Highway wandering
11-23-11, 06:47 PM
#31
Racer
Thread Starter
Now I need to figure out what parts to buy, and find a place that knows what they're doing.
I hope it gets fixed. Thanks to everyone for your advise.
I hope it gets fixed. Thanks to everyone for your advise.
11-23-11, 10:00 PM
#32
Stu, I'm not familiar with your ride:
How many miles on it?
Has the suspension been modded?
You don't need to throw $ at this to fix. If there are wear issues with ball joints, tie rod ends, strut bar bushings UCA and LCA bushings, perhaps. True that a crowned road will cause the car to drift towards the steeper angle away but varying road crowns are not all equal. At highway speeds, the car should pretty much track true.
Some cars just dot not take well to some tires. I have the Conti Extreme DW and they follow the grooves easier than some past tires. It is a predictable line so it is tolerable. This varies with road surfaces and how-where the tire is falling into it. Some roads have some pretty wide grooves.
One can compensate but you will see this as tire wear after many miles. If this means you get 35K miles, you won't care but if you go through a set of tires in under 10K miles, you aren't going to be happy. Due to the the ride height and weight distribution, it can be a struggle for the techs. Getting a green light on the machine isn't a guarantee it is ok. That is why you;ve been chasing this.
A good primer on alignment:
http://autorepair.about.com/od/gloss..._alignment.htm
Pages 3 and 4 take note and compare your numbers. I strongly suspect that after you get the tech to dial toe closer to zero, you will find the wandering will decrease even with your caster-camber#'s.
How many miles on it?
Has the suspension been modded?
You don't need to throw $ at this to fix. If there are wear issues with ball joints, tie rod ends, strut bar bushings UCA and LCA bushings, perhaps. True that a crowned road will cause the car to drift towards the steeper angle away but varying road crowns are not all equal. At highway speeds, the car should pretty much track true.
Some cars just dot not take well to some tires. I have the Conti Extreme DW and they follow the grooves easier than some past tires. It is a predictable line so it is tolerable. This varies with road surfaces and how-where the tire is falling into it. Some roads have some pretty wide grooves.
One can compensate but you will see this as tire wear after many miles. If this means you get 35K miles, you won't care but if you go through a set of tires in under 10K miles, you aren't going to be happy. Due to the the ride height and weight distribution, it can be a struggle for the techs. Getting a green light on the machine isn't a guarantee it is ok. That is why you;ve been chasing this.
A good primer on alignment:
http://autorepair.about.com/od/gloss..._alignment.htm
Pages 3 and 4 take note and compare your numbers. I strongly suspect that after you get the tech to dial toe closer to zero, you will find the wandering will decrease even with your caster-camber#'s.
11-24-11, 02:36 AM
#33
Racer
Thread Starter
Stu, I'm not familiar with your ride:
How many miles on it?
Has the suspension been modded?
You don't need to throw $ at this to fix. If there are wear issues with ball joints, tie rod ends, strut bar bushings UCA and LCA bushings, perhaps. True that a crowned road will cause the car to drift towards the steeper angle away but varying road crowns are not all equal. At highway speeds, the car should pretty much track true.
Some cars just dot not take well to some tires. I have the Conti Extreme DW and they follow the grooves easier than some past tires. It is a predictable line so it is tolerable. This varies with road surfaces and how-where the tire is falling into it. Some roads have some pretty wide grooves.
One can compensate but you will see this as tire wear after many miles. If this means you get 35K miles, you won't care but if you go through a set of tires in under 10K miles, you aren't going to be happy. Due to the the ride height and weight distribution, it can be a struggle for the techs. Getting a green light on the machine isn't a guarantee it is ok. That is why you;ve been chasing this.
A good primer on alignment:
http://autorepair.about.com/od/gloss..._alignment.htm
Pages 3 and 4 take note and compare your numbers. I strongly suspect that after you get the tech to dial toe closer to zero, you will find the wandering will decrease even with your caster-camber#'s.
How many miles on it?
Has the suspension been modded?
You don't need to throw $ at this to fix. If there are wear issues with ball joints, tie rod ends, strut bar bushings UCA and LCA bushings, perhaps. True that a crowned road will cause the car to drift towards the steeper angle away but varying road crowns are not all equal. At highway speeds, the car should pretty much track true.
Some cars just dot not take well to some tires. I have the Conti Extreme DW and they follow the grooves easier than some past tires. It is a predictable line so it is tolerable. This varies with road surfaces and how-where the tire is falling into it. Some roads have some pretty wide grooves.
One can compensate but you will see this as tire wear after many miles. If this means you get 35K miles, you won't care but if you go through a set of tires in under 10K miles, you aren't going to be happy. Due to the the ride height and weight distribution, it can be a struggle for the techs. Getting a green light on the machine isn't a guarantee it is ok. That is why you;ve been chasing this.
A good primer on alignment:
http://autorepair.about.com/od/gloss..._alignment.htm
Pages 3 and 4 take note and compare your numbers. I strongly suspect that after you get the tech to dial toe closer to zero, you will find the wandering will decrease even with your caster-camber#'s.
If I am not mistaken, the toe was set on the last alignment (the one shown in the first post ) to help eliminate the wandering, and it helped quite a bit, but didn't solve it completely. The car tracks a lot better in the 17 inch snows which are going on shortly, but I am determined to get this fixed, and I'll replace the tires again if I have to, fix whatever needs it, because I really like the car.
11-27-11, 07:32 AM
#34
Stu, I'm not familiar with your ride:
How many miles on it?
Has the suspension been modded?
You don't need to throw $ at this to fix. If there are wear issues with ball joints, tie rod ends, strut bar bushings UCA and LCA bushings, perhaps. True that a crowned road will cause the car to drift towards the steeper angle away but varying road crowns are not all equal. At highway speeds, the car should pretty much track true.
Some cars just dot not take well to some tires. I have the Conti Extreme DW and they follow the grooves easier than some past tires. It is a predictable line so it is tolerable. This varies with road surfaces and how-where the tire is falling into it. Some roads have some pretty wide grooves.
One can compensate but you will see this as tire wear after many miles. If this means you get 35K miles, you won't care but if you go through a set of tires in under 10K miles, you aren't going to be happy. Due to the the ride height and weight distribution, it can be a struggle for the techs. Getting a green light on the machine isn't a guarantee it is ok. That is why you;ve been chasing this.
A good primer on alignment:
http://autorepair.about.com/od/gloss..._alignment.htm
Pages 3 and 4 take note and compare your numbers. I strongly suspect that after you get the tech to dial toe closer to zero, you will find the wandering will decrease even with your caster-camber#'s.
How many miles on it?
Has the suspension been modded?
You don't need to throw $ at this to fix. If there are wear issues with ball joints, tie rod ends, strut bar bushings UCA and LCA bushings, perhaps. True that a crowned road will cause the car to drift towards the steeper angle away but varying road crowns are not all equal. At highway speeds, the car should pretty much track true.
Some cars just dot not take well to some tires. I have the Conti Extreme DW and they follow the grooves easier than some past tires. It is a predictable line so it is tolerable. This varies with road surfaces and how-where the tire is falling into it. Some roads have some pretty wide grooves.
One can compensate but you will see this as tire wear after many miles. If this means you get 35K miles, you won't care but if you go through a set of tires in under 10K miles, you aren't going to be happy. Due to the the ride height and weight distribution, it can be a struggle for the techs. Getting a green light on the machine isn't a guarantee it is ok. That is why you;ve been chasing this.
A good primer on alignment:
http://autorepair.about.com/od/gloss..._alignment.htm
Pages 3 and 4 take note and compare your numbers. I strongly suspect that after you get the tech to dial toe closer to zero, you will find the wandering will decrease even with your caster-camber#'s.
11-29-11, 05:26 PM
#35
If it's the a tire problem, then the tire, it would be considered a separate issue than alignment, but needs to be verified with an person that is also experienced in this area as well. Either of these symptoms can cause the car to not perform correctly and needs to be properly addressed.
Slim chance tire is defective but it does happen. I know my friend's M3 had a defective tire such that it could cause the wheel to shake and pulsate at high speed. Especially since he's using on the track it would be dangerous. Brought it to a tire shop, they tried to find out the problem - couldn't find any (turned out they did not even test drive the car to replicate the problem - OK that shop was bad... Goes to another shop, they test drive and replicate the issue. They decided to look at every tire and mic them up then they found the problem... The inner part of the tire where the wheel meets the tire was not true - such that it was more of an oval than round. It had to be confirmed by micing them up for measurements since it is difficult to be seen visually to notice it was off spec. After that, they got a hold of the manufacturer and had the tire replaced and he was on his way.
Slim chance tire is defective but it does happen. I know my friend's M3 had a defective tire such that it could cause the wheel to shake and pulsate at high speed. Especially since he's using on the track it would be dangerous. Brought it to a tire shop, they tried to find out the problem - couldn't find any (turned out they did not even test drive the car to replicate the problem - OK that shop was bad... Goes to another shop, they test drive and replicate the issue. They decided to look at every tire and mic them up then they found the problem... The inner part of the tire where the wheel meets the tire was not true - such that it was more of an oval than round. It had to be confirmed by micing them up for measurements since it is difficult to be seen visually to notice it was off spec. After that, they got a hold of the manufacturer and had the tire replaced and he was on his way.
Last edited by Sango; 11-29-11 at 05:36 PM.
01-03-12, 07:09 PM
#36
Racer
Thread Starter
Happy New Year.
For everyone who has tried to help me with this problem, thank you, and please read on
Put on my snows ( cheap Firestone on inexpensive aftermarket wheels that came with the car ) and the car drives straighter, and a lot of the drifing / wandering went away. I was expecting that to happen ( hapenned before ) had the car a year already. I took the car in anyway for an alignment, its FOURTH and here is what he saw after he put it on his machine.
The guy told me the alligment was OK and he didn't adjust anything ? fine as is, but he told me need to buy adjustable arms so he can install them and THEN bring the rear camber it spec and then "see if that solves the wandering". What do you think, reasonable ?
He also said in his opinion felt the Continental ExtremeContact DWS ultra high performance z-rated tires I have for the summer are not well suited for the LS430 as they have too stiff a sidewall, and the reason the car drives better with the snows is they are 17s ( not 18s ) and have softer sidewalls. What do you think, reasonable ?
So, I'll wait for you comments and then proceed.
For everyone who has tried to help me with this problem, thank you, and please read on
Put on my snows ( cheap Firestone on inexpensive aftermarket wheels that came with the car ) and the car drives straighter, and a lot of the drifing / wandering went away. I was expecting that to happen ( hapenned before ) had the car a year already. I took the car in anyway for an alignment, its FOURTH and here is what he saw after he put it on his machine.
The guy told me the alligment was OK and he didn't adjust anything ? fine as is, but he told me need to buy adjustable arms so he can install them and THEN bring the rear camber it spec and then "see if that solves the wandering". What do you think, reasonable ?
He also said in his opinion felt the Continental ExtremeContact DWS ultra high performance z-rated tires I have for the summer are not well suited for the LS430 as they have too stiff a sidewall, and the reason the car drives better with the snows is they are 17s ( not 18s ) and have softer sidewalls. What do you think, reasonable ?
So, I'll wait for you comments and then proceed.
01-03-12, 10:19 PM
#37
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Again, your problem is NOT camber related. Toe angle is what matters and it appears to be in spec, I cant remember factory settings. I myself am running -3* and -4* of camber...car drives straight as an arrow 100+. There are many others running -10* or more with no issues of wandering.
Have an experienced tech drive the car and see how they react. The last time I heard this problem, lug nuts were loose...
Have an experienced tech drive the car and see how they react. The last time I heard this problem, lug nuts were loose...
01-04-12, 03:12 AM
#38
Recovering Lexus Addict
Since the car is driving OK with your winter tires / wheels, leave it alone for now. Before spring, hook up with some other LS430 owner(s) who also run dedicated summer and winter tires/wheels. When it's time to swap wheels for spring, get together and try running some other summer tire/wheel combinations to see if the wandering is present.
I don't remember if you said whether your 18" summer wheels previously ran OK with other tires on them. Also, are the 18s factory wheels and have they ever been checked for trueness?
I don't remember if you said whether your 18" summer wheels previously ran OK with other tires on them. Also, are the 18s factory wheels and have they ever been checked for trueness?
01-04-12, 05:47 AM
#39
Racer
Thread Starter
Again, your problem is NOT camber related. Toe angle is what matters and it appears to be in spec, I cant remember factory settings. I myself am running -3* and -4* of camber...car drives straight as an arrow 100+. There are many others running -10* or more with no issues of wandering.
Have an experienced tech drive the car and see how they react. The last time I heard this problem, lug nuts were loose...
Have an experienced tech drive the car and see how they react. The last time I heard this problem, lug nuts were loose...
The wheel nuts are tight. I know, I put them on myself !
Since the car is driving OK with your winter tires / wheels, leave it alone for now. Before spring, hook up with some other LS430 owner(s) who also run dedicated summer and winter tires/wheels. When it's time to swap wheels for spring, get together and try running some other summer tire/wheel combinations to see if the wandering is present.
I don't remember if you said whether your 18" summer wheels previously ran OK with other tires on them. Also, are the 18s factory wheels and have they ever been checked for trueness?
I don't remember if you said whether your 18" summer wheels previously ran OK with other tires on them. Also, are the 18s factory wheels and have they ever been checked for trueness?
The never were OK from day one, but yes they are straight and balanced easily !
01-04-12, 09:12 AM
#40
He also said in his opinion felt the Continental ExtremeContact DWS ultra high performance z-rated tires I have for the summer are not well suited for the LS430 as they have too stiff a sidewall, and the reason the car drives better with the snows is they are 17s ( not 18s ) and have softer sidewalls. What do you think, reasonable ?
Your guy have no clue, he is just making up whatever he can to make himself sounds knowledgeable. The typical clueless approach, if whatever you have doesn't work, try it the other way to see if it works. Good luck with that, hope you got tons of money to waste.
Last edited by BNR34; 01-04-12 at 10:55 AM.
01-04-12, 09:39 AM
#41
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i would say that if you have any bad tires or uneven wear, it can be a cause of the issue. also check the suspension to see if it is worn or laying uneven (one side is lower than the other or has more wear). have you had any damage to your rims (outside or inside)? i know these are rare but sometimes it can cause an issue to make your ride swerve a bit. i know that sometimes the balance on the rims/tires can be off as well. good luck on the fix.
01-04-12, 10:22 AM
#42
Racer
Thread Starter
My car got identical camber setting as your car, my car feels dead on at any speed. Many people told you that here already, you are just refusing to believe that huh?
BS again. If anything, softer tire makes it wander.
Your guy have no clue, he is just making up whatever he can to make himself sounds knowledgeable. The typical clueless approach, if whatever you have doesn't work, try it the other way to see if it works. Good luck with that, hope you got tons of money to waste.
BS again. If anything, softer tire makes it wander.
Your guy have no clue, he is just making up whatever he can to make himself sounds knowledgeable. The typical clueless approach, if whatever you have doesn't work, try it the other way to see if it works. Good luck with that, hope you got tons of money to waste.
yes, thats what everyone says about camber, and I don't think fixing it will fix the problem, but will cost $500 and he told me he can't get the part ! Again, not a lot of help there. So I believe what you say, but my car still wanders and I want to have it fixed. So .... now what ?
I also found what he said about the tires strange, and hard to believe, BUT the first set of tires were Hancook and they made things worse and not a little worse, it was a lot worse ! These tires lasted 2 - 3 weeks, and the Continentals were bought.. I'll likely replace the tires, again, (and probably wheels) in the summer.
I'm not sure I agree eirther about fixing the camber but its out of spec and I need to do something to fix the problem ?
I share this with everyone asking for help on what to do. i would say that if you have any bad tires or uneven wear, it can be a cause of the issue. also check the suspension to see if it is worn or laying uneven (one side is lower than the other or has more wear). have you had any damage to your rims (outside or inside)? i know these are rare but sometimes it can cause an issue to make your ride swerve a bit. i know that sometimes the balance on the rims/tires can be off as well. good luck on the fix.
Thanks again for your input.
Last edited by Stu; 01-05-12 at 12:42 PM. Reason: spelling
01-05-12, 11:46 AM
#43
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I have the 18" rims also. I didn't like the ride at all. For the winter, I got 17" rims and Blizzaks from Tire Rack. The car's ride is not much better. I am think of keeping the 17" rims on year round.
01-05-12, 12:40 PM
#44
Racer
Thread Starter
I agree the cars ride is not that much different on the 17 inch wheels, but car sure drives a lot straighter on the 17s. I am leaning towards forgetting about the camber as the rest of the alignment looks OK, and just put the 18s away \FOREVER and buy new 17s and new tires in the spring for use in the summer. Hopefully that will be the end of my "highway wandering"
I am trying to sell the 18s now, as they will never be on this car again.
If new 17 inch wheels and tires I get in the spring does not resolve my issue, I will probably sell the car with all 3 sets of wheels and tires.
I am trying to sell the 18s now, as they will never be on this car again.
If new 17 inch wheels and tires I get in the spring does not resolve my issue, I will probably sell the car with all 3 sets of wheels and tires.
