LS430 vs Avalon - Comprehensive Review
05-30-09, 09:51 PM
#1
LS430 vs Avalon - Comprehensive Review
Hi guys. I have been scanning through this site as a visitor for a while, as the LS has always been my dream car ever since I was a teenager. I was raised to admire quiet, comfortable, and reliable cars, although the lower end of the Toyota spectrum was all my family could possibly afford as a child. Reviews claiming the LS was the quietest and most reliable mass-produced car in the world always stuck with me, and I made it my goal to own one at some point in my life.
While most kids my age would opt for more sporty choices, my first ride shortly after my first job out of college (4 years ago) was a brand new 2006 Toyota Avalon Limited. I couldn't afford a new LS, and the used 430s I sought were out of my price range as well.
A couple weeks ago, after racking up 65K mi. on the Avalon and having cared for it meticulously (still looked and smelled new), I sold it after noticing I could now buy my favorite car of all time for only a few grand more. Memorial day weekend I drove down to Charleston to pick up my 1-owner 2004 ML 43K mi $22k garage kept gem.
A note to everyone still looking for their gem: Avoid second-owner and auctioned LSs. I test drove a few of them and every single one showed signs of tampering, either odometer or body/mechanical. If a car is in excellent shape, then why would a fleet or previous owner dump it? And if the SECOND owner is dumping it, then you REALLY need to stay away. Rolling back the odometer on Japanese cars (INCLUDING THE LS) costs less than $300, so word to the wise is - BE WEARY!
A week later I have already put 1000k on the car and can now fully compare the Avalon and the LS. I am a mechanical engineer so the review below might be more technical than some of you would like:
Straight-line comfort:
Both are comparable, but the LS has the edge. It is much more isolated from the road and feels much more solid than the Avalon. Large bumps and potholes could be heard in the Avalon but not in the LS.
Cornering:
Believe it or not, the Avalon has the edge hear. It FEELs much more spirited. Although the LS is not lame, it feels much heavier and I have to slow down more in the corners to avoid being strapped to the side of my seat by the seat-belt.
Engine:
Of course, power always wins! And the V8 on the LS is silky-smooth and quiet! Since I can't hear the motor on the LS, I usually accelerate more until I can, but then I'm moving too quickly. I have had to readjust the way I drive because I am big on driving by "ear" if you know what I mean. You can't do that on a car that doesn't allow engine noise into the cabin.
Performance:
The engine and transmission on the LS are perfectly matched. God bless the engineers at Toyota that wrote the control logic. It is ALWAYS at the perfect gear and has amazing acceleration for such a heavy car. Add to that stellar fuel economy for a car of this size/weight and output, and you have a winning formula. The Avalon is slower, but is by no means a turtle. It also has the best fuel economy in its class. Note however that with a car loaded with passengers the LS doesn't even notice the weight. Not so much the case in the Avalon, but this is true for most V6s.
Braking:
Comparable on both, but the LS seems to activate the brake boost feature more often than the Avalon. This is very subtle and most people might not notice it, but I also drive other cars on a regular basis and it is definitely a must-have for me. Makes an amazing difference in panic stops. Note that I do not drive "on the edge" which is where the differences between the Avalon and LS brakes might stand out more.
Transmission:
The 5 speed on the Avalon runs well, but suffers from lag between shifts. I did rent an 08' model once and this has been somewhat resolved, but shifting is still not nearly as quick and smooth as in the 6-speed on the LS, which is always on the right gear.
Interior Quality & Comfort:
I was a little upset that the LS was not much more amazing than my Avalon inside. Most of the gizmos and gadgets are available on the Limited trim of the Avalon. However, Lexus was very thoughtful to consider the little things that would make a difference. At night the entire car seems to glow inside; Almost every nook and cranny is lighted. The leather is softer on the LS, and the dashboard is not made from "el-cheapo" plastic as is done on the Avalon. Everything is much more robust on the LS, except the cheezy cupholders. I am all for uniformity, especially when it comes to LCD displays in cars. I do not like that the LCD display on the lower portion of the dash is not similar to the one used on top of the NAV system. Reminds me of the Mazda Millenia setup which I hated. The instrument panel on the Avalon was much nicer. The gauges are surrounded by chrome-trim and at night the lighting effect is nicer than that on the LS. The glowing ice-cube effect of the dashboard buttons on the Avalon also looks really nice at night.
Interior Noise:
The Avalon is quieter than your average car. Everybody commented about how quiet it was. The LS is simply amazing. 'Nuff said.
Exterior Quality/Looks:
Quality is comparable in both cars, but the body panel gaps in the LS are narrower and the hood, trunk, and doors all close with a SOLID "thump" on the LS. However, the LS looks like a million bucks. Everybody that sees it confuses it with a Mercedes (which I don't appreciate). It looks stunning from any angle. The avalon is nice, especially in Blizzard pearl, but the overall looks of the car will never match up to the LS.
Features common to LS and Avalon:
Smart Key:
The Avalon key is 30% smaller and looks much nicer. What happened Lexus???
Rear sunshade:
Works similarly in both vehicles, but the Avalon sunshade does not come back up when you shift out of Reverse.
HID headlights:
All Toyota (and Lexus) cars with HID seem to suffer from the same problem - the headlights are aimed too low to the ground from the factory. I will have to realign my LS headlights, but they are better than the Avalon's; almost a 180 degree field of vision. I did notice that the active cornering headlamps are a joke on the Lexus. The beam pattern is so good that they are not necessary. I drove an ML63 last year with the same feature and they were a must-have for the FOV the HIDs had.
Heated/Cooled seats:
Works a wee bit better on the LS, but barely noticeable.
Navigation System:
Touch-screen on the LS wins hands-down. The joystick on the Avalon almost drove me to desperation a few times, but it was bearable. However, the long Instrument panel on the Avalon conceals the navigation screen very nicely. It is always protected from the sun, where in the LS the sun glare can be a problem.
Mark Levinson Audio: I am by no means an audiophile, but to me the sound on the LS is slightly better. I do remember that on Edmunds.com the ML system on the Avalon was rated #2 of all production cars, whereas the LS has always been #1.
Features on Avalon-only:
Manual reclining rear seats: Although the electric version of these is found on the UL, they are awesome on the Avalon for much less than a UL LS.
LED turn signal arrows on rear-view mirrors: I don't understand why Lexus left this out of the LS. They could do auto-folding mirrors but no turn signal lights? They work very well on the Avalon and believe it or not, do make a difference when changing lanes.
Features on LS-only:
Active cornering headlights: Useless but cool to show off
Bluetooth phone: Extremely useful and very well integrated. Excellent sound quality. Goodbye bluetooth headset!
Automatic swinging air registers: I love how it detects passengers and changes the aim and oscillation pattern depending on the fan speed, heat in the car, and weight on passenger seat.
Automatic Folding rear-view mirrors: very nice feature for us urbanites. I park on the street and this is a huge plus for me. Those that have a nice spot at work and driveway at home might care less.
Avalon favorites:
Small smart-key fob
reclining rear seats
NAV screen with no sun glare
HUGE rear legroom
**Front wheel drive - a BIG plus for snowy climates only, much better than RWD.
LS favorites:
-Rock-solid body (extremely minimal body flex)
-Super-quiet at any speed - Seems to get quieter above 80mph; no longer "hear" wet roads when its raining
-Exterior looks
-Bluetooth phone
Conclusion:
Would I pay $60K (out-the-door price for the original owner of my LS) for a NEW LS?
Absolutely not. Considering my finances and budget, the added features/performance are not worth the extra $20K compared to the Avalon.
Would I pay $22K for a used LS with 43K mi again?
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES!! It is worth every penny. 
Although I "downgraded" to a car that is 2 years older than my Avalon, I now drive a car that is safer, more reliable, better looking, and better performing.
While most kids my age would opt for more sporty choices, my first ride shortly after my first job out of college (4 years ago) was a brand new 2006 Toyota Avalon Limited. I couldn't afford a new LS, and the used 430s I sought were out of my price range as well.
A couple weeks ago, after racking up 65K mi. on the Avalon and having cared for it meticulously (still looked and smelled new), I sold it after noticing I could now buy my favorite car of all time for only a few grand more. Memorial day weekend I drove down to Charleston to pick up my 1-owner 2004 ML 43K mi $22k garage kept gem.
A note to everyone still looking for their gem: Avoid second-owner and auctioned LSs. I test drove a few of them and every single one showed signs of tampering, either odometer or body/mechanical. If a car is in excellent shape, then why would a fleet or previous owner dump it? And if the SECOND owner is dumping it, then you REALLY need to stay away. Rolling back the odometer on Japanese cars (INCLUDING THE LS) costs less than $300, so word to the wise is - BE WEARY!
A week later I have already put 1000k on the car and can now fully compare the Avalon and the LS. I am a mechanical engineer so the review below might be more technical than some of you would like:
Straight-line comfort:
Both are comparable, but the LS has the edge. It is much more isolated from the road and feels much more solid than the Avalon. Large bumps and potholes could be heard in the Avalon but not in the LS.
Cornering:
Believe it or not, the Avalon has the edge hear. It FEELs much more spirited. Although the LS is not lame, it feels much heavier and I have to slow down more in the corners to avoid being strapped to the side of my seat by the seat-belt.
Engine:
Of course, power always wins! And the V8 on the LS is silky-smooth and quiet! Since I can't hear the motor on the LS, I usually accelerate more until I can, but then I'm moving too quickly. I have had to readjust the way I drive because I am big on driving by "ear" if you know what I mean. You can't do that on a car that doesn't allow engine noise into the cabin.
Performance:
The engine and transmission on the LS are perfectly matched. God bless the engineers at Toyota that wrote the control logic. It is ALWAYS at the perfect gear and has amazing acceleration for such a heavy car. Add to that stellar fuel economy for a car of this size/weight and output, and you have a winning formula. The Avalon is slower, but is by no means a turtle. It also has the best fuel economy in its class. Note however that with a car loaded with passengers the LS doesn't even notice the weight. Not so much the case in the Avalon, but this is true for most V6s.
Braking:
Comparable on both, but the LS seems to activate the brake boost feature more often than the Avalon. This is very subtle and most people might not notice it, but I also drive other cars on a regular basis and it is definitely a must-have for me. Makes an amazing difference in panic stops. Note that I do not drive "on the edge" which is where the differences between the Avalon and LS brakes might stand out more.
Transmission:
The 5 speed on the Avalon runs well, but suffers from lag between shifts. I did rent an 08' model once and this has been somewhat resolved, but shifting is still not nearly as quick and smooth as in the 6-speed on the LS, which is always on the right gear.
Interior Quality & Comfort:
I was a little upset that the LS was not much more amazing than my Avalon inside. Most of the gizmos and gadgets are available on the Limited trim of the Avalon. However, Lexus was very thoughtful to consider the little things that would make a difference. At night the entire car seems to glow inside; Almost every nook and cranny is lighted. The leather is softer on the LS, and the dashboard is not made from "el-cheapo" plastic as is done on the Avalon. Everything is much more robust on the LS, except the cheezy cupholders. I am all for uniformity, especially when it comes to LCD displays in cars. I do not like that the LCD display on the lower portion of the dash is not similar to the one used on top of the NAV system. Reminds me of the Mazda Millenia setup which I hated. The instrument panel on the Avalon was much nicer. The gauges are surrounded by chrome-trim and at night the lighting effect is nicer than that on the LS. The glowing ice-cube effect of the dashboard buttons on the Avalon also looks really nice at night.
Interior Noise:
The Avalon is quieter than your average car. Everybody commented about how quiet it was. The LS is simply amazing. 'Nuff said.
Exterior Quality/Looks:
Quality is comparable in both cars, but the body panel gaps in the LS are narrower and the hood, trunk, and doors all close with a SOLID "thump" on the LS. However, the LS looks like a million bucks. Everybody that sees it confuses it with a Mercedes (which I don't appreciate). It looks stunning from any angle. The avalon is nice, especially in Blizzard pearl, but the overall looks of the car will never match up to the LS.
Features common to LS and Avalon:
Smart Key:
The Avalon key is 30% smaller and looks much nicer. What happened Lexus???
Rear sunshade:
Works similarly in both vehicles, but the Avalon sunshade does not come back up when you shift out of Reverse.
HID headlights:
All Toyota (and Lexus) cars with HID seem to suffer from the same problem - the headlights are aimed too low to the ground from the factory. I will have to realign my LS headlights, but they are better than the Avalon's; almost a 180 degree field of vision. I did notice that the active cornering headlamps are a joke on the Lexus. The beam pattern is so good that they are not necessary. I drove an ML63 last year with the same feature and they were a must-have for the FOV the HIDs had.
Heated/Cooled seats:
Works a wee bit better on the LS, but barely noticeable.
Navigation System:
Touch-screen on the LS wins hands-down. The joystick on the Avalon almost drove me to desperation a few times, but it was bearable. However, the long Instrument panel on the Avalon conceals the navigation screen very nicely. It is always protected from the sun, where in the LS the sun glare can be a problem.
Mark Levinson Audio: I am by no means an audiophile, but to me the sound on the LS is slightly better. I do remember that on Edmunds.com the ML system on the Avalon was rated #2 of all production cars, whereas the LS has always been #1.
Features on Avalon-only:
Manual reclining rear seats: Although the electric version of these is found on the UL, they are awesome on the Avalon for much less than a UL LS.
LED turn signal arrows on rear-view mirrors: I don't understand why Lexus left this out of the LS. They could do auto-folding mirrors but no turn signal lights? They work very well on the Avalon and believe it or not, do make a difference when changing lanes.
Features on LS-only:
Active cornering headlights: Useless but cool to show off
Bluetooth phone: Extremely useful and very well integrated. Excellent sound quality. Goodbye bluetooth headset!
Automatic swinging air registers: I love how it detects passengers and changes the aim and oscillation pattern depending on the fan speed, heat in the car, and weight on passenger seat.
Automatic Folding rear-view mirrors: very nice feature for us urbanites. I park on the street and this is a huge plus for me. Those that have a nice spot at work and driveway at home might care less.
Avalon favorites:
Small smart-key fob
reclining rear seats
NAV screen with no sun glare
HUGE rear legroom
**Front wheel drive - a BIG plus for snowy climates only, much better than RWD.
LS favorites:
-Rock-solid body (extremely minimal body flex)
-Super-quiet at any speed - Seems to get quieter above 80mph; no longer "hear" wet roads when its raining
-Exterior looks
-Bluetooth phone
Conclusion:
Would I pay $60K (out-the-door price for the original owner of my LS) for a NEW LS?
Absolutely not. Considering my finances and budget, the added features/performance are not worth the extra $20K compared to the Avalon.Would I pay $22K for a used LS with 43K mi again?
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES!! It is worth every penny. Although I "downgraded" to a car that is 2 years older than my Avalon, I now drive a car that is safer, more reliable, better looking, and better performing.
Last edited by SerasLibre; 06-01-09 at 06:06 AM.
05-31-09, 04:15 AM
#2
Wow...great review!!! Thanks a million! I have been looking for someone to do this type of review.
You rented an '08 Avalon...did you notice the increase power due to the new 6-speed transmission?? I think that for 2008 or 2009, the rear power sunshade comes up automatically when you shift out of reverse. The '08 Avalon also comes with bigger rear disc brakes...not sure if that will make any difference in a family car.
What was the fuel economy like on the LS vs. your Avalon??
Thanks again.
You rented an '08 Avalon...did you notice the increase power due to the new 6-speed transmission?? I think that for 2008 or 2009, the rear power sunshade comes up automatically when you shift out of reverse. The '08 Avalon also comes with bigger rear disc brakes...not sure if that will make any difference in a family car.
What was the fuel economy like on the LS vs. your Avalon??
Thanks again.
05-31-09, 05:04 AM
#3
great review. i always love reading these comparisons....
as for the key fob question you had..."what happened Lexus?" im assuming you wanted to know why the Avalons was smaller and more sleek than the LS...i'd say it's because your Avalon was 2 years NEWER than your 04 LS
as for the key fob question you had..."what happened Lexus?" im assuming you wanted to know why the Avalons was smaller and more sleek than the LS...i'd say it's because your Avalon was 2 years NEWER than your 04 LS
05-31-09, 05:45 AM
#4
Welcome to the LS crowd !!
Also welcome to the used car buyers crowd.
Good review and you were giving the Avalon the best chance since you had the top option package.
The Limited now stickers for over $35k and you can get an awesome low mileage LS430 for that.
Also welcome to the used car buyers crowd.
Good review and you were giving the Avalon the best chance since you had the top option package.
The Limited now stickers for over $35k and you can get an awesome low mileage LS430 for that.
05-31-09, 06:05 AM
#5
Wow...great review!!! Thanks a million! I have been looking for someone to do this type of review.
You rented an '08 Avalon...did you notice the increase power due to the new 6-speed transmission?? I think that for 2008 or 2009, the rear power sunshade comes up automatically when you shift out of reverse. The '08 Avalon also comes with bigger rear disc brakes...not sure if that will make any difference in a family car.
What was the fuel economy like on the LS vs. your Avalon??
Thanks again.
You rented an '08 Avalon...did you notice the increase power due to the new 6-speed transmission?? I think that for 2008 or 2009, the rear power sunshade comes up automatically when you shift out of reverse. The '08 Avalon also comes with bigger rear disc brakes...not sure if that will make any difference in a family car.
What was the fuel economy like on the LS vs. your Avalon??
Thanks again.
Fuel economy on the LS appears to be 2-3 mpg less in all conditions.
great review. i always love reading these comparisons....
as for the key fob question you had..."what happened Lexus?" im assuming you wanted to know why the Avalons was smaller and more sleek than the LS...i'd say it's because your Avalon was 2 years NEWER than your 04 LS
as for the key fob question you had..."what happened Lexus?" im assuming you wanted to know why the Avalons was smaller and more sleek than the LS...i'd say it's because your Avalon was 2 years NEWER than your 04 LS
I test drove an 06' LS430 ML black/black with 10K miles in absolute pristine shape that the owner wanted to sell for $32K. I was tempted to go for it but this was higher than retail $ and the owner wouldn't budge.
From my research, I found that used cars in private sales nowadays are going roughly for trade-in value as listed on the pricing sites. Some LS owners are flexible/fair on pricing, but this is very rare.
05-31-09, 06:45 AM
#6
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What a great side-by-side comparision. I would love to see more cars compared to the LS430 like this. As you said the LS is a bargain as a used car and that is exactly what drew me to it. Lots of good, safe and enjoyable miles with your new machine.
05-31-09, 07:06 AM
#7
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Great review! I too test drove both before settling on the LS430. One of the key comparison for me was hill climbing and I noticed the LS430 was effortless with the V8 and the Avalon was trying a little and much noiser going up the steep hills.
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05-31-09, 11:24 AM
#9
When I find Avalons at a traffic light ot stop signs I feel that those drivers look at me with envy! Is my head messed up or is it true?
05-31-09, 05:05 PM
#11
Nice review. I see you got the ML, which I think may not have had the "real" smart access/keyless entry. The LS430 smartaccess was still larger than the current smartaccess key, but not much bigger.
If you get the CL or UL, it'll blow the Avalon away in every way.
If you get the CL or UL, it'll blow the Avalon away in every way.
05-31-09, 06:40 PM
#13
Stand corrected
Thanks.
