How Long do 3UZ-FE Timing Belts Last? 138,674 miles.
08-15-13, 12:19 PM
#1
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How Long do 3UZ-FE Timing Belts Last? 138,674 miles.
Hello friends:
I believe that the worst mistakes are hidden mistakes. I have made a very expensive mistake and want to share it with you as a cautionary tale. I admit being foolish up front. I am not defending my decisions, but I will explain them in hopes they will assist in your decisions.
In short, I delayed replacing my timing belt--too long. It was actually on order when my wife called to report that our 2001 LS430 had stopped dead on the 405 freeway.
I purchased the Arizona car with 195,000 miles for an incredible price from a truck fleet manager. He was absolutely meticulous about maintenance, and the car averaged less than 5,000 miles between dealer-completed oil changes over its entire life. When I bought it, it was due for a timing belt, but because it ran so perfectly, I thought I could wait. I waited too long while I addressed struts, door switches, etc. At 237,850, without any warning except the odometer, it let go suddenly.
I am still unsure of the entirety of the damage, but I am pulling the engine out and disassembling it to see if it is worth repairing, (I've done a few engine rebuilds in my day). The oil-related engine components appear pristine. I've never seen a prettier engine interior. It appears that an aluminum stud on the oil pump for a timing belt roller may have given way (snapped off), pinching the belt against the side of the belt housing, causing the belt to separate. OR, the belt broke and flailed enough that it broke the stud. Unsure. I am fairly sure that I have bent valves and/or pistons. There was a puddle of motor oil in the air intake plenum.
My current plan is to have the heads redone by a machine shop and swap out pistons, rods and bearings, ream and hone the cylinders, and rebuild this thing. Open to suggestions. I'll keep you posted in case anybody is interested. I have the two volume shop manual, and that's invaluable.
I believe that the worst mistakes are hidden mistakes. I have made a very expensive mistake and want to share it with you as a cautionary tale. I admit being foolish up front. I am not defending my decisions, but I will explain them in hopes they will assist in your decisions.
In short, I delayed replacing my timing belt--too long. It was actually on order when my wife called to report that our 2001 LS430 had stopped dead on the 405 freeway.
I purchased the Arizona car with 195,000 miles for an incredible price from a truck fleet manager. He was absolutely meticulous about maintenance, and the car averaged less than 5,000 miles between dealer-completed oil changes over its entire life. When I bought it, it was due for a timing belt, but because it ran so perfectly, I thought I could wait. I waited too long while I addressed struts, door switches, etc. At 237,850, without any warning except the odometer, it let go suddenly.
I am still unsure of the entirety of the damage, but I am pulling the engine out and disassembling it to see if it is worth repairing, (I've done a few engine rebuilds in my day). The oil-related engine components appear pristine. I've never seen a prettier engine interior. It appears that an aluminum stud on the oil pump for a timing belt roller may have given way (snapped off), pinching the belt against the side of the belt housing, causing the belt to separate. OR, the belt broke and flailed enough that it broke the stud. Unsure. I am fairly sure that I have bent valves and/or pistons. There was a puddle of motor oil in the air intake plenum.
My current plan is to have the heads redone by a machine shop and swap out pistons, rods and bearings, ream and hone the cylinders, and rebuild this thing. Open to suggestions. I'll keep you posted in case anybody is interested. I have the two volume shop manual, and that's invaluable.
08-15-13, 12:34 PM
#2
Thats it!!! Im at 138k now and you've just scared me straight! Timing belt will be done within a couple of weeks. Only thing is I really dont wanna go the dealer route($$$) and im afraid of someone else messing my engine up. Planning on giving my moms this car and i need it to almost perfect when i do with no worries.
Anyway, you could see what prices are like for a salvaged engine. If not too expensive then weigh the cost/time of rebuilding it against a replacement.
Anyway, you could see what prices are like for a salvaged engine. If not too expensive then weigh the cost/time of rebuilding it against a replacement.
Last edited by Slvr surfr; 08-15-13 at 02:47 PM.
08-15-13, 01:10 PM
#3
This is the first time I've heard of this happening on a 3UZ. I just hit 100,000 miles a while back and I was holding off on putting the belt on for a few more months. Maybe I'll go ahead and do it a lot sooner.
Keep us posted! I'd be interested in seeing how this turns out.
Keep us posted! I'd be interested in seeing how this turns out.
08-15-13, 01:23 PM
#4
Lexus Test Driver
Guys, the car has 237k miles. And for all we know only the timing belt was replaced the first time around.
And, the OP states it's possible the timing belt roller broke. If that's the case, then you all have nothing to worry about with being at 100k miles.
His timing belt has 138k miles, but the roller, etc had 237k miles as far as we know.
And, the OP states it's possible the timing belt roller broke. If that's the case, then you all have nothing to worry about with being at 100k miles.
His timing belt has 138k miles, but the roller, etc had 237k miles as far as we know.
08-15-13, 03:28 PM
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First, some thoughts:
1. 135,000 is almost exactly 50% OVER the recommended 90,000 miles. Years ago, when I was flying helicopters for "the gummint" I was the unit maintenance officer. It was standard for helicopter parts to be tested by the FAA to failure, and a replacement interval set at half or 75% of the failure point. Wonder what Lexus considers the likely failure point?
2. YES, I believe I likely had a failure which broke the timing belt rather than the timing belt breaking on its own. Reasons I believe this:
a. The timing belt was broken at almost a 90 degree angle to it's longitudinal access--"straight across." I saw no other wear patches.
b. Attached photo shows the broken stud area: From the center of the removed water-pump housing, go down to the 5:00 position onto the oil pump fixture. You will notice a shiny area about the size of a half-dollar. That is the area from which the stud broke. When I found the stud, it was still partially connected, and the roller had the remnant of the timing belt pinned against the side of the case.
c. That said, it might be possible that the timing belt broke and flailed around and broke the stud. That doesn't sound very likely to me. Also, I have not heard of a 3UZ-FE breaking a timing belt before. Again, I'm sure it's happened, I just haven't heard of it or seen it.
3. YES, the engine had 237,850 miles on it. Until 195,000, ALL maintenance was completed by Chandler (AZ) Lexus.
4. Going back in the records, the timing belt was replaced just after 100,000 miles, but I see no change of ancillary systems like rollers or water pump, etc.
5. FWIW, the cylinder heads and all oil-protected surfaces look like they're out of a brand new car. Impressive proof of the value of regular oil changes. This car had 46 OIL CHANGES! Do the math. The only thing in the oil system that should have worn out was the oil pan sump drain bolt.
6. The stud, I believe, failed because of metal fatigue. It is a "dry" part.[ATTACH]294393
1. 135,000 is almost exactly 50% OVER the recommended 90,000 miles. Years ago, when I was flying helicopters for "the gummint" I was the unit maintenance officer. It was standard for helicopter parts to be tested by the FAA to failure, and a replacement interval set at half or 75% of the failure point. Wonder what Lexus considers the likely failure point?
2. YES, I believe I likely had a failure which broke the timing belt rather than the timing belt breaking on its own. Reasons I believe this:
a. The timing belt was broken at almost a 90 degree angle to it's longitudinal access--"straight across." I saw no other wear patches.
b. Attached photo shows the broken stud area: From the center of the removed water-pump housing, go down to the 5:00 position onto the oil pump fixture. You will notice a shiny area about the size of a half-dollar. That is the area from which the stud broke. When I found the stud, it was still partially connected, and the roller had the remnant of the timing belt pinned against the side of the case.
c. That said, it might be possible that the timing belt broke and flailed around and broke the stud. That doesn't sound very likely to me. Also, I have not heard of a 3UZ-FE breaking a timing belt before. Again, I'm sure it's happened, I just haven't heard of it or seen it.
3. YES, the engine had 237,850 miles on it. Until 195,000, ALL maintenance was completed by Chandler (AZ) Lexus.
4. Going back in the records, the timing belt was replaced just after 100,000 miles, but I see no change of ancillary systems like rollers or water pump, etc.
5. FWIW, the cylinder heads and all oil-protected surfaces look like they're out of a brand new car. Impressive proof of the value of regular oil changes. This car had 46 OIL CHANGES! Do the math. The only thing in the oil system that should have worn out was the oil pan sump drain bolt.
6. The stud, I believe, failed because of metal fatigue. It is a "dry" part.[ATTACH]294393
Last edited by 407Steve; 08-15-13 at 04:38 PM. Reason: delete photo
08-15-13, 06:04 PM
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I got my timing belt and water pump done at Johnson Lexus in Durham, NC 3 weeks ago. Cost $1500.
They had another LS430 right beside mine where he got the timing belt done at a local mechanic and had slipped and spanked the valves and toasted the motor. Cost $22,000
Timing belt is for real men on this beast.
They had another LS430 right beside mine where he got the timing belt done at a local mechanic and had slipped and spanked the valves and toasted the motor. Cost $22,000
Timing belt is for real men on this beast.
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08-15-13, 06:28 PM
#8
Lead Lap
A timing belt breaking due to fatigue is almost unheard of. They almost always break or are damaged by the failure of another component - idler, tensioner, water pump. The timing belt on my first Lexus LS was "taken out" in the early 1990's at only about 75,000 miles when its original water pump seized.
Always insist that the all ancillary parts including the idlers, tensioner and water pump are replaced when the timing belt is replaced - doing so costs only a couple hundred bucks more.
Always insist that the all ancillary parts including the idlers, tensioner and water pump are replaced when the timing belt is replaced - doing so costs only a couple hundred bucks more.
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bjchilds1 (12-21-21)
08-15-13, 08:32 PM
#10
Moderator
Sorry this happened to you. Thanks very much for taking the time and sharing the pictures and great information. Very much appreciated.
08-15-13, 09:03 PM
#11
Lexus of Chandler could have charged the original owner for a "full" timing belt service (ie water pump, idler, tensioner, etc) for $1,500+ but just swapped the belt out, leaving all the original equipment behind. A technician cutting corners to make time? That particular pulley could be original with 237,000 miles on it.
I really hate interference engines, I think the advantages are limited for a design that can grenade your engine if something like a $10 bearing seizes up. Lexus makes other cars with timing belts, but a non-intereference design.
I really hate interference engines, I think the advantages are limited for a design that can grenade your engine if something like a $10 bearing seizes up. Lexus makes other cars with timing belts, but a non-intereference design.
08-15-13, 09:09 PM
#12
I got my timing belt and water pump done at Johnson Lexus in Durham, NC 3 weeks ago. Cost $1500.
They had another LS430 right beside mine where he got the timing belt done at a local mechanic and had slipped and spanked the valves and toasted the motor. Cost $22,000
Timing belt is for real men on this beast.
They had another LS430 right beside mine where he got the timing belt done at a local mechanic and had slipped and spanked the valves and toasted the motor. Cost $22,000
Timing belt is for real men on this beast.
Someone is being ripped a new one. I don't believe this. Someone would have to be very stupid to pay that much for even a new motor...
08-16-13, 12:18 AM
#14
Lexus Champion
I did a quick search, and here are all of the real Toyota OEM dealership parts to do the timing belt job for only $180
includes:
● AISIN Water Pump
● KOYO Idler Bearing
● KOYO Tensioner Bearing
● NTN Hydraulic Tensioner
● Mitsuboshi Timing Belt
here is the timing belt replacement done on an LS430 by a regular guy who has never done one before, he did a nice job, other than failing to use a torque wrench for reassembly
includes:
● AISIN Water Pump
● KOYO Idler Bearing
● KOYO Tensioner Bearing
● NTN Hydraulic Tensioner
● Mitsuboshi Timing Belt
here is the timing belt replacement done on an LS430 by a regular guy who has never done one before, he did a nice job, other than failing to use a torque wrench for reassembly
Last edited by LScowboyLS; 08-16-13 at 12:26 AM.
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bjchilds1 (12-21-21)
10-24-13, 07:16 PM
#15
Sorry to hear about that, Steve.
I just purchased an '05 LS430 with 97k on it whose belt has not yet been changed. I went ahead and got a 5yr/100k extended warranty. The warranty, however, will not cover the timing belt as a preventive measure. It will only cover if it breaks. So i've pretty much already settled in my mind that i'll simply let it fail on its own and pay the $100 deductable to cover everything damaged when the belt breaks, rather than cough up the near $1,500 out of pocket expense of a belt, pump and bearings only one week after having just laid down $2,500 on a comprehensive warranty.
I just purchased an '05 LS430 with 97k on it whose belt has not yet been changed. I went ahead and got a 5yr/100k extended warranty. The warranty, however, will not cover the timing belt as a preventive measure. It will only cover if it breaks. So i've pretty much already settled in my mind that i'll simply let it fail on its own and pay the $100 deductable to cover everything damaged when the belt breaks, rather than cough up the near $1,500 out of pocket expense of a belt, pump and bearings only one week after having just laid down $2,500 on a comprehensive warranty.