general98

My 2001 LS430 creaks a lot when it is dry outside. The creaking comes from the doors / windows mostly. If the windows are rolled all the way up and it is dry, I get creaking on even small bumps in the road. If I roll down the window slightly, it will generally stop the creaking (but it will allow wind noise to come in). HOWEVER, when it rains outside, the creaking is gone. This leads me to believe it has something to do with the weatherstrip / seals on the car. I recently took it to the dealer and had the weatherstrip lubricated and it doesn't seem to do much.

Any suggestions? I bought the car used and don't think the seals are Lexus parts. If I replace them, will it make any difference and at what cost? Thanks.

pacinitaly

same problem here

lexier

I had the same problem on my '03. Try cleaning the entire door jam and the rubber seal on the door with armor all. Also put the window down and treat the rubber seal with armor all. I know some do not like armor all, but it
works well for me. Give it a try, and I think you will be happy with the results. Good luck

jayclapp

I've used STP Son of A Gun Protectrant for years on rubber. Any of the silicon based rubber products should help. Suggest you apply liberally, let soak in for 30 minutes and buff lightly. If the rubber is really dry it may take several applications. If the rubber is brittle you won't be able to rescue it. I've been using the Lexus rubber treatment on my LS430 and like it.

DNC

Applying a rubber protecting product will shop the problem. I ONLY use 303 as it does not contain silicone as does Armor All and the others. It gives the rubber seals a new look, not a tacky shinny appearence.
I applied 303 after each weekly wash. After about a month the rubber looked new again. I have not had to reapply any 303 in about two months. I would also make sure you clean the door jams good before treating the seals.

general98

When you say clean the door jams, do you mean actually cleaning the metal frame of the car? Do you clean this with a silicone product as well? Where do you purchase 303? Thanks.

DNC

Yes, I do clean the door jams. I do it with a damp towel as the door jams of my car aren't very dirty. NEVER use any kind of silicone product on your car's rubber, vinyl, or plastic surfaces. It will coat the surfaces and not allow them to breath which in time will lead to cracking.
I get my 303 off Ebay or at boating stores.

hrp

Another vote for 303. Also, be sure to clean the inside of the door frame, then use a good sealant and even a qd on it. You want it as "smooth as a baby's butt". Any roughness where the frame meets the seal can cause wind noise and/or creaking. Ditto 303 for the window frames and weather stripping. That wide area at the top of the windows is notorius for getting rough and causing air leaks and creaking. And don't forget to really clean the windows, the top and inside especially (Stoner's Invisible Glass is a great product, but use the pressurized can, not the pump spray). I get my 303 at a local NAPA.

I6turbo

iTrader: (1)

Actually, silicone fluids are intert to rubber. They don't really help nor hurt them. It's the selection of surfactant(s) used in some products to couple the silicone fluids in water that cause the damage, not the silicone fluids themselves (the original ArmorAll formula is a widely known offender due to one of the surfactants). If you select a silicone emulsion that has a well-chosen surfactant package (most do) it won't damage the rubber (but won't particularly help/preserve it either). To avoid causing cracking, don't use any product with petroleum solvent carriers (clear tire shine, for example) and use something that helps guard against attack by ground level ozone (though it's nearly impossible to know what's a hollow "ozone protection" marketing claim, and what actually works).

Re: the 303 product, the manufacturer doesn't give any info,
http://www.rhtubs.com/MSDS/303_PROTECTANT.pdf
so people have to make their own guesses as to whether or not it has any silicone components. I'd be surprised to find that it does not, but perhaps it doesn't. Silicone materials are almost always used in shine enhancers of this sort....

DNC

Thanks for that information. I was told by a company spokesperson years ago that 303 has no silicone. I double checked my first source who was conducting a leather workshop at a national Rolls-Royce meet back in 1997. The guy did very expensive restorations and hated any silicone products.

I6turbo

iTrader: (1)

It's certainly possible that it doesn't have any silicone components (fluids/oils/polymers/whatever they elect to call them). I've seen the mfg. claims of "no silicone oils" and seen other *unsubstantiated* claims that it actually does contain silicone components (claimed as "fluids" in this case, but it's really just semantics mostly). Silicone polymers can have drastically different properties than the conventional silicone fluids we're all familiar with via ArmorAll and the like -- can even be paintable. The guys who REALLY hate conventional silicone fluids are the paint and body shops. LOL I'll bet a good paint man could tell us if 303 has any conventional silicone components.

DNC

Let's also remember I didn't get my information yesterday; things could have changed with 303, but I certainly hope not. I will go on using the product unless we uncover different information.
What you describe above is what I have heard other say about Lexol; meaning it really does contain silicone.

I6turbo

iTrader: (1)

Back in the day I worked for a company that supplied Lexol with the Vinlylex silicone emulsion concentrate and several of the other appearance product companies with silicone emulsions. A lot of companies just start with a ready-made emulsion (such as one of these( http://www.dowcorning.com/applicatio...0&DCCT=PRODUCT ). Most emulsions used for automotive appearance are similar in that they start with a 40-60% solids concentrate that contains 2 or 3 different viscosity silicone fluids (or oils, as some call the thicker ones) and some well-chosen surfactants to couple them into the water base. Those components are homogenized to make a stable emulsion that can be diluted with water without phase separating over time when the product sits on the shelf. The packager will take the concentrate and dilute it with water (typically end up with a 15%-30% solids product on the shelf), and perhaps add an ingredient or two (perhaps a fragrance and/or color) to try to give them a unique signature for that particular product. Building the emulsion is tricky because silicone fluids are like oil in that they do not naturally mix with water. You can detect a poorly-built product (one aspect of it anyway) when you see it separating into layers in the bottle. Meguiars had some product doing this in their red-tinted bottle a few years ago.

IMO, there's nothing wrong with silicones per se, so long as the product gives the result you're after. For example, I'd never put most conventional silicone products on a leather seat because I don't like the generally glossy look (though they can be formulated to give a matte finish if desired -- matte finish silicone base "cockpit spray" products are common in Europe), and they tend to be slick. For leather, people tend to use glycerine and other lotion-type components, but I would not be the least bit surprised to find a little bit of silicone in any given leather conditioner. The funny thing is, they are generally trying to mimic the performance of sperm whale oil, which is about the best leather conditioner ever, but of course no longer used for obvious reasons.

DNC

With the knowledge you have on this subject, what do you think the effects of silicone would be on vinyl interior components that give off gases? I am specifically thinking of the Mercedes interiors of the 1980's and 1990's that are very bad about giving off such gases. During the Summer season the windows in these cars had to be cleaned at least twice a month.

I6turbo

iTrader: (1)

First, I'd say that silicone fluids would make the problem you describe even worse. I hadn't particularly heard about MB's interior components giving off anything that would condense on the windows (it certainly may be the case -- I'm just saying that I didn't know they were particularly bad). I'm not sure what silicone fluids would do to those vinyl components themselves as far as damage or protection, but it's been my understanding that silicone fluids are inert on plastics, elastomers, rubber, etc. -- doesn't damage or benefit at a molecular level. I am confident (based upon estensive testing) that this is the case on rubber of the sort used to build tires, and it's widely considered to be true of other materials as well. Most of the damage or protection realized from silicone appearance products will come from the other chemistries in the product -- surfactants, carrier fluids, antiozonants, UV inhibitors, etc., not really from the silicone. Silicones can provide water resistance, which can be a benefit in some cases.

With regard to soils accumulating on glass inside a vehicle, a lot of dash dressings/interior treatments/leather conditioners, etc. will evaporate a little bit under direct sunlight, and then condense on the windows resulting in a noticeable film that is hard to remove with mild cleaners such as window cleaner. The condensation is especially likely on the windshield because it's right above the dash, which is often heated to high temperatures by the sun, and then the silicone vapors waft up and condense on the relatively cool windshield. Some silicone based treatments are especially known for this -- ArmorAll, for example. I wonder if the MB's got their reputation back in the day when ArmorAll was about the only game in town for dash dressing? Or perhaps the old MB dash and plastics have residual oils -- even silicone fluids which are commonly used as mold release agents -- which are evaporating and condensing.