98 ls400 rear rattle + shake at 50 & 65 mph
#1
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
98 ls400 rear rattle + shake at 50 & 65 mph
Hello! I'm encountering a vibration that feels like it is coming from the rear of my 98 ls400 when driving at 50 & 65 mph. sometimes i can see the steering wheel shake slightly at these speeds. I also get what feels like a thud or bang coming from the rear when shifting from park to drive. I recently got the front inner tie rod ends & front tires replaced (1 moog problem solver, 1 raybestos professional grade part, & 2 michelin MxV4 H speed tires were used). I also got a 4 wheel alignment & got all 4 tires balanced. This helped in the vibration issues that i have, but they are still there.
Just last friday, i decided to replace the transmission mount to see if that would help. I got a new OEM transmission mount from sewell & replaced it. When compared to the new mount, this one was collapsed, but I didn't think it was too bad, but i replaced it with the new part anyway. replacing the tranny mount helped a bit in fixing the thud/bang that i would get when shifting from park to drive, but the thud/bang that i get is still there sometimes.
I decided to put the car up on jack stands & rev it till the speedometer hits 50 & 65 mph to see if i could find the location of the vibrations & i noticed that whenever i go 50+mph, i get what sounds like a rattle & vibration from the rear of the car. I also noticed that the inner side of rear tire on the driver's side is getting uneven wear. below is a video of the noise & vibration that im getting:
At this point, i'm not sure what is causing the noise & vibration. Could it be a bad differential/differential mount, or a bad strut bar bushing? what do you guys think? Thanks for your time!
Just last friday, i decided to replace the transmission mount to see if that would help. I got a new OEM transmission mount from sewell & replaced it. When compared to the new mount, this one was collapsed, but I didn't think it was too bad, but i replaced it with the new part anyway. replacing the tranny mount helped a bit in fixing the thud/bang that i would get when shifting from park to drive, but the thud/bang that i get is still there sometimes.
I decided to put the car up on jack stands & rev it till the speedometer hits 50 & 65 mph to see if i could find the location of the vibrations & i noticed that whenever i go 50+mph, i get what sounds like a rattle & vibration from the rear of the car. I also noticed that the inner side of rear tire on the driver's side is getting uneven wear. below is a video of the noise & vibration that im getting:
At this point, i'm not sure what is causing the noise & vibration. Could it be a bad differential/differential mount, or a bad strut bar bushing? what do you guys think? Thanks for your time!
#2
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
just got back from a mechanic. turns out all 4 wheels were out of balance (even though balancing was just done less than 2 weeks ago). The mechanic that i spoke with also noticed that my rear rotors are warped & need to be replaced & my differential bushings need to be replaced as well. So far, the car feels a bit smoother driving at 50mph, but i haven't tried 65mph yet. But it strange how the tires went out of balance so quickly. I plan to get my alignment checked again later on today & will work on getting the differential bushings & rotors replaced some time next month & will (hopefully) update when that's done.
#3
Burning question...is were those new tires? What brand and how did the balance and install? Not really likely they to out of balance so quickly... maybe the weights weren't put on correctly and were spun off as you were driving.
Rear rotors are on closeout at rockauto (Brembo) for $18 a piece... not a bad price.
Rear rotors are on closeout at rockauto (Brembo) for $18 a piece... not a bad price.
#4
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
Burning question...is were those new tires? What brand and how did the balance and install? Not really likely they to out of balance so quickly... maybe the weights weren't put on correctly and were spun off as you were driving.
As for the balance, every shop that i took it to used a spin balancing machine (the ones that spins the wheel for you & it tells you where to apply the weights). I was doing some research on balancing & it looks like the most accurate method is to use a road force balance machine (http://tires.about.com/od/Tire_Safet...-Balancing.htm). I came across a company named hunter that manufactures & sells a type of road force balancer called gsp9700. I was using their locator tool (http://www.gsp9700.com/search/findgsp9700.cfm) to locate a shop that has this balancer & it looks like this is the same type of balancer that many of the dealerships, including lexus of orlando, uses (pic attached). at this moment the shaking at 50 & 65 mph is much better & almost gone, but it is still there a bit. I might make some calls to some of these shops to see how much it would be to get this type of balancing done. Though at this point it may be my warped rotors or differential bushings that may be contributing more to the vibration now.
Rear rotors are on closeout at rockauto (Brembo) for $18 a piece... not a bad price.
#5
Can't see warped rotors causing the vibration... except when you hit the brakes and the calipers come into play.... but I'm not a brake expert. Glad you got some of it figured out.. hope you can get it all tweaked out...
Good luck and thanks for answering the question.
Good luck and thanks for answering the question.
#6
Lead Lap
my bet is still out of balance wheel. Had my new tires balanced by a local shop but i had vibration at 60 kph and 130 kph. Put it on my personal balancer, appears ot be 1.5 oz out. Havent test driven yet.
sorry ididnt read everything, but are u sure your carrier and uppper control arm bushings and BJ are good? My carrier bushign was shot and i also noticed the rear UCA bushings had some deflection to them. that owuld definitly contribute ot vibration.
sorry ididnt read everything, but are u sure your carrier and uppper control arm bushings and BJ are good? My carrier bushign was shot and i also noticed the rear UCA bushings had some deflection to them. that owuld definitly contribute ot vibration.
#7
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
hey guys. ok i have another problem, but not sure if i should put it here or in another thread since its unrelated (mods, feel free to move this thread if you think it should be moved).
anyway, I was using the procedure at (http://www.lexls.com/tutorials/trans...ransflush.html) to flush my transmission fluid today. In total, i took out 9 quarts (stopped when fluid coming out was red) & added only 8.5 (to make sure that i dont overfill the transmission). After this, i checked the fluid level on the dip stick, & it looks like it was overfilled (about one inch above the full mark). at first i though that it would be that way since I havent started the car yet & shifted through the gears as recommended in the tutorial. So i started the car & shifted slowly through at the gears & back as detailed in the above tutorial, but when i went to check the fluid level with the car idling, it still was about 1 inch above the full mark.
I made sure that i took out 9 quarts (in 2 qt intervals) & put in 8.5, so im trying to figure out how its overfilled. For fear of destroying the transmission pump, i did not try driving it. One thing to note though is that I used a synthetic transmission fluid (amsoil: http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produc...?code=ATFQT-EA ) instead of the OEM. I know that OEM fluid is typically recommended for these cars, but i have had success with using this fluid on an es300 before (this issue did not occur when i did a drain & fill on the car with synthetic fluid).
There are only 2 reasons that i can think of for why its high:
1.) fluid viscosity for the synthetic fluid is different than the OEM fluid
2.) the inlet hose that goes to the transmission may be getting pinched by the hose clamp (it didnt look like it was when i was under the vehicle, just a guess...).
any suggestions (especially from people who have successfully performed the above transmission flush) would be greatly appreciated. (again, let me know if its ok to post this question here or if i should add it to or create another thread for it). Thanks for your time!
anyway, I was using the procedure at (http://www.lexls.com/tutorials/trans...ransflush.html) to flush my transmission fluid today. In total, i took out 9 quarts (stopped when fluid coming out was red) & added only 8.5 (to make sure that i dont overfill the transmission). After this, i checked the fluid level on the dip stick, & it looks like it was overfilled (about one inch above the full mark). at first i though that it would be that way since I havent started the car yet & shifted through the gears as recommended in the tutorial. So i started the car & shifted slowly through at the gears & back as detailed in the above tutorial, but when i went to check the fluid level with the car idling, it still was about 1 inch above the full mark.
I made sure that i took out 9 quarts (in 2 qt intervals) & put in 8.5, so im trying to figure out how its overfilled. For fear of destroying the transmission pump, i did not try driving it. One thing to note though is that I used a synthetic transmission fluid (amsoil: http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produc...?code=ATFQT-EA ) instead of the OEM. I know that OEM fluid is typically recommended for these cars, but i have had success with using this fluid on an es300 before (this issue did not occur when i did a drain & fill on the car with synthetic fluid).
There are only 2 reasons that i can think of for why its high:
1.) fluid viscosity for the synthetic fluid is different than the OEM fluid
2.) the inlet hose that goes to the transmission may be getting pinched by the hose clamp (it didnt look like it was when i was under the vehicle, just a guess...).
any suggestions (especially from people who have successfully performed the above transmission flush) would be greatly appreciated. (again, let me know if its ok to post this question here or if i should add it to or create another thread for it). Thanks for your time!
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#9
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
sha4000, thanks for your response. I'm hoping that the level will go down on its own overnight & will check it again in the morning tomorrow. If it doesn't, then I'll do a drain & fill (i haven't dropped the pan on this car since i had it & i have the filter, so it will give me a chance to change it). Hopefully that will get the level right.
#11
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
ok, i drained the transmission fluid from the drain of the transmission pan & tried to drop the transmission, but the bottom lip of the pan got caught on what looks like a small metal bar whenever i tried to take it out (not the dip stick, i was able to remove that). So i just dumped the fluid from the pan into a bucked & measured about 3 quarts. i then reinstalled everything & fill the car with fluid (1.5 quarts). i left it idling for about 10 -15 minutes & checked it & noticed that it was still around the cold mark. i added another half quart & it still appeared to be low. i shifted through all the gears & left it idling for a few more minutes, but the level was above cold but below the bottom of the low mark (for hot). I added another half quart & now it looks like its over filled again. not sure why im having so many problems with this. Im currently at work now, so ill probably drain about 1/4 of a quart out & idle the car for a bit to see if that helps when i get the chance later on today.
EDIT: how long should you wait before checking the fluid when the car is idling? do you wait untill the coolant temp on the dash gets half way? I noticed that before i changed my fluid (when i had the old fluid in the car), it would always stay at the full mark (both when the car was cold & when it was hot). Isn't it supposed to be at the cold mark when its cold? & hot when its hot?
EDIT: how long should you wait before checking the fluid when the car is idling? do you wait untill the coolant temp on the dash gets half way? I noticed that before i changed my fluid (when i had the old fluid in the car), it would always stay at the full mark (both when the car was cold & when it was hot). Isn't it supposed to be at the cold mark when its cold? & hot when its hot?
#12
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
i did another drain & fill. this time, instead of putting 2 quarts in, i just added 60 oz (about 1.9 qts). I think i figured out why i was running into so many problems. my driveway is on a slight incline. normally when im changing fluids, i park the car so that the nose of the vehicle is on the higher side of the incline & the tail is at the lower part of the incline. when i did the fluid change the last 2 times, they were with the nose pointing at the lower end of the incline.
i tried parking the car on a level surface & the fluid level looks like its just below the low mark when hot. however, i know that the transmission is almost at max capacity, so im not too worried about it (better to have a transmission under-filled than overfilled. However, i did notice that the fluid level on these transmissions are very tricky to get just right. I'll probably add another ounce or 2 later on tonight when im driving. but so far, the car shifts smooth (which isn't saying much since the shifts were virtually unnoticeable before i did the change.
i tried parking the car on a level surface & the fluid level looks like its just below the low mark when hot. however, i know that the transmission is almost at max capacity, so im not too worried about it (better to have a transmission under-filled than overfilled. However, i did notice that the fluid level on these transmissions are very tricky to get just right. I'll probably add another ounce or 2 later on tonight when im driving. but so far, the car shifts smooth (which isn't saying much since the shifts were virtually unnoticeable before i did the change.
#14
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
You should always check the fluid after the car is warmed up and on level ground. Are you sure the dipstick is original? Its always better to be a lil overfilled than to be under filled by too much.
I did check it again last night while driving for 30 minutes (on a level surface at a gas station i might add). & Found that the level when hot is actually between the lower & upper marker on the hot portion of the dip stick. I believe that it another problem that i was running into. When i was changing the fluid, i was idling the car until the temp gauge got to normal operating temperature (about half way). However, the transmission fluid would only be warm when doing it this way (it was not truly hot). According to the service manual:
10. AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID LEVEL
(a) Park the vehicle on a level surface.
(b) With the engine idling and the parking and foot brake applied, shift the selector into all positions from
”P” to ”L”, and then shift into ”P”.
(c) Turn and pull out the dipstick and wipe off the fluid with a clean rag. Re–insert the dipstick fully and
check that the fluid level is in the HOT range.
(d) Do this check with the fluid at normal driving temperature (70 – 80°C (158 – 176°F)).
If the level is at the low side, add fluid.
NOTICE:
Do not overfill.
HINT:
Wait about 30 minutes before checking the fluid level after extended driving at high speeds in hot weather,
driving in heavy traffic or with a trailer.
(a) Park the vehicle on a level surface.
(b) With the engine idling and the parking and foot brake applied, shift the selector into all positions from
”P” to ”L”, and then shift into ”P”.
(c) Turn and pull out the dipstick and wipe off the fluid with a clean rag. Re–insert the dipstick fully and
check that the fluid level is in the HOT range.
(d) Do this check with the fluid at normal driving temperature (70 – 80°C (158 – 176°F)).
If the level is at the low side, add fluid.
NOTICE:
Do not overfill.
HINT:
Wait about 30 minutes before checking the fluid level after extended driving at high speeds in hot weather,
driving in heavy traffic or with a trailer.
Anyway, I believe the above is correct. I'll keep checking & may add a bit more over the next couple of weeks.
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