RA40

iTrader: (6)

No disagreement from me on using Toyota's Type IV or WS (On the '04+ models) to make sure of proper spec on running our transmissions. Under the anti-trust laws these fluids should conform to spec though the finer points can contribute to various situations. In the long term as we have here, the choices made early on will begin showing up.

I don't have doubts that by using the manufacturers fluid we'll get the proper longevity for our cars. I haven't had a fluid analysis on the tranny yet. Maybe this next round. At this stage it comes pretty late since there is no baseline from 60K, 100K and so on.

jaaa

My take is quite different than is what is usually brought in this discussion. If you as a car manufacturer can simple state "Use only -fill in the blank- fluid" in your owners manual and get a good majority of people to blindly pay double the going rate for transmission fluid, wouldn't they do that? I always hear from people who state that their company knows best about what should be put in their transmissions. So you really think manufacturers really put the best fluid in?(regardless of the bottom line?) I'm old enough to remember Ford failing to put a $10 part in their cars to stop rear end collision fatalities. They choose the litigation route and just paid off the survivors. To me, car companies are not altruistic, and have a more bottom line way of thinking about what to put into their cars. Perhaps Lexus is slightly better, who knows? That being said, I'll not post again for(like our moderator said) I'm sure there are a myriad of posts on this subject.

aptoslexus

Fwiw, Toyota Type IV is Mobil jws-3309 in a different bottle. The specs are identical. If your Toyota dealer is charging absurd amounts for Type IV (as my local dealer does), you can just track down the Mobil variety or the other varieties of Mobil 3309 that carry other brand names such as Idemitsu. You can find 5 or 10 packs on ebay for a reasonable price with free shipping.

RA40

iTrader: (6)

All this said, let's see an analysis and we'll have some numbers to go on.

AaronUCF11

I was quoted $48/5liters at the local dealership, i needed about 8L so 2 bottles. Nearly $100 i couldnt really afford at the time. I use a castrol oil that i paid $0 for. So far no problems.

Stereorob

I don't mess with my transmission or on any Ls400 unless I absolutely have to. that kind of stuff scares me. ive had mine 4 years and have never touched it. it doesn't leak and the fluid isn't horrible and I wont mess with it until I absolutely have to.

PureDrifter

iTrader: (10)

This is because Toyota didn't make the transmissions, Aisin AW/Aisin Seiki did. Aisin also makes/made transmissions for a host of other manufacturers including Volvo, Mazda, Ford, Porsche, Jeep, Dodge, Alfa Romeo, Hyundai, and more.

So much importance is being placed on LS400 transmissions being made of glass that I'd like to take a moment to remind you all of the following:

89-94 LS400s use the A341e, also seen on the volvo 960 (I believe) series as well as the JDM only chaser/cresta behind a 1JZ-GTE (6cyl-turbo) engine.

95-97 LS400s use the A340e (aka 30-40LE), also seen on the Toyota Supra Turbo (MK3 and 4), the supercharged Previa, the T100 Truck, the Jeep Cherokee. the Tacoma, the 4Runner, and more.

All these makes use the same transmissions with the same fluid requirements, and there are few reports of failures afaik of owners using properly spec'd JWS-3309 fluid, universal or otherwise.

dicer

http://www.motorweek.org/features/go...nsmission_talk

But yeah if it goes against the grain they are know nothings. I can get this same type of info from a Transmission fluid engineer that used to work at Mercedes, but what does he know? The Max life politicians are the experts.

JradCelly

In my experience nothing but original spec OEM fluid is good for these transmissions. I had a shop I used to trust do my tranny fluid flush about a year ago in August, since my car had been a good 3 years without any fluid flush or change ( it was at about 85000 km at that point. They said everything looked great and that the transmission looked awesome.

4 or 5 months later my transmission starting acting really weird and I checked the fluid myself and it looked AWFUL and smelled like it was burnt to a CRISP. ended up draining and doing a redneck flush in my buddy's garage and putting toyota fluid in it, after about 3 weeks the transmission shifts like it's brand new, and the fluid has been red and clear and smells brand new even now like 4 months later.

I was curious and went back to the shop and they told me they put in Max life Universal Atf. Now in my personal opinion if an Atf fluid "Can" be used in like 50 different transmissions of different makes Its garbage because how can it be formulated perfectly for each one ? I'm no expert but that's how I feel. I got a little mad at them but I guess places will just put in whatever they want unless you specify otherwise.

Needless to say I've stopped letting shops do my maintenence and I've stuck with OEM everything as long as I can. I've had my Celsior for 4 years now and they are finely tuned and we'll engineered cars and they NEED TO be treated properly and have the properly specced fluids used !

I couldn't Believe how much damage that crap fluid did and how easy it was for me to fix the problem and have it back to normal.

Cheers,
-Jared

GasBuggy

Doing a flush is a good way to kill a transmission. ATF is a strong detergent and when you replace all the fluid at once in a transmission that hasn't seen frequent changes it breaks apart build up quickly and sends trash through the transmission into the filter. With a transmission that hasn't followed a schedule correctly, the best way to change the ATF is in small increments.


I did some reading. The Type IV is made by Mobil and it's not anything magical, a non synthetic good for shorter intervals. The cost differences between Maxlife and the Toyota fluid isn't significant. I would get the Toyota stuff if I had to buy one.

dicer

You won't find magical but you will find proprietary. No matter who makes what in business when you farm out to someone else to make something for you, you would make them sign a non discloser, meaning they can't tell what is done, and can not copy and sell it.
Many years ago I worked at a place that did Research and development work for certain outfits, I got to see special new products that you now use long before they were mass produced. All considered top secret, companies want that competitive edge with new products. So any special fluids will be treated the same way.

PureDrifter

iTrader: (10)

You don't seem to understand the meaning of this word.

pro·pri·e·tar·y
p(r)əˈprīəˌterē/
adjective
1.
of or relating to an owner or ownership.


Neither Toyota, nor Aisin OWN the type-4 fluid specifiction. They simply specified the fluid properties they want to Mobil, MObil creates the JWS3309 standard, and makes/sells the fluid themselves with private labels for everyone using the Aisin transmissions, including Toyota/Lexus, Volvo, Jeep, and others I've listed earlier.

Mobil likely has a copyright on the specific formula they use to create their JWS3309 ATF, but that does not mean that any other manufacturer is prevented from creating a fluid that matches the fluid properties. Amsoil has had a 3309 compliant fluid for years upon years. Valvoline has had TWO. The maxlife is just the newer one.

dicer

If you read what I said you will see I understand the meaning perfectly. If it is made for Toyota and Toyota contracted them to do so then yes they own it. It would be their special formula. An oil company is not going to make a special automatic transmission fluid just because. They do it because the manufacture has a meeting with them and says here is what we need, "do you want to make it?" Go ahead and spec fluid but if they have a few special additives its theirs only and gets the Toyota label. And mobil can't copy it and sell it without permission and is why everything else messes up the transmissions. Just because something meets a spec it doesn't mean its the same stuff in it. And the spec likely just covers things like viscosity and coefficient of friction etc. No matter, the Mercedes engineer that I talked to explained to me max life didn't even come close to what they wanted in the transmissions even though it is spec'ed for it. Yet many places use it. So the argument is mute. There is no universal automatic transmission fluid period. And that's what this whole thread is about.

PureDrifter

iTrader: (10)

You really do lack some type of reading comprehension or reasoning, either that or you did not take the time to read literally anything I've posted. You simply keep repeating yourself with anecdotes rather than any supporting evidence.

1- Toyota contracted Mobil to make the fluid for resale, it is a PRIVATE LABEL of an EXISTING FLUID (JWS3309) that Mobil already makes. T-IV is literally the same stuff, different bottle/label. Same as Volvo 116-1540-8.

2- Toyota doesn't own anything, they didn't even make the transmission, Aisin did. Aisin also made the same/similar transmissions for other makes. Aisin sets the fluid spec, not the vehicle manufacturers.

3- Again, Mobil CREATED the fluid in the FIRST PLACE. For Aisin. Of course they make fluid that works well in the LS400 and other Aisin transmissions requiring the fluid, THEY'RE THE SOURCE IN THE FIRST PLACE!

Obviously no single fluid will meet all specifications (hence no literally universal transmission fluid exists), but there are several non-Mobil-sourced fluids that meet the JWS3309 spec needed to work properly in the Aisin transmissions found in the LS400.

You cannot simply declare yourself correct in a vacuum while there has been a large amount of evidence disputing what you're claiming to be canon. Post evidence, not hearsay, not stories, not stuff a single mechanic may have told you. Substantive, reasonably sourced, evidence.

another link from Mobil: http://www.chemcorp.co.uk/creo_files...l_atf_3309.pdf

python

iTrader: (4)

im not a fan of one size fits all..but trust and believe valvoline would have a mess of law suits on their hands if they claimed a fluid would work..or meet a certain spec when in fact it didnt.
i buy the toyota stuff from the dealer,but i get a discount...i also get a discount at work,in fact right now the maxlife..part number 324 is on sale for 3.99 a quart. dicer ur off base on this..as pure drifter has spelled everything out for u. its safe to use maxlife..do i use? no.