IStoSC

This one just popped up at our local Lexus dealership. My dad is having troubles with our X5 and since we just bought an LS430 which we love I may have my dad check this out as well...

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail...5&aff=national

I can see controls in the back seat armrest and it appears to be alcantara headliner, but I don't see the radar cruise control assembly (plastic behind the "L" on the grille) so I'm inclined to think its a CL? When did they start the radar cc anyway?

Also given its semi-low miles and CPO what do you think would be a fair asking price (as price is not listed). THANKS IN ADVANCE.

ayonnebay

It is a UL. (CL only has seat heater controls in rear armrest, not all the other goodies..)

Radar unit behind "L" logo in grille is also part of Pre-Collision Avoidance system, which was introduced in "late 2004" models. Early 2004 models had the radar cruise control unit in the lower grill area, near the passenger side fog light, and did not have Pre-collision system. This car may be an early 2004.

Walt

IStoSC

Walt, thanks is there any other things I should be wary about in the early 2004 vs late?

caddyowner

IIRC, the two TSBs to be sure it has are the transmission and fuel filler.

You can also tell it is a UL by the pic of the smaller trunk. The bump in the floor between the wheel wells is not visible because of the bulkhead that hides all the back seat goodies.

ayonnebay

I have 78k miles on my early 04 CL and couldn't be happier - by far the best car I've ever owned. I can only suggest checking to make sure the early recalls were taken care of : one involved transmission replacement for certain build dates/VIN #s and the other was for the fuel pump. These were recalled early and the dealer should be able to confirm by printing out work orders for your VIN. The other things (just annoyance items) are: the fuel filler neck replacement done only if owners complained about filling problems (station nozzle clicking off early, before filled) , and the creaking sound made by the steering wheel auto-positioning when key is turned on/off (fixed by installation of a newly-designed cable kit by dealer upon complaint) . I can't think of any other concerns. Mine has been great -<knock on wood>.

walt

IStoSC

^thanks to everyone for all the info just went on "chat" through cars.com and they want 29,999 for it (my ***...I was hoping low 20s)...we just picked up a 2006 ML for nearly 4 k less...

I'll wait a few weeks to see whats up with the car...but I really am interested in finding a UL for a decent price...

IStoSC

For the ignorant what does TSB stand for?

ayonnebay

Technical Service Bulletin

They are not, in themselves "recalls", but could be stand alone fixes, troubleshooting / adjustment guides, or a part of an official recall.

LS430inDE.

Would we be negligent in our duties, if we failed to advise an interested buyer of a UL, in the potential issues associated with the air suspension?

ayonnebay

Yes, we would.

Some ULers might disagree, but I personally wouldn't seek out a UL for just that reason. I believe the potential for problems with UL suspension cancels out the benefits of UL over CL (my opinion only, of course).

But, to be fair, I do not know the frequency of UL suspension issues. ULers might be able to add to this .....

Walt

AlexusAnja

Save the $$$ and get a CL for your parents. I don't they're going to ride low and be on 20's any time soon, so why bother with the rear control and extra things to eventually fail.

jayclapp

Get the UL and enjoy all the luxury and wonderful things it will offer. Don't worry about non-reliability, you're buying the best.

I have an early 2004 UL and love it. No regrets and I envy nobody on the road.

Just my opinion.

V8_Fan

I wouldn't worry about the air suspension. If it fails, you can always install the traditional coil spring/shock suspension found on the base LS430 for about $1600 in parts + labor. It's been done. As far as the other rear seat goodies, the power rear seats should have comparable longevity (if not longer) to power front seats, and the rear AC is merely a second blower that uses the same compressor as the front AC. It's no different on any full-sized SUV like the Toyota landcruiser, LX470/570, and I've yet to hear any of those have issues w/ the rear controls (they have rear climate and audio controls). Just don't spill any liquids on them.

IStoSC

Thanks for the advice as always you guys are amazing...my dad just picked up a CPO LS460 and we're in love...difficult to choose between the soft ride of the 430 and more euro feel of the 460...

jayclapp

I think the UL rear A/C is much more than just a second blower. Here's my take on the UL rear A/C system:

First, it must be remembered that the Ultra Luxury was designed primarily to pamper the rear seat passengers. The rear window shade raises automatically to provide shade (while it can be lowered and raised by the driver, it cannot be disengaged). Side window shades provide privacy and shade from the sun. Reclining seats with memory and return when the rear door is opened, massage, an adjacent refrigerator, controls for the Levinson sound system, seat temperature controls, and swivel reading lights are included. Then there is the separate air conditioner with UV filter and climate controls for the rear passengers.

The rear seating compartment is subjected to various heat input. When the shades are down, the heat input is maximized. When the shades are up, the heat input is minimized. This is a greater variation than what the driver is subjected to as he has no shades available.

Consequently there are two nearly separate air conditions systems in the UL. There is one compressor in the engine bay with valves for freon lines that run to and from the rear passenger A/C. The compressor is controlled solely by the driver. While the rear passengers are pampered, the driver is the captain of the ship. While there are three temperature controls there are only two thermostats. The two thermostats for the driver and passenger provide separate temperature control. The rear passenger control is linked to the drivers thermostat. A change in one always changes the other, whether instigated by the driver of the rear passengers.

The front A/C system has 5 blower speeds while the rear system has two. The front climate control allows the driver to turn the rear A/C on and off and choose between manual or auto operation. When A/C is selected it opens the valves that provide freon to the rear system. The compressor must be running for A/C for the rear. The rear passengers cannot turn on the compressor. That can only be done by the driver.

But the rear climate can be changed by the passengers. Choosing manual they are provided with two blower speeds controlling the airflow from the overhead vents. They can also turn the A/C off while the driver maintains his A/C. However, the air provided to the rear by the vents in the back of the driver armrest is part of the drivers system. The rear passengers have no control on temperature of this air. They can regulate the amount of airflow by partially or completely closing these vents.

Strangely, the rear passengers have inadvertent control of the front passengers temperature control when the drive and front passenger are in dual mode. When the rear passenger control is changed, the driver temperature control is also changed as they are always linked. In this case the front passenger control will go up or down by the amount as the rear passenger change.

The rear A/C has its own filter with UV for deodorizing and purifying the air. There are also two very small inlet filter on each side of the car. They probably don't do much being about 1" x 2", but they filter the air for the main rear A/C. There are two small filters beneath the rear seats that filter the air for seat cooling.

There are a number of temperature sensors throughout the car, and I have no idea where or how many. Also, the center front vents have moving vanes that are programmed as a function of the dual zone being selected, whether there is a passenger in the right seat, and the ambient temperature. Needless to say this is a marvelous, complicated system that allows every passenger to seek and set his own environment. Now if we could only get all the occupants to learn how to use this wonderful system. Or they could just sit there and enjoy the comfort.