BlakeLS

Thanks in advance for everyone's insights.

Last November I had valve cover gaskets + tube seals replaced by former Lexus tech (Lexus of Cherry Hills) named Doug I found through CL forum member Roshko in this thread.

This past April while chasing an uneven idle, I pulled coil packs noticed all 8 tube seals were leaking oil. Doug used Fel Pro, he refunded my money and I decided to redo the job myself with Lexus/Toyota parts ordered from dealer.

When I removed the valve covers I found Doug ground off all 4 of the ventilation tabs / claws for every tube seal (photo 2). I reached out to Doug and he says this is common practice at the Lexus dealer.

When I popped off the Fel Pro seals, the seals popped off easily and there's plenty of oil between the tube seals and the valve cover (photo 3).

Is the lack of the tabs the reason of leaks? If so are there solutions apart from new valve covers? Doug stated he refuses to pay for new valve covers and lack of tabs isn't the cause of the leak. My work provide legal plans so hiring lawyer is a potential option for money recovery.

This CL thread with the work manual clearly states the tabs should be bent and then put back.

biosurfer1

I worked at Toyota/Lexus dealerships for 6 years and can state with 100% certainty that grinding off retention tabs is NEVER advised or common.

Bylan

What in the world? Looks like there's a reason he is a Former Lexus tech. The Lexus Service manual literally states to pry the tabs up gently, and hammer back down after seal replacement. Very easy, done it a few times myself. The lack of tabs is absolutely the reason for the oil leaks. I even used the same Fel-Pro seals, no leaks on any of my LS's.
You will need new valve covers, unless a new seal retaining tab can be fabbed. I wouldn't deal with the hassle and just replace the valve covers with some used ones.

Striker223

Uh you are supposed to very carefully pry them up and then tap them back, it takes a minute but they are the only thing aside from just friction holding the tube seals in. It's not like other designs that have the gasket sandwiched between something

The Felpro seals themselves are good and I've never had an issue on hundreds of cars with them.

Gumart1

The bigger issue is how did all that grass get into your intake?? Just kidding. To cover yourself, did Doug admit in writing to breaking off the tabs? That would be more favorable than on a phone call. You might also want to ask your Lexus Dealer to back in writing their professional opinion that the broken tabs directly caused the leak (which we know is true). Perhaps Doug quickly refunded your money with the hopes that he was in the clear. Did you have any sort of written contract with Doug for the work?

BlakeLS

Thanks everyone.

I have:

1. receipt for the work
2. a photo Doug texted me while doing the job showing the valve covers had the tabs when he took them off
3. text from him this afternoon stating taking off the tabs is the way, even stated dealer does it the same way. Perhaps I should reach out to Lexus of Cherry Hill for a comment?

So it appears I have a case to claim compensation for the cost of new valve covers?

YODAONE

They are ruined for sure...

Ask Lexus for a written quote:
parts and labor.

Here's my question...what happened to all the metal shavings from the grinding operation?

Did Master Mechanic flush the valve covers of all the metal shavings (tabs) off or did he just bolt it back together?

Inspect for other damage, if so you may have an insurance claim.

Let them deal with skippy.

BlakeLS

Thank you YODAONE. 1 question, by insurance to you mean auto insurance and if so is there a specific term for this? I searched and couldn't find anything on auto insurance covering repairs, so perhaps I'm not searching the correct terms.

YODAONE

What you got was anything but a "repair.".

Your vehicle sustained damages such that parts must be replaced.

The procedure is to obtain 3 estimates; new parts and labor, then propounded a demand letter on the vendor.

If the vendor refuses to pay damages on valve covers and dealer labor, then turn it over to your insurance for action.

If metal shavings in the engine, then estimate on replacement engine.

The engine may exceed the blue book value, so you have to sort it out if it comes to that.
.
Avoid verbal on any of this, so everything in writing.

CSA

Insurance in all likelihood will not cover bad repairs if that's what happened.

YODAONE

Must the other person be driving a car to damage your vehicle?

Does the identity of the offender have to be anonymous if not driving to make a claim?

Is engine damage covered under the policy?

Does irreparable damage expensive engine components constitute a "bad repair". (A good repair won't cure it because here the part must be replaced)

Was the damage foreseeable?

I agree, if you say bad repair, instead of damage, then insurer may not engage.

It is worth inquiry if Indy does not pay.

CSA

A car owner's policy covers third party claims against the car owner, such as in the case of a collision, and first party claims by the car owner for loss to the insured vehicle resulting from a specified covered peril. Losses resulting from faulty repairs in all likelihood are not covered.

YODAONE

This goes beyond faulty repairs...
He damaged engine parts beyond repair.
It's all moot if illustrious mechanic pays for damage he caused.

If not, he confers with his insurance company.

Have seen homeowners policy pay claims on repairing poor workmanship on homes, and then the Insurer goes after workman..
...was saving that factoid.

TominPT

If OP's insurance balks at coverage of this minor disaster, and "Doug" refuses to pay for a dealer to install two new valve covers, gaskets and tube seals to correct his mistake, then you have two other options:
1) get the written estimate from the Lexus dealer for the above work and pursue a small claims court action against "Doug" for that amount.
2) give Doug the option to source new valve covers, and redo the work for free (parts and labor) as per the Lexus service manual. If he balks at that, pursue option 1).

It it were me I would not make noises about engine damage now, either to "Doug" or the insurance company, as we have the following situation:
a. the OP drove the car from November to April apparently and any engine damage that may surface now or later might be difficult to prove to be the fault of "Doug."
b. so far this thread does not present proof now that the engine is in fact damaged by "Doug's" bad repair.

I would guess that when Doug ground off the tabs he did it on a work bench away from the car, not over the open engine. That seems the most likely scenario.

YODAONE

Doug should not perform further work on this vehicle.

You give up certain rights when you go back to the person who caused the damage the first time..then they break something else...