Challenging No-Start / No-Spark Condition
11-09-15, 05:16 AM
#16
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Thank you both. Yes - 1997.
Yamae - the interesting thing is that the problem almost all the time happens after the car is parked after a drive. It seems that as the heat builds up in the engine compartment, that is part of the cause.
When the car is driving, or after being parked the hood/bonnet is raised, then the problem does not occur. (Note: it has happened while driving two times, but 99 times out of 100, the problem only happens after parked heat soak.) Seems to me that when there is airflow in the engine compartment, the problem does not occur.
Based on your experience, would the igniters be likely suspect where even though the igniter is triggering the coils correctly, the IGF feedback is not working correctly?
Thank you!
Yamae - the interesting thing is that the problem almost all the time happens after the car is parked after a drive. It seems that as the heat builds up in the engine compartment, that is part of the cause.
When the car is driving, or after being parked the hood/bonnet is raised, then the problem does not occur. (Note: it has happened while driving two times, but 99 times out of 100, the problem only happens after parked heat soak.) Seems to me that when there is airflow in the engine compartment, the problem does not occur.
Based on your experience, would the igniters be likely suspect where even though the igniter is triggering the coils correctly, the IGF feedback is not working correctly?
Thank you!
I myself didn't have any experience of inginters failing only when hot. If your problem is related to it, one idea is to check heating up the igniter using a hair drier which can blow out 120 degrees C / 248 degrees F air. I'd check the igniter works OK after heating up enough.
11-09-15, 03:49 PM
#17
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Hello Yamae - I have tried the hair drier test (very scientific!), several weeks ago. I cannot say actual air temperature, but too hot to hold on your skin for more than 2 or 3 seconds. I attempted to heat the fuse/relay panel, the crank position sensor and the igniters. I could not replicate the problem this way.
I might buy one used igniter. Then when problem occurs again, I will quickly use this igniter to replace (one at a time), the two igniters on the car. If the car starts with new igniter, I suppose I found the problem. I can buy a used igniter for about $20, so perhaps worth a try.
Thank you!
I might buy one used igniter. Then when problem occurs again, I will quickly use this igniter to replace (one at a time), the two igniters on the car. If the car starts with new igniter, I suppose I found the problem. I can buy a used igniter for about $20, so perhaps worth a try.
Thank you!
11-10-15, 05:39 PM
#18
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So you have already tried to use a hair drier. It may be an idea to use another one if it's available inexpensively.
I still worry about sensors which have a magnet inside. I have experienced those to fail at high temperature. Some were related to the connection issue and some to the Curie point.
The Curie point is the temperature at which certain materials lose their permanent magnetic properties. Even at a bit low that temperature, many magnets reduce the strength. My sub car Subaru had this problem and I had to replace the cam position sensor.
I still worry about sensors which have a magnet inside. I have experienced those to fail at high temperature. Some were related to the connection issue and some to the Curie point.
The Curie point is the temperature at which certain materials lose their permanent magnetic properties. Even at a bit low that temperature, many magnets reduce the strength. My sub car Subaru had this problem and I had to replace the cam position sensor.
11-19-15, 03:39 AM
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SOLVED.
Oh my, this was challenging. The last thing that I did was to swap out igniters one at a time with a replacement. That didn't make any difference. That was pretty much the last item for me to check. I also check the main relays (fuel pump, cut out, EFI) and they all checked out.
I even started to look at the fuel pump / fuel system / fuel pump resistor, but it all looked OK and checked out. One note for future readers, the fuel pump on this car is very, very quiet. Unless I got into the trunk, or took the back seat back out, it was difficult to hear. So when you are sitting in the drivers seat and you don't hear the pump running, don't make the assumption that it isn't.
Anyway, when I was out of ideas, I began to gently push and prod on all the electrical connectors and wiring harness in the engine bay. When I pushed in the area of the wiring connectors near the furthest front drivers side fuel injector the engine would die. This was repeatable...finally, I was onto something!! There are three connectors in that area. One is the fuel injector connector, one is a two wire connector, and one a six wire connector. When I pushed on the six wire connector the engine would die. The wires were packed pretty tight in this area and it also appears someone had taken off the six wire connector in the past and it seemed to be twisted 360 degrees from optium which made the wires a little twisted and strained. When I looked closely at the wiring, it appeared that one of the wires was maybe getting pinched against some of the sharper aluminum edge of the block (near the valve cover). So I'm thinking as the engine became warm after a heat soak, that had an influence on the wire. Guess which wire this was? Crank position sensor.
I gave the wiring in this area more room and removed stress and I can no longer repeat the problem.
Lesson learned - if you have an intermittent electrical problem, push and gently pull on all the engine bay wiring and connectors and see if you can cause your problem. It might just be a physical wiring or connector problem.
Thanks to everyone, especially Yamae & Dicer in trying to help with this problem.
Oh my, this was challenging. The last thing that I did was to swap out igniters one at a time with a replacement. That didn't make any difference. That was pretty much the last item for me to check. I also check the main relays (fuel pump, cut out, EFI) and they all checked out.
I even started to look at the fuel pump / fuel system / fuel pump resistor, but it all looked OK and checked out. One note for future readers, the fuel pump on this car is very, very quiet. Unless I got into the trunk, or took the back seat back out, it was difficult to hear. So when you are sitting in the drivers seat and you don't hear the pump running, don't make the assumption that it isn't.
Anyway, when I was out of ideas, I began to gently push and prod on all the electrical connectors and wiring harness in the engine bay. When I pushed in the area of the wiring connectors near the furthest front drivers side fuel injector the engine would die. This was repeatable...finally, I was onto something!! There are three connectors in that area. One is the fuel injector connector, one is a two wire connector, and one a six wire connector. When I pushed on the six wire connector the engine would die. The wires were packed pretty tight in this area and it also appears someone had taken off the six wire connector in the past and it seemed to be twisted 360 degrees from optium which made the wires a little twisted and strained. When I looked closely at the wiring, it appeared that one of the wires was maybe getting pinched against some of the sharper aluminum edge of the block (near the valve cover). So I'm thinking as the engine became warm after a heat soak, that had an influence on the wire. Guess which wire this was? Crank position sensor.
I gave the wiring in this area more room and removed stress and I can no longer repeat the problem.
Lesson learned - if you have an intermittent electrical problem, push and gently pull on all the engine bay wiring and connectors and see if you can cause your problem. It might just be a physical wiring or connector problem.
Thanks to everyone, especially Yamae & Dicer in trying to help with this problem.
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