of oil between changes. My 430 does not cosume really any oil I have ever noticed. Even at a 7500 miles oci.
Last edited by Lavrishevo; 05-27-15 at 02:55 PM.
05-27-15, 11:15 AM
#20
Pole Position
I agree with all those comments.
In addition, I felt like the interior materials in my 460L were cheaper in look and feel than the 430. Especially the leather. The leather in my 460L felt really cheap. Very thin and almost plastic-like.
There was very little that I liked about my 460L better my 430. Don't regret getting rid of it and going back to a 430 for a second. I firmly believe the 430 does what a true luxury car should do better than the 460.
In addition, I felt like the interior materials in my 460L were cheaper in look and feel than the 430. Especially the leather. The leather in my 460L felt really cheap. Very thin and almost plastic-like.
There was very little that I liked about my 460L better my 430. Don't regret getting rid of it and going back to a 430 for a second. I firmly believe the 430 does what a true luxury car should do better than the 460.
05-27-15, 10:13 PM
#21
Yes I forgot about that.
My little 240D gets into parking spaces no other car can get into; and the LS430 is almost as nimble despite being 6 inches longer. The AWD system makes the turning radius in the 600h a bit bigger but I thought the TR for the regular 460 was comparable to the 430.
The 600h feels huge; even bigger than my 560 SEL which is another 6 inches longer. The LS430 is the Goldielocks car; not too big, not too small, just right.
I can't tell much difference between the seat leathers but the door leather in the 600h feels different; the panels are not gathered like on the 430. I also think this particular car did a stint in the sun somewhere for a while as I've had to do some rehabilitation to the exterior plastics; so I'm wondering if the door leather is just drier. The leather on top of the doorsills and dash oddly enough feels more supple and less dry; maybe it just took the conditioner better.
Reading my prior post it struck me that you might think I like the LS430 better; but the 460/600 has a much more modern design; better telematics / bluetooth; and the nav system is much newer. Also the radar cruise is more aggressive (and less annoying) about braking than the laser system in early LS430s; the car has more airbags; more safety tech, power rear window sunshades, a power trunklid, more power rear seat adjustments, true 4 zone climate control, blah blah blah. Plus you get keyless go as standard, a more powerful voice control system. plasmacluster air filtration; the list goes on and on.
I think it's best to just drive both and then decide for yourself which one you like better; but there is no bad choice between those two.
Now if I can just get over my strange desire for an LX....
My little 240D gets into parking spaces no other car can get into; and the LS430 is almost as nimble despite being 6 inches longer. The AWD system makes the turning radius in the 600h a bit bigger but I thought the TR for the regular 460 was comparable to the 430.
The 600h feels huge; even bigger than my 560 SEL which is another 6 inches longer. The LS430 is the Goldielocks car; not too big, not too small, just right.
I can't tell much difference between the seat leathers but the door leather in the 600h feels different; the panels are not gathered like on the 430. I also think this particular car did a stint in the sun somewhere for a while as I've had to do some rehabilitation to the exterior plastics; so I'm wondering if the door leather is just drier. The leather on top of the doorsills and dash oddly enough feels more supple and less dry; maybe it just took the conditioner better.
Reading my prior post it struck me that you might think I like the LS430 better; but the 460/600 has a much more modern design; better telematics / bluetooth; and the nav system is much newer. Also the radar cruise is more aggressive (and less annoying) about braking than the laser system in early LS430s; the car has more airbags; more safety tech, power rear window sunshades, a power trunklid, more power rear seat adjustments, true 4 zone climate control, blah blah blah. Plus you get keyless go as standard, a more powerful voice control system. plasmacluster air filtration; the list goes on and on.
I think it's best to just drive both and then decide for yourself which one you like better; but there is no bad choice between those two.
Now if I can just get over my strange desire for an LX....
Great post Jainla. Thanks for sharing your insight. The turning radius on the 430 is really fantastic. I think this is what makes it so easy to park. You know what's crazy. Lexus says its normal for the 460 to consume as much as 3 quarts of oil between changes. My 430 does not cosume really any oil I have ever noticed. Even at a 7500 miles oci.
Last edited by jainla; 05-27-15 at 10:45 PM.
05-27-15, 10:29 PM
#22
I'm surprised to read you have a cool box in your 600. I think they no longer offer this on 600's...only on 460L's.
05-27-15, 11:05 PM
#23
Still available in the 460 L however.
05-28-15, 12:57 PM
#24
Anyone of them is decent with maintenance and patience and a inspection. Earlier years are a great value not much more than an Avalon. 2004 -2006 you got a mid cycle refresh. Aside from being the 2 newest years, 05 and 06 I think an 04 is same LS and 2 04's have been stellar for me
05-28-15, 03:14 PM
#25
dude, its not a strange desire. I bought an 05 LX and of course love it. Anybody who recognizes truly outstanding auto design and engineering will enjoy the LX.....lexus attention to detail and quality on steroids.
ls and lx truly the pinnacle of automotive achievement...lx470 that is,,,lx570 getting away from it a bit
ls and lx truly the pinnacle of automotive achievement...lx470 that is,,,lx570 getting away from it a bit
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