psychot|K

Hey,
I'm considering an LS400 for my next car. I need something very reliable and very luxurious in terms of the comfort and ride quality and definetly road noise. So i look in the auto trader and I see 91-94 LS's and then after that, from 95-98 they look a little different. Exterior has change same with the interior. Well it is between these 2 generations i'm having trouble choosing from. The 95+'s run about 20k CAD, and i've seen some 92's go for under 10k CAD! But here's the question: what are the differences, in terms of everything from luxury to dependability to ride quality to road noise, between the 91-94's and the 95-98's?

Thanks again people. I appreciate any help or references to links.

Chris

spxChrome

Whatever you do get a 2nd gen. if you can. My 1st gen has been a bottomless money pit. And make sure it has had timing belt if needed and a new power steering pump and instrument cluster. If these are not new then expect to pay $3500 right off the bat because all these will be needed on 1st gen.

XxLS400xX

Dont listen to this guy above. He just bought bad LS. My 90 LS with 170,000 miles has been running strong ever since i got it. Just make sure u check everything by a professional and everything is in working good. All LS's are strong and can hold up to alot of abuse. Dont let bad seed spoil urthoughts

Lvangundy

XxLS400xX -

This is not entirely true. There are many parts to a car which not everyone is fully aware of that require maintenance or replacement. Although your car may be running strong, there could be other things that contribute to excessive wear on things which may be in good condition. Do you have a history of everything that has been replaced on your car? Do you know what components fail more often than others and according to the maintenance schedule, when they need to be replaced?

Each car's individual maintenance record has a lot to do with the car's condition and how it 'feels.' My car has had a very well maintenance record (pointing back to the VERY beginning) but it still has a few problems. Age seems to have more to do with a Lexus wearing down although a semi-strict maintenance schedule must be followed. Along the lines of time, this will eventually happen with the second generation LS cars when their time comes around. They will be much cheaper like the first generation LS's and probably will need a few thousand $ to be restored.

A first generation LS400 can be a great investment but it requires more money to get to a condition where it can be trouble free as a daily driver for the many years you hope to enjoy it. Also as XxLSxx mentioned these cars will last a VERY long time if properly maintained. His car with 170,000 miles could possibly go past 300,000 or 400,000 miles. Spxchrome is correct in that unless you plan on it, these cars can be expensive. If you do decide on either generation expect that neither of the cars will ride perfectly as a new car would. Even a second generation LS may require some investment. You may want to set aside $2,000 for a full engine tune up, check, and suspension repair.

A few tips, if you're going for the first generation LS look for 1993-1994. Don't bother with 1990-1992. 1993 is 'generally' regarded as the most reliable and had the most additions in features for it's generation. The second generation of LS's had hundreds of improvements including a more powerful engine and a much quieter ride.

Hope this makes sense and is not just an attempt to convince you of somethign without an explanation.

hyperopt

I read (somewhere??) that rated 93-94 to be the most reliable LS, but I like 98-00 styling though. My two first generation LS are the cheapest 10+ years vehicles I have ever owned. No problem so far except for a bad LCD & CD changer when the first car was bought. That same car is now slowly drinking PS fluid and I am watching it closely. I don't anticipate it would cost me more than $150 to repair so no biggy. I would advise you to buy the newest LS that you could afford if you don't know how to work on car, otherwise, the first generation is the best value for your money.

spxChrome

Don't get me wrong all the gens are great cars. All I was trying to say is the newer the better. And for the 1st gens there are a few issues that almost everybody has and the more of those issues that have been resolved the less $$$ you will have to spend to get them fixed.

Those are the Power Steering Pump, Instrument Cluster, AC/TEMP LCD. These 3 items fail on a lot of 1st gen lexus.

Just like any 1st gen car, there are issues that are usually resolved in the 2nd gen.

psychot|K

so would i be right in assuming that the concensus is to spend the extra 5-10k CAD and get a 95?

pscmj

For what it’s worth, just thought I’d throw in my two cents. I bought a 1994 Anniversary Edition in March 2001, had 73K miles. Thought it was a great car, and I still like this body style better than the 2nd and 3rd gen, but it did become a “major” money pit. I suppose one might expect this on any luxury car over 5 years old, or with more than 60K miles, but I had never owned a luxury car prior to this one, so it never occurred to me to consider maintenance, repair or parts replacement costs before I bought it. That was a huge error on my part. I own a ’88 Acura Legend, bought it used back in ‘89, and it now has ~216K miles on it. I’ve always had the major services done on it at the dealer, but in no way did my experience with the Legend prepare me for what was ahead on the Lexus. I mistakenly assumed the upkeep and repair costs would be comparable. I have listed below the problems/costs I encountered or was about to encounter before I traded it at 88K miles for a 2000 RX. I got a great trade-in allowance, but it still gives me major “heart-burn” and agony to think about what I spent on it in the 18 months or so I had it.


Problems I encountered:

- Instrument panel - ~$1,000 from dealer (other very viable and cheaper options have been listed here on CL, but still a major consideration)
- 60K service - $900
- 90K service - $1,100
- suspension struts - ~$1,000
- front end will begin to make popping noises … ball joints, etc $1,000
- tires - ~$700
- brakes - ~600
- plugs, wires - $400
- TPS - ~$80 (P/N 89452-22090 from irontoad.com)
- EGR valve - ~$300 (from irontoad.com)
- Stereo speaker cones that crack with age – my right front Nak speaker bagan to rattle/buzz, was $400 (not including labor) from dealer (4” Nak speakers weren’t available except from dealer) – I repaired mine with a pliable type glue that bridged the crack in the cone.
- Bumpers and bottom cladding painted surfaces get very thin – to the point of showing through to the primer, and also show severe “rag” scratches-$400 to repaint
- Inherent annoying problems such as hesitation that seemingly can’t be diagnosed/corrected


Other areas of concern from other owners:

- P/S fluid leaks
- Coolant leaks around the overflow reservoir – $150
- LCD display for temp and radio - ~$600
- A/C – make sure and get 1993/1994 since they have the newer freon systems
- P/S fluid leaks


To answer your original question, please consider the above items on ANY LS400 you buy, regardless of the generation. IMHO, the best LS for the money right now would be the '97, if money weren't an issue, then the 2000 would be the best of all. I wish you the best. Three months out, I am beginning to miss my LS ... I guess absence does makes the heart grow fonder.

dunn378

i have a 91 with 214,000 miles on it and haven't put anymore money into the car than normal. second of all i think the 1st generation Ls400 looks waaaaayyy better than the 2nd. personally i would not spend $10000 more for the newer model. just my 2cents!!

Pilot

I bought a 91 LS400 with 110,000 miles. I soon discovered the rear engine seal was leaking. I took the car to the dealer to replace, and was told that my power steering pump was leaking, and the water pump was leaking. I ended up spending 2500.00 to fix these items within weeks of getting the car. The transmission had to come out to get at the rear engine seal. About 2 months later, I had the timing belt changed as well as all three front engine oil seals. They were not leaking, but were easy to change, and out in the open while changing the timing belt. About 2 months after this my A/C quit. I recruited a Lexus mechanic to work on my car after hours at my house. He discovered a leak in the evaporator coil, and also found the expansion valve plugged. These items were over 600.00. About a month later the A/C compressor started a loud clacking noise. We thought it might be the clutch, but discovered it was the entire compressor. The clutch was badly worn and had to be replaced as well. This cost me about 1200.00.
My mechanic showed me the loose lower ball joints, and how they moved up and down with the car off the ground. I replaced these myself as well as new Tokico Blue struts. After the new struts, I was hearing a clicking noise in the front end. It turned out to be the upper control arm bushings. I let it go for awhile but it was driving me crazy. Today I changed out the upper control arms. which cost me over 650.00 in parts and shipping. I also installed new front brake rotors and new pads. I recently installed new Bridgestone Turanza tires. The car now has 135,000 miles, and I have spent over 5K fixing on the car over the past year that I have owned it. It now needs new valve cover gaskets, as there is a very small leak that is burring on the exhaust, and you can smell it. I also need a new A/C display, or send mine in to get rebuilt. In spite of the fact that I have spent more money on the this car than all cars I have owned in my lifetime combined, I still love this car more than any other car. I was driving a new Ford F150, and sold it to buy a very used LS400. It has been a labor of love and I have done much of the work myself. I just hope I can slow down the money drain and enjoy the car for many miles. I would take a complete bath if I were to trade it now, after spending a fortune to fix it back to new standards. I made a value judgment that this car was worth it to invest this money. I boughtthe book on the history of the Lexus, and I will never be the same. The level of engineering is something to behold!
There are only 2 other items which have not been replaced, and they are the alternator, and the starter. I hope they both keep right on working for some time! Oh, one more thing, I installed a new Sears Diehard battery! The car looks new on the outside as well as the inside. My neighbor even asked me if I bought a new Lexus! He was shocked when I told him it was 12 years old and had over 100K on it! I have one time driven the car at 145 MPH for a very short distance, and it was still accelerating, and was glass smooth and very quiet.

Pilot
91 LS400
01 RX300

spxChrome

Pilot,

You took the words right out of my mouth. Your story sounds exactly like mine. I bought a 93 used with 95,000 K on it and have spend over $4,000 on the car and have not even had it 2 weeks. I had all the same work done, timing belt, ps pump, brakes rotors, 4 new tires, plugs, wires, rotors, caps. Need bushings and ac/temp fixed still. And good luck on your Intrument Cluster, this is common and mine has started to act up (needles not working unless it warms up). this is a $1500 board unless it is the ECU then its only $400. I had a Honda Accord I sold to buy this car which had 180K on it and nothing wrong. I have had it since it had 26 miles on it and just needed routine maint. But I love the lex. The outside looks brand new, even got new center caps and emblem package. Inside looks great except drivers seat leather is cracked a little.

I had the same thinking about the car lasting forever and not needing much work. I got spoiled by my 99 ES which has been a dream.

The older LS is a much diff story. Needed alot of work but once I sink $6K- $7K into it the car will last forever. xfingers I haven't had it past 80 because I am so nervous with all the repairs it has needed that I am afraid I might blow something up. And that is a feeling that sucks. If I want to get sporting I just hop in my ES. Much faster pickup and handleing - but its also 6 years newer

bluestar

Reading the last three posts you'd believe this is typical of LS's. Far from it. I have a '99 with 74K miles. Looks and drives like new. No problem to report. None whatsoever....

My take is this. It's all about maintanance. Buying a used car, the buyer must do their due dilligence. Have the car properly checked out, don't assume anything. The beauty of Lex is that before you buy that used Lex from a private party, you can take it in to a Lex dealership and have them run the VIN to see what repairs were performed on that car. The records or lack thereof will tell you if that is the car for you.

pscmj

bluestar,

I am so glad to hear of your good fortune with your '99. As I said in my post, I think the 3rd gens are the best, and I have hopes of some day owning one. I agree that maintenance is one of the most important elements of not only owning a car, but also when considering buying a car. In my case, I went with the person who sold me the car to the local Lexus dealer where he had had all his repairs and maintenance performed, and got a printout of everything that had been done to it since it was new. It had been maticulously maintained. I was in the final stages of my decision to buy the car, and that printout "clinched" the deal. My post tells the rest of the story. One thing that can't be overlooked on these cars is age, not necessarily miles. The first gens, while perhaps looking the best of all of them will require dollars, major dollars, to keep them maintained and running like new.

IMHO, the prior posts of spxChrome, Pilot and myself are typical for the first gens (and now for some of the 2nd gens as they are getting some age on them), especially if they have over 60K miles. What I was really after with my post was to make sure perspective buyers knew of some of the major risks. These ARE great cars, but the issues brought out in the prior three posts tend to negate their beaty, quietness, and quality, etc. If however, a perspective buyer does his/her homework, and buys one like in my case that has had most of the issues addressed, then they can be assured that they are getting a car that will most likely last another 3-4 years and/or another 60K miles without spending big dollars.

GSquicksilver

man, you guys could have saved so much more money if you didn't let the dealership do the work for you. they charge too much and their service isn't that great either. i'd rather let a personal mechanic do the work and buy the OEM parts for him to change. also the power steering pump doesn't have to be changed if it is leaking. you can buy a reseal kit from lexus for about 30 bucks and have ur mechanic reseal it. he'll probably charge you 50 bucks for labor. compare that to around 800 bucks the dealership wants (cerritos lexus). also the main seal leak. if you let the dealership replace it, you could spend up to like 700 bucks. if you let a personal mechanic do the work, you would spend around 200-250 for it. waterpump leak? dude, good rule of thumb, change your water pump everytime you change your timing belt. just normal wear and tear.

and one thing, when you are checking out a first gen LS and if you do see leaks and stuff, POINT IT OUT TO THE SELLER and bargain the crap out of him. nuff said.

rybikowsky

Most of what needed to be said has been. In my case, being a person far from having great wealth, I have learned to do most of the work on my cars and motorcycles over the years. I have owned a lot of mercedes and now my first lexus a 1992. I had a friend who is an independent tech. I got him to do the timeing belt water pump and seals. and to give the car a good check over. Have a little over one hundred thousand miles.This car is Outstanding.I bought It used from a lexus dealer.Paid a little more but got a car that had been taken care of and was liked so much by it previous owner that he bought another new one.What this boils down to is that these are luxury cars. What does that mean, It means an exceptional auto,and exceptional prices. One great thing for us buyers is these cars do not have the resale value they should.makeing it very easy for many people to buy,that should not. I have seen this same situation with people buying horses. They will go buy some hot blooded breed, than are shocked about the type and amount of feed the horse needs,They also find out that these horses are more prone to injury and illness.Vets are not cheap.Buy what you can afford. But put more than just the price of the car in the equation.Have run my mouth enough Good luck.