toddmorr

yowsa...5 min on mbworld and I think anybody needs to take a deep breath before buying one of these cars. I was struck by the sheer number and variety of issues...as opposed to our LS 430, where we are all well aware of the same half dozen issues, and that's about it. So were I to take the plunge, it would only be for a one owner, well maintained and documented car. don't think you have to be quite that picky with the LS

gomboy60

Purchased three Lexus up to this point in life, 97 ES300 with 14k, now at 260k, back in 2001for $16k, 03 RX300 with 65k, now at 160k, in 2009 for $12.5k. The most recent one 05 LS430 with 25k miles, now at 35k, for $25k back in Dec 2012. I have a feeling I paid tad bit more than I should have for the LS but the color (cypress green) and low miles (super clean also) really did appeal to me.
Bottom line, none of the three required more than minor repairs and typical maintenance (such as engine or tranny work ). The original timing belt from RX after 150k miles looked as new, back in July 2012. I still have all three cars and intend to drive them into the ground. Of course, none of the cars that I have driven can top the quite and comfy ride that I enjoy from LS, not to mention excellent sound system. It just feels world-apart from any other cars, at almost 1/3 of the initial price.

Go with Lexus (with usual caution and caveats that go with in buying used car) and you will enjoy the car for years to come. And always use OEM replacement parts since they are superbly manufactured.

rogers2

I guess it all depends on the person. I would never purchase a luxury car without a warranty. I'm very rough on cars. Even my lowly Lexus IS250 needed 3 wheel bearings after 4 months of ownership. I have own a Mercedes CL for the past 8 years. A person would have to be crazy or know someone who fixes cars to own one without a warranty. Honestly a car with 50k miles isn't new.

For example:
No matter how pretty a 50 years old woman looks she still has some wear on her. Sorry.
She will never look or feel 25 years old again.

Stop trying to ball for cheap. It's nothing wrong with purchasing a new Camry or Accord. I laugh when people go out and purchase a 2006 or 07 vehicle with 100k. Dude it's almost 2014.

But hey it's your money...

Say what you want but it's not the same.

AJT123

I don't want a cookie cutter car where I'll see 3 dozen clones every time I drive. I drive an almost 10 year old LS, and there's nothing else I'd rather drive. I like driving the flagship of Lexus, and it's so utterly reliable and well built that I have absolutely no worries! Driving an old Lexus is vastly different than an old Mercedes, BMW, or even Infiniti.

1WILLY1

iTrader: (9)

I spent 3 months on Benzworld, I was almost banned a few times for bringing up all the issues I was seeing, they thought I was 'trolling"

Benz owners are very proud of that badge, and are in denial most times about how unreliable and problematic they really are, so never take the word of a current Benz owner with regards to the cost and problems of owning one.

Bmw and audi (other german vehicles) are pretty much the same story from what ive heard.

The LS is very rare around here, I hardly ever see one on the road, which is great.

rogers2

You drive an almost 10 year old LS, and there's nothing else you rather be driving..

Oh really, sorry I don't believe you.

Tell that to someone else. Maybe a Ferrari or Aston Martin but a LS430 Sorry

The LS430 was great during it's time. No doubt
But now it's just a reliable dinosaur. I undestand the attachment. I felt the same way about my 91 NSX. I luv that car.

But for a minute think about how much has change in the past 11 years.
Wouldn't a nice LS460 or S550 bring a bigger smile to your face.

AJT123

Oh I know what you mean, lol, don't get me wrong I'm a HUGE MB fan but they're not perfect. Some are absolute lustworthy gems but others are literally junk.

My favorite is the fanboys over there who just can't admit that the W220 sucks. I got into a huge debate over there....I mean the S Class (W140) is my favorite car of all time, easy, but there's no denying that the W220 was the worst S-Class ever, sub-par build quality, kooky electronics, etc., this list goes on.

I gave my opinion that the LS430 is superior car to the W220 and WHOAAAA watch out, lol. Anyway I'm going off on a rant here...lol I might add that said forum I posted in was even titled "W220 UTTER PIECES OF JUNK!!!"

Basically, yeah. I would never own one out of warranty.


There are LS430s around town, but I would hardly call them common. Mine is the only one in town that I've seen with limo tint.

AJT123

There is nothing else for the money that comes even close, that's what I mean. For the money I paid for it there isn't another car in the world that I'd rather drive. If god-forbid something happened to it, the first thing I would do is look for another one.

The icing on the cake is that it really is one of the best cars ever made, new, old, purple, whatever.

Every single time I drive my "dinosaur" I still can feel the engineering that went into it. It may not be a cutting edge new design, but I can still feel the excellence in its bones.

Of course it would, but those two cars are unattainable to me. A new '13 LS460, yeah, but I'd take my 430 over an early 460 build all day long.

gomboy60

I will second the opinion of staying away from used / new European cars (the quality of MB, for example, has gone down the tube for last decade and their part/labor is so expensive) like some of you have opined, with or without any extended warranty. Like one stated, it all depends on person. Are you willing to spend 70k for new Lexus or wait patiently for few years to be able to get hands on a well-maintained used one at a reasonable price. I will choose the latter any time. (Personally, I would not even go near any used European car, that is just me).
After all, I am not updating my car every couple of years to keep up with Jones or into enjoying the latest technology. It is not worth wasting my hard-earn money just to impress others with brand new car nor I have the desire to drive around in Ferrari or AM, even if I have the means. Also, it makes whole lot of environmental senses at the same time, by taking care of your car and maintain properly so it can last as long as it is designed to last. As a current owner of three Lexus vehicles, I am clearly convinced about the built-quality, durability /reliability of the make. At the same time, I am also happily biased too.

Jabberwock

Rogers -

Nice that you bring a fresh perspective to this discussion. There is certainly an undeniable appeal to drive the latest high tech luxury car. But everyone is different. I'm old so my perspective is gonna be different than a younger person also.

Here is why I drive an LS430 - I want a nice comfortable super reliable safe powerful luxury car. I specifically don't want to be noticed in any way when I am out in the world driving around. I would not be caught dead driving an Aston Martin or Ferrari out on the streets. The LS430 fills that need and because it is a little older and very classic it blends right (in my local area anyway) in pretty stealthy fashion. Also a major factor is that I hate the crappy high technology proprietary GUIs that are in latest cars. I am in the high tech business and have no phobia at all, but in my judgement current driver GUIs are such horrendous and potentially dangerous crap it makes me crazy to deal with them. So again the LS with its fairly simple controls makes me happy to own it. I actually drove a GS350 recently - very nice car but that car's GUI interface and terrible mouse controller it has is just awful and that's being generous.

I am lucky enough to not be particularly budget constrained for most cars I would want. I paid 33 k in mid 2009 for my 2006 LS430 CPO with 13k miles on it and it was 100% show room pristine. Given the car's condition and CPO from Lexus the experience for us was exactly like buying brand new except we got the car at nearly 50% discount. Owned that car 4 years and it has been totally bullet proof. I diy a lot of simple maint so my maint bills have been laughably small. As an example I put new front and rear brake pads on the LS for for $50 per axle and it is super easy to do.

But even with adequate financial means I am the kind of cheap old geezer that would have a huge pucker factor in spending let's say $90-100k for a new car. I'm 58 yo so that kind of spend just seems silly to me and actually equates at this point in my life to 1-2 years of extra work instead of retiring soon which is in my sights. Now if I had CEO type budget I would just likely buy brand new (Audi, MB, Lexus, Jag, whatever) and swap out every 2-3 years but that is not where I am at and not where 99% of folks on this forum are in terms of budget.

My educated guess is that lot of us older members on the forum are very interested in riding the absolute top of the value curve in terms of owning great luxury cars at minimum cost and for many here that equates to owning an older LS430.

So while I'd think about driving a 2-3 year old 7 series or a Porsche Panamera I just can't see spending that kind of money on maintaining a less reliable car that costs $400 for oil change, etc.

I do understand where you coming from, and what you write is absolutely valid and well reasoned from your perspective. However different folks can have completely different perspectives and value sets in how they view these cars. Can there be such a thing as a stealth baller?...maybe just check for the stainless Omega watch instead of the gold Rolex : )

1WILLY1

iTrader: (9)

Since when does age take away from a cars beauty?

I still love the SC400 and its over 20 years old, I would take that car over most of the new cars today.

I guess it comes down to being a car enthusiast, or more of a guy that wants to be up with all the new tech and the new trends.

I for one am very loyal to cars that I love, and just because they are now getting older, doesn't make me love them any less.

funny you mention that cause it was the w220 platform that got me into wanting a benz, the S55's in particular, they are monsters at 490hp, and they can be had now for pretty much the same cost as an LS430, so I decided to jump in the forums and find out what they are really like.

Fact is they are rife with issues, very rarely do u see a post of someone modifying or upgrading anything, all of their time is spent chasing down problems.

Its a shame because they have the looks and the power to make them a really great car, they just don't have the reliability and bullet proof engineering that guys like me crave.

Im not rich by any means, and I cant afford a car that constantly needs repairs.

JerryT

My guess is there are a whole lot of people driving 6 year old BMWs and MBs that want the badge bad enough to pay whatever to keep them on the road. Which is a fraction of what the same car would cost new no matter how you slice it..
I have no doubt a Japanese , in particular, a Toyota product is going to be built better than a European product with any badge, But I don't buy the catastrophic ownership of European used vehicles as anything more than "more likely" but not "inevitable". Personally I would not want a MB or BMW or anything that reeks of pretension....The Omega vs Rolex example is a good one. Stealthy luxury is the way for me.

I was just reading here that even Lexus buyers would not buy a used Lexus without some kind of Extended Service protection, I find it interesting they have no problem dropping $20K++ in depreciation but fear a $5000 repair bill. When you come down to it Ford and Chevy buyers buy those VSCs and finance them !

Seems the industry has done its job creating a better more reliable product and instilling fear of repairs at the same time.....Genius,

AJT123

Oh yeah man don't get me wrong, on the surface a W220 was a very desirable car. Unfortunately it was a mess mechanically. And like I said, I'm a huge MB fan. A W220 with the AMG wheels and body effects looks miles better than any LS430 ever will. However, said good looks, S class cachet/heritage, and a slightly more aggressive chassis are THE ONLY advantages it has. Everything else, and I mean EVERYTHING, the LS430 wipes the floor with it. The LS430 was the W140 of the LS line, obviously so overbuilt...except everything works flawlessly and it's dead reliable.

warminwisc

I have had Japanese auto's for many years and the LS is like the 1998 Honda and old Corolla I have had, never needed anything besides normal wear tires brakes etc. Now having said that yes other manufacturers are becoming as reliable as noted by JD and CR and having driven a 013 Altima and even a 013 Cruz these are nice, safe reliable comfortable cars in their class which appeal to many people who want to get in and drive a $20-30k FWD gas sipper with gadgets which amuse them.

As the LS ages, and to a certain point it is an elegant dinosaur. It does not tell you when you are on the line, or a car is in your blind spot or TPMS and all would be nice but you still pay dearly for these features on some models and in a luxury auto with these features you will pay dearly. I have an 012 German auto I prefer over my LS but there are costs and reliability issues I do not see in my 04 LS, nor would I own a German auto out of warrantee, but a Japanese auto I would(really in my experience the LS is cheap to keep).

Think of what you do get, including stab trac on a smooth balanced RWD V8 which keeps ya out of trouble in any weather, a spacious quiet cabin sealed like a drum with door hinges of 1/4 inch plate steel and airbags galore in a 2 ton anti crush box. Gas mileage which is pretty decent in more rural highway driving and a quiet elegance unlike the German auto's with snob appeal.

I think for the money as they have aged if you are looking for RWD V8 with passing power and balanced handling it is a pretty darned good used car to consider as others trade in the LS or take the risk on an A8, S430 Jag but in tests in its class in the years of production the LS was always rated as being right up there with the Germans with bulletproof reliabilty and design and function. "If you are happy with the 430 keep it" I was told by the lead tech at my Lexus dealer insinuating all the gadgets and technology of the 460 come at a price.

So it is a dinosaur I look at and smile every day as the old days are well worth preserving. Who can remember walking home for lunch as a kid, playing baseball and football with the neighbor kids versus hand help gadgets to amuse you and walking your loved ones right to the plane to say good by? Others must agree as you see nice sales numbers of the Camaro's and Avengers as other folks are looking to keep a bit of old school in their hands also.

Kira X

iTrader: (24)

I've been a member on there for quite some time and noticed the same thing. I wanted a W220 S600 or an R230 SL500/SL55 and the horror stories of maintenance costs were what made me pick the LS instead. It's a shame because I love Mercedes but the ones from 2000 to 2006 just suck.

If you type LS430 into the search bar at MB World you will find that they hate Lexus and the LS430 more than anything. They see it as a boring, crappy W140 knock off. It's very interesting considering how unreliable the W220 is.

Actually I'd rather drive my LS over most new luxury cars as well. I'd take the LS430 over an LS460 but the current S600 and 760Li would put a massive smile on my face. The 97-99 S-Class would be a good replacement for my LS too.

Where I live Aston Martins, Ferraris, Lamborghinis, and Bentleys are pretty common and I see one almost every day. I lost interest in driving those kind of cars over the years since I've seen them all so much. The only exotics that interest me now are the old school Lamborghini Diablo and the Ferrari Testarossa and Enzo.