Boring (stability control)
08-29-10, 07:21 AM
#33
Lead Lap
Attached are the relevant portions of the 2003 and 2004 LS400 owners manuals.
02-02-11, 12:03 AM
#35
Pole Position
I don't see the point in putting in a switch that allows you to disable the traction control,but no the stability control.
Why would you want to spin the tyres,but not be allowed any lateral motion? I can see the point in wanting to drive the car hard and enjoy it on a country road,but not in doing static burnouts. That's how the system as designed in the later model 430's works.
I often turn the TRAC off,and find the interruption of the VSC with any serious corner entry speed to be quite annoying. Yeah,it's scrabbling a little. no,I'm not worried by it and am quite in control thanks,leave me my control of the throttle please....
The slightest bit of slip in a corner,and the system goes off,killing the engine and giving you horrific understeer. My old Celsior (UCF11) was far more driveable on the limit of traction. this car insists that you drive like a pensioner,regardless of your skill level or whether you have the traction control on or not. A pensioner who likes doing burnouts.
I don't understand it.
Justin...
Why would you want to spin the tyres,but not be allowed any lateral motion? I can see the point in wanting to drive the car hard and enjoy it on a country road,but not in doing static burnouts. That's how the system as designed in the later model 430's works.
I often turn the TRAC off,and find the interruption of the VSC with any serious corner entry speed to be quite annoying. Yeah,it's scrabbling a little. no,I'm not worried by it and am quite in control thanks,leave me my control of the throttle please....
The slightest bit of slip in a corner,and the system goes off,killing the engine and giving you horrific understeer. My old Celsior (UCF11) was far more driveable on the limit of traction. this car insists that you drive like a pensioner,regardless of your skill level or whether you have the traction control on or not. A pensioner who likes doing burnouts.
I don't understand it.
Justin...
02-02-11, 05:23 AM
#36
Wonder if Lexus Track tests the LS series to the same extent as the IS series since they are in totally different categories. Does the IS series also have VSC? They had to have tested the extreme limits of it to know how to integrate the active parameters of the VSC.
02-02-11, 07:25 AM
#37
Lead Lap
From my experience, tire breakaway during spirited driving becomes more sudden and unpredictable as tire profile decreases and tire width increases. Higher profile and narrower tires give a great deal of warning (squealing and slipping) before complete breakaway occurs.
The LS430, or any LS for that matter, is certainly not what most people would call a "driver's car". Unlike maybe a BMW which may give adequate feedback even with fairly wide low profile tires, driving an LS430 is more like driving by remote control.
Add to the mix that most LS430's were purchased when new by, to put it kindly, "mature drivers", who are less likely to drive or know how to drive them to their corning limits and the situation becomes even more dicey.
The introduction of 245/45-18 tires as an LS430 option in 2004 added to the problem giving the LS430 even higher corning limits and even less notice that tire breakaway was imminent. "Non-defeatable" VSC was introduced to protect the average LS430 driver from literally "going over the edge".
LS430's like most fairly expensive cars usually fall into the hands of younger drivers as they age and become cheaper to buy as used cars. Younger drivers are more likely to want to explore the limits of a car's adhesion. Toyota, however, did not design the LS430 for them but mainly for the generally older, more sedate driver.
Frankly, the only Lexus LS that I think was even close to being a "driver's car" was the 90-92 LS like I purchased about 21 years ago. It felt light and "toss-able" and gave far more feedback from its skinny 205/65-15 tires than any LS since. The LS430 and now the LS460/600 have continued the move away from the original LS concept.
Last edited by Kansas; 02-02-11 at 08:40 AM.
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mk4umha (04-27-20)
02-02-11, 07:37 AM
#38
I'll post my theory (again) which may be complete B.S. but I have time since getting a measly 12"-16" of snow in the 24 hours seems to have mostly shut work down here in the Kansas City metro.
From my experience, tire breakaway during spirited driving becomes more sudden and unpredictable as tire profile decreases and tire width increases. Higher profile and narrower tires give a great deal of warning (squealing and slipping) before complete breakaway occurs.
The LS430, or any LS for that matter, is certainly not what most people would call a "driver's car". Unlike maybe a BMW which may give adequate feedback even with fairly wide low profile tires, driving an LS430 is more like driving by remote control.
Add to the mix that most LS430's were purchased when new by, to put it kindly, "mature drivers", who are less likely to drive or know how to drive them to their corning limits and the situation becomes even more dicey.
The introduction of 245/45-18 tires as an LS430 option in 2004 added to the problem giving the LS430 even higher corning limits and even less notice that tire breakaway was imminent. "Non-defeatable" VSC was introduced to protect the average LS430 driver from literally "going over the edge".
LS430's like most fairly expensive cars usually fall into the hands of younger drivers as they age and become cheaper to buy as used cars. Younger drivers are more likely to want to explore the limits of a car's adhesion. Toyota, however, did not design the LS430 for them but mainly for the generally older, more sedate driver.
Frankly, the only Lexus LS that I think was even close to being a "driver's car" was the 90-92 LS like I purchased about 21 years ago. It felt light and "toss-able" and gave far more feedback from its skinny 205/60-15 tires than any LS since. The LS430 and now the LS460/600 have continued the move away from the original LS concept.
From my experience, tire breakaway during spirited driving becomes more sudden and unpredictable as tire profile decreases and tire width increases. Higher profile and narrower tires give a great deal of warning (squealing and slipping) before complete breakaway occurs.
The LS430, or any LS for that matter, is certainly not what most people would call a "driver's car". Unlike maybe a BMW which may give adequate feedback even with fairly wide low profile tires, driving an LS430 is more like driving by remote control.
Add to the mix that most LS430's were purchased when new by, to put it kindly, "mature drivers", who are less likely to drive or know how to drive them to their corning limits and the situation becomes even more dicey.
The introduction of 245/45-18 tires as an LS430 option in 2004 added to the problem giving the LS430 even higher corning limits and even less notice that tire breakaway was imminent. "Non-defeatable" VSC was introduced to protect the average LS430 driver from literally "going over the edge".
LS430's like most fairly expensive cars usually fall into the hands of younger drivers as they age and become cheaper to buy as used cars. Younger drivers are more likely to want to explore the limits of a car's adhesion. Toyota, however, did not design the LS430 for them but mainly for the generally older, more sedate driver.
Frankly, the only Lexus LS that I think was even close to being a "driver's car" was the 90-92 LS like I purchased about 21 years ago. It felt light and "toss-able" and gave far more feedback from its skinny 205/60-15 tires than any LS since. The LS430 and now the LS460/600 have continued the move away from the original LS concept.
12-10-13, 08:16 PM
#39
Is it FULLY UN-DEFEATABLE?!
Or is there a fuse that might cut it off.
I certainly am a good driver and would like to take my car drifting some time, with all this torque you just gotta do it. I feel the need to do so.
I find the 'beep-beep' ( putting you on a straight line again ) very annoying. All of us have different opinions on this, especially because the LS430 wasn't built in a sporty or aimed a young generation.
I'm SURE there is a way to get rid of this system, after all it should be inside the fuse box somewhere.
Help needed here.
Or is there a fuse that might cut it off.
I certainly am a good driver and would like to take my car drifting some time, with all this torque you just gotta do it. I feel the need to do so.
I find the 'beep-beep' ( putting you on a straight line again ) very annoying. All of us have different opinions on this, especially because the LS430 wasn't built in a sporty or aimed a young generation.
I'm SURE there is a way to get rid of this system, after all it should be inside the fuse box somewhere.
Help needed here.
12-10-13, 08:38 PM
#41
Is it FULLY UN-DEFEATABLE?!
Or is there a fuse that might cut it off.
I certainly am a good driver and would like to take my car drifting some time, with all this torque you just gotta do it. I feel the need to do so.
I find the 'beep-beep' ( putting you on a straight line again ) very annoying. All of us have different opinions on this, especially because the LS430 wasn't built in a sporty or aimed a young generation.
I'm SURE there is a way to get rid of this system, after all it should be inside the fuse box somewhere.
Help needed here.
Or is there a fuse that might cut it off.
I certainly am a good driver and would like to take my car drifting some time, with all this torque you just gotta do it. I feel the need to do so.
I find the 'beep-beep' ( putting you on a straight line again ) very annoying. All of us have different opinions on this, especially because the LS430 wasn't built in a sporty or aimed a young generation.
I'm SURE there is a way to get rid of this system, after all it should be inside the fuse box somewhere.
Help needed here.
12-10-13, 09:10 PM
#43
Pole Position
I think you're forgetting the yaw sensors under the centre console,the height measuring sensors on the lower control arms,and the steering angle sensor...
Stability control takes in a LOT more inputs than just ABS on an LS430. You'd be right if you were referring to an '89 LS400,but not the later cars,they're far more complex.
Justin...
12-10-13, 09:12 PM
#44
Only one way to find out. If you kill the way the computer brakes then you should be good. Does not matter what other sensors are going for it. Worth a try.
Throttle control is something totally different.
Throttle control is something totally different.
Last edited by Lavrishevo; 12-10-13 at 09:16 PM.
