thoughts on cars approaching mid 150,000 mileage
11-14-14, 07:05 AM
#46
the OP seems like the typical american, not a bad thing at all. But not like most of us on this board. Most of us are DIY'ers, and can work very efficiently and easily on these cars, in the unusual instance when something does break. It also sounds like he has a high sensitivity to risk and the possibility of something pricey breaking in the future.
his financial analysis seems to be limited to cash only.....not the way I'd look at it but to each his own.
btw, I tried to get my daughter to buy my LS, instead she went out and got a new Corolla, for similar reasons to the OP. Didn't agree with her at all but whatever...
his financial analysis seems to be limited to cash only.....not the way I'd look at it but to each his own.
btw, I tried to get my daughter to buy my LS, instead she went out and got a new Corolla, for similar reasons to the OP. Didn't agree with her at all but whatever...
11-14-14, 12:32 PM
#47
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
the original op
has a brain in his head and calculated that if he is spending 600 month driving 3000 miles a month using premium and has a new car payment with 2000 downside risk from a 20 k purchase, has a warranty and the car payment of 240 is paid for with gas savings. my new car is no ls in ride but i outlined the reasons for the decision and financally it makes sense, the days of 19.8 mpg average are over for the mass of the public. the most interesting thing is the car is safer than ls in front offset, brakes much better for safety, handles better when being pushed and you can floor the car and really beat on it and get 33 mpg highway casual foot and its 38 mpg
i will buy a is250 when they make the car in a turbo with being able to be used with regular gas,
at that point my 15k in financing will be down to 13 trade the car for about 18 with 20000 miles and all is golden,
safe driving to all and happy holidays
first part of post outlined my ecm was faulting, 1800 part and i dont have the funds for it
i will buy a is250 when they make the car in a turbo with being able to be used with regular gas,
at that point my 15k in financing will be down to 13 trade the car for about 18 with 20000 miles and all is golden,
safe driving to all and happy holidays
first part of post outlined my ecm was faulting, 1800 part and i dont have the funds for it
11-14-14, 04:16 PM
#48
I have to say, that many of the original poster's issues have not appeared during my ownership. Yes, the subwoofer is a given, and creaking from control arm bushings will occur. Of course spark plugs will need replacing eventually (although I haven't replaced mine after 116,000 miles). I have replaced one valve cover gasket and one oxygen sensor.......but let's think about this realistically. I purchased my LS430 used, and the cost per year for me is negligible with total reliability as a plus! Go to a BMW or Mercedes forum with the same original post. My LS430 is the best car I have ever owned in my lifeltime..... and I am a senior citizen. I'm even thinking about getting another one for my girlfriend.
11-14-14, 04:57 PM
#49
There is some squawk about a Honda. The LS is RWD with a V8. That is why I drive this auto and there is only a handful of these to compare to. Never thought to drive a 4 or 6 FWD, never will.
12-19-14, 08:39 AM
#50
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
update after 3 full months of ownership for all those thinking
of trading in there ls430
hi all just thought after my love for the ls430 i would share a realistic update that as owners are getting high mileage they can evaluate if it makes sense to trade the best car ever created the 430.
i will start with what i miss
that v8 power delivery low end and power on demand
the balance of the vehicle
the ride on highway cant be replicated
the large interior with seats that i believe were sub par but liked the feeling of them.
the 25mpg with cruise on
quietness. now for the interesting things that have made me realize my decision was right and didnt think about prior to my trade of a sub brand and lower category vehicle.
the tracking of the new car is awesome
the bluetooth integration for play of itunes radio and pandora is essential and great
integraton of bluetooth using google maps with the speakers is great
the newer ergonomic design of the interior controls of the japanese cars is even better than our ls
the 30.5 mpg i have been getting combined for 6000 miles on regular unleaded a welcome
the 38 mpg highway going 75-80 miles per hour didnt realize how you can kick down the new powertrains and high speeds and still get high mpg my ls was terrible as you kicked it down or increased speeds, let me to drive 69 or 70 for gas mileage. i know with the 6 speed not as much an issue
the comfort access to get in vehicle with key fob now key.. awesome missed this terribly again 02 had the key
the smaller vehicle doing 120 miles a day less fatiguing especially in city the older power steering and large vehicle take its toll all day long in city maneuvers..
so bottom line when you have alot of maintanence issues and you are not a mechanic in my case had 10 things going on and forgot in original thread had the paper clip noise from my servos in a/c never messed with it because ac was amazing and didnt want dash ripped out to repair plus it was a 1000 job. that i am glad i moved out my car got around 7500 on a trade and have a vehicle that i can go a year without any cost for maintanence issues...
happy holidays to all and all those who carry on with a car payment again if you save 320 a month in gas and pay 260 it nets 60 in savings a month in my calculations.
peace and love
hi all just thought after my love for the ls430 i would share a realistic update that as owners are getting high mileage they can evaluate if it makes sense to trade the best car ever created the 430.
i will start with what i miss
that v8 power delivery low end and power on demand
the balance of the vehicle
the ride on highway cant be replicated
the large interior with seats that i believe were sub par but liked the feeling of them.
the 25mpg with cruise on
quietness. now for the interesting things that have made me realize my decision was right and didnt think about prior to my trade of a sub brand and lower category vehicle.
the tracking of the new car is awesome
the bluetooth integration for play of itunes radio and pandora is essential and great
integraton of bluetooth using google maps with the speakers is great
the newer ergonomic design of the interior controls of the japanese cars is even better than our ls
the 30.5 mpg i have been getting combined for 6000 miles on regular unleaded a welcome
the 38 mpg highway going 75-80 miles per hour didnt realize how you can kick down the new powertrains and high speeds and still get high mpg my ls was terrible as you kicked it down or increased speeds, let me to drive 69 or 70 for gas mileage. i know with the 6 speed not as much an issue
the comfort access to get in vehicle with key fob now key.. awesome missed this terribly again 02 had the key
the smaller vehicle doing 120 miles a day less fatiguing especially in city the older power steering and large vehicle take its toll all day long in city maneuvers..
so bottom line when you have alot of maintanence issues and you are not a mechanic in my case had 10 things going on and forgot in original thread had the paper clip noise from my servos in a/c never messed with it because ac was amazing and didnt want dash ripped out to repair plus it was a 1000 job. that i am glad i moved out my car got around 7500 on a trade and have a vehicle that i can go a year without any cost for maintanence issues...
happy holidays to all and all those who carry on with a car payment again if you save 320 a month in gas and pay 260 it nets 60 in savings a month in my calculations.
peace and love
12-19-14, 03:02 PM
#51
Doesn't add up?
I'm glad you're happy with your new car. The only person that matters is you but the problem is something just doesn't add up. You say you've had the car for six months, and drove 6000 miles. That equates to 2000 miles a month. Using round numbers, in city highway combined mileage the Lexus got about 20 miles per gallon so driving 2000 miles a month you would use 100 gallons of gas at three dollars a gallon that's $300 a month. If your other car gets 30 miles per gallon combined Highway city you would use about 67 gallons of gas at three dollars a gallon equates to $200 a month. You're saving $100 a month so where are you coming up with a $300 savings?
Like I said I'm not questioning any other point versus your new car and the Lexus but in the total 6000 miles of combined driving you've driven the Lexus would've used approximately 300 gallons your new car would use approximately 200 gallons in at three dollars a gallon the total savings was $300 in three months or $100 per month
I am not in all questioning your decision to buy the new car that's your decision only. Just don't justify it saying that you're fuel savings is making your new car payment and additionally putting $60 in your pocket a month. It just doesn't add up
Like I said I'm not questioning any other point versus your new car and the Lexus but in the total 6000 miles of combined driving you've driven the Lexus would've used approximately 300 gallons your new car would use approximately 200 gallons in at three dollars a gallon the total savings was $300 in three months or $100 per month
I am not in all questioning your decision to buy the new car that's your decision only. Just don't justify it saying that you're fuel savings is making your new car payment and additionally putting $60 in your pocket a month. It just doesn't add up
Last edited by Brewmyown; 12-19-14 at 03:06 PM. Reason: Typo
12-19-14, 06:18 PM
#54
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
and fyi i love and miss my ls but it i am a car nut and timing was right based on economics and me feeling my car was going to start costing me a lot of money in investment
i am really surprised how much a 4 cylinder cvt can perform if i had it to do again i would have gotten the v6 didnt realize it gets 35 mpg on highway with cylinder deactivation
but didnt really want to spend 12 day on gas
i am really surprised how much a 4 cylinder cvt can perform if i had it to do again i would have gotten the v6 didnt realize it gets 35 mpg on highway with cylinder deactivation
but didnt really want to spend 12 day on gas
12-19-14, 08:46 PM
#55
Good for you being happy about your switch. That's great, all what matters is what YOU think and what makes you happy.
For me, I would never make the switch even if I was paid to do so, the LS430 is my most favorite car in the world. Couldn't have it any better.
For me, I would never make the switch even if I was paid to do so, the LS430 is my most favorite car in the world. Couldn't have it any better.
12-19-14, 09:39 PM
#56
Racer
hi all was hesitant to post this because i am a lover of lexus my ls400 and 430 but wanted to give a real evaluation that is not from motor trend and car and driver. for years i was always said because of my detail with being specific about cars and there attributes and faults i should write for the magazines. with that being said, i thought it was necessary to post this because there seems to be two different ls430 owners, those who own them regardless of cost for the ultimate in cars and history and those who are hesitant to get rid of history i fall in the latter category. i will post the pro and cons without getting granular if anyone wants more detail continue the post and i will chime in because i think you will get the sense that its time based on age and technology to start thinking about long term ownership costs. I also realize from reading the replys about door locks regulators and subwoofer and speak do it your selfers.. thats great and wish i could do that, but always enjoyed finding talented people who are the best and dont pay more than average for repairs..
for the record i bought an ex accord no leather so if your interested read below
Pros, Tracking and handling. wasnt expecting a front drive car to handle like this
Efficiency i am getting 30.6 avg combo city/hwy and can get 38mpg hwy w cruise at 78 mph
technology: not impressed over the top with it but having new tech bluetooth integrated and the newer interface with audio/bluetooth pandora , usb port has made a difference
Crusiing at high speeds without gas mileage penalty. my ls with the 5 speed automatic would decrease 10% from 67mph to 75 or 80 its nice not to have a penalty to travel at higher speeds
kick downs for power, not comparison of our v8 how amazing it was but i was hesitant to really use it because of conesequences of mpg can get on new car without an issue and its fun
cvt: surprised honda has done a remarkable job with this powertrain, no ls430 with a 4 cyl but amazing even smooth in econ mode off the line
Newness: nice to smell a new car, new leather on armrests new interfface I missed that with the ls
Long term support in seat a plus but i put seats as a con but they do support the body better
Safety: i wont dwell on this i saw the ridiculous post about safety.. our ls was designed in late nineties, there is no comparison in high steel strength especially in a pillars with newer cars that are exceeding expectations in offset crash test, yes if you get barrelled in from behind with a large car you will be more protected, but research for yourself and choose based on real tests
again no substitute for larger cars
Cons
the ride of our ls if you want that rwd drive and minimal feeling of road choose another car not the accord
comfort with seat, i miss a little the seat in my ls even with cushion worn but long trips are better w accord
v8 miss that under foot but the first part of post with mpg and efficience is more important
headlights are better on ls
transmission smoother with our 5 and 6 speeds even though the cvt was remarkable
allure of lexus and how its respected, even when were discreet the lexus badge is the best
hope you enjoyed the post , but going back to original post i have cut my expenses including insurance down by 350 / month and can use regular unleaded with having fun in the new vehicle .. enjoy your ls its the best every created but keep an open mind and if you decide to switch to another vehicle stick to the high end model including leather and options...
cheers thanks for the fun times on the board
for the record i bought an ex accord no leather so if your interested read below
Pros, Tracking and handling. wasnt expecting a front drive car to handle like this
Efficiency i am getting 30.6 avg combo city/hwy and can get 38mpg hwy w cruise at 78 mph
technology: not impressed over the top with it but having new tech bluetooth integrated and the newer interface with audio/bluetooth pandora , usb port has made a difference
Crusiing at high speeds without gas mileage penalty. my ls with the 5 speed automatic would decrease 10% from 67mph to 75 or 80 its nice not to have a penalty to travel at higher speeds
kick downs for power, not comparison of our v8 how amazing it was but i was hesitant to really use it because of conesequences of mpg can get on new car without an issue and its fun
cvt: surprised honda has done a remarkable job with this powertrain, no ls430 with a 4 cyl but amazing even smooth in econ mode off the line
Newness: nice to smell a new car, new leather on armrests new interfface I missed that with the ls
Long term support in seat a plus but i put seats as a con but they do support the body better
Safety: i wont dwell on this i saw the ridiculous post about safety.. our ls was designed in late nineties, there is no comparison in high steel strength especially in a pillars with newer cars that are exceeding expectations in offset crash test, yes if you get barrelled in from behind with a large car you will be more protected, but research for yourself and choose based on real tests
again no substitute for larger cars
Cons
the ride of our ls if you want that rwd drive and minimal feeling of road choose another car not the accord
comfort with seat, i miss a little the seat in my ls even with cushion worn but long trips are better w accord
v8 miss that under foot but the first part of post with mpg and efficience is more important
headlights are better on ls
transmission smoother with our 5 and 6 speeds even though the cvt was remarkable
allure of lexus and how its respected, even when were discreet the lexus badge is the best
hope you enjoyed the post , but going back to original post i have cut my expenses including insurance down by 350 / month and can use regular unleaded with having fun in the new vehicle .. enjoy your ls its the best every created but keep an open mind and if you decide to switch to another vehicle stick to the high end model including leather and options...
cheers thanks for the fun times on the board
I actually went to a Honda dealership in the fall. I sat in new and used Accords. I am 5' 11" and 190 pounds and the car was not roomy enough for me. Yes, I liked the design quite a bit, but the interior lacked the luxury I want. I wasn't even interested in how it drove because even if I could save $ 350 a month driving one I would still not want to.
Everyone here knows that driving an LS430, a heavy, luxury car with a V8 will be more expensive compared to a newer mid luxury 4 cylinder car that's financed at 1.9% or less. The Honda, or any 2 year old 4 cylinder car will use less gas, need fewer repairs, and when the car needs repairs they are less expensive. When you add in the car payment, there is still savings at the end of the month.
I like my LS, and after four years of owning it, it's worth it to me to pay the additional cost to own and drive it. When its not, I am sure my next car will be newer, a bit smaller and more fuel efficient. It may be a Honda CR-V, but it won't be an Accord
12-20-14, 05:44 AM
#57
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
stu i agree
i would have liked to drive mine for another 4 years
but what i realized is the trade off of some of our 430 benefits are offset with a complete ownership experience with a newer designed, technology full, economical choice
i was trying to put some perspective that instead of being scared to jump to a new car open the mind and if tim ing is right and issues with a vehicle like mine with the ecm, ac system and valve cover gaskets, power window and door lock issues and timing belt water pump due i rather have peace of mind, after 12 years of life there is a mean to failure that will catch up with all of us with componenet failure,
just walking up to the car putting my hand on the door and all 4 doors opening 10 times a day is a huge help for me, like i said its no ls and even an es350 would have been better but didnt have 40 k or want the v6 fuel mileage of 22mpg combined was looking for cars approaching that 30 mpg combined with regular unleaded i am not after 6500 at 30.5
enjoy the holiday
but what i realized is the trade off of some of our 430 benefits are offset with a complete ownership experience with a newer designed, technology full, economical choice
i was trying to put some perspective that instead of being scared to jump to a new car open the mind and if tim ing is right and issues with a vehicle like mine with the ecm, ac system and valve cover gaskets, power window and door lock issues and timing belt water pump due i rather have peace of mind, after 12 years of life there is a mean to failure that will catch up with all of us with componenet failure,
just walking up to the car putting my hand on the door and all 4 doors opening 10 times a day is a huge help for me, like i said its no ls and even an es350 would have been better but didnt have 40 k or want the v6 fuel mileage of 22mpg combined was looking for cars approaching that 30 mpg combined with regular unleaded i am not after 6500 at 30.5
enjoy the holiday
12-20-14, 05:52 AM
#58
Moderator
In 90% of cases the transaction costs of selling/trading old car and buying new car along with the higher depreciation on new car eat ups up any near term savings to be gained by saving on MPG between old and new cars. Sadly most consumers have a limited grasp of true costs involved - so car salesmen and dealer finance guys absolutely love folks that come into the dealership looking to "save money" by getting a car that gets better mileage...it is typically a sucker move.
Even if you completely ignore transaction costs and use example of buying a regular gas powered car or same exact model hybrid - like 4 cyl Camry versus hybrid Camry - the increase cost for the hybrid doesn't pay back until you have driven 80k+ miles. And with gas prices going down instead of up (although this is temp condition) the paybacks get longer. Financially savvy folks know they are buying hybrids because they want to do good for the planet and be green, they are not saving money.
If someone is driving 20k miles a year and goes from a 22 mpg to 30 mpg average car (at 3.50 gal gas) they will save $848 per year or $70.66 per month. Transaction costs for buying and selling any two decent cars is at a minimum typically something like 2200 (could be and often is way more) and lets assume a minimal 800 more depreciation per year on the newer car so assuming $3,000 first year cost it's 3.5 years and driving 70k more miles to just get to break even on first year costs (and that's ignoring added net depreciation in forward years and likely increased insurance and tax/tag costs).
People running businesses and running vehicles at 60k+ miles a year break earlier but even they need to carefully put pen to paper to work the ALL the numbers on breakeven before they rush out to "save money" on gas.
Even if you completely ignore transaction costs and use example of buying a regular gas powered car or same exact model hybrid - like 4 cyl Camry versus hybrid Camry - the increase cost for the hybrid doesn't pay back until you have driven 80k+ miles. And with gas prices going down instead of up (although this is temp condition) the paybacks get longer. Financially savvy folks know they are buying hybrids because they want to do good for the planet and be green, they are not saving money.
If someone is driving 20k miles a year and goes from a 22 mpg to 30 mpg average car (at 3.50 gal gas) they will save $848 per year or $70.66 per month. Transaction costs for buying and selling any two decent cars is at a minimum typically something like 2200 (could be and often is way more) and lets assume a minimal 800 more depreciation per year on the newer car so assuming $3,000 first year cost it's 3.5 years and driving 70k more miles to just get to break even on first year costs (and that's ignoring added net depreciation in forward years and likely increased insurance and tax/tag costs).
People running businesses and running vehicles at 60k+ miles a year break earlier but even they need to carefully put pen to paper to work the ALL the numbers on breakeven before they rush out to "save money" on gas.
Last edited by Jabberwock; 12-20-14 at 07:20 AM.
12-20-14, 06:08 AM
#59
It's quIte simple really. My next car will be another, perhaps newer, LS. Tops in reliability. Tops in comfort. It's why we bought an LS to begin with. So why go backwards now?
12-20-14, 06:33 AM
#60
Ok, one last attempt at this and this is plain and simple math and doesn't take anything else into account. You said you drove 6,500 miles since October 5th. At a combined 30 mpg. That's 217 gallons of gas. Where I live its $2.27 a gallon today for regular so that's $493. Driving the same miles in the LS at a combined 20 mpg it would use 325 gallons of gas and premium is $2.51 today so that's $815. $815 - $493 = $322 divided by 11 weeks (since October 5th) and that's $29 a week. There's an average of 4.33 weeks in a month so $29 x 4.33 weeks is $125 a month is total fuel savings.
The fuel savings is not paying for your car and putting money in your pocket. It's great that you love your new car and the only one that matters is you but I think you need to fix your calculator.
The fuel savings is not paying for your car and putting money in your pocket. It's great that you love your new car and the only one that matters is you but I think you need to fix your calculator.