Hiroshi12

iTrader: (1)

We all know that lowering your vehicle (whichever method we choose) is going to change the geometry of the suspension which will also have an effect on alignment, right?

I've noticed that there are multiple threads in the forum which go into infinite detail about stance and wheel fitment but very little about how these modifications affect vehicle alignment. Maybe that is because some of us are choosing style over performance/comfort? I am also aware of the Lexus "purists" on this site who may argue that no matter what you do to correct the alignment after lowering the car, it will never be like it was from the factory. Point taken.

For my own experience I can say that the LS-400 (being a large, heavy, luxury sedan) definitely benefits (style-wise) with a moderate drop - mine is about 2", but suffers a bit on the ride quality even when using quality parts and proven methods. My recent install of the rear toe/camber arms and an alignment have finally found the "happy medium" between style/comfort/performance but the car is never gonna ride on air like it does out of the factory and I'm ok with that.

This is a very individual choice when it comes to making these mods and it seems like there are a few common schools of thought here: "Lexus engineering is perfect so leave it alone", "put the car on the ground with huge wheels and lots of neg. camber and damn the alignment" and "get it a little lower while trying to maintain some comfort and driveability".
What do you guys think?

My setup: Megan Street series coilovers, Megan rear toe and camber arms, f/r poly sway bar bushings, OEM spec 16" wheels/tires.

Hiroshi12

iTrader: (1)

Quick shot of my rear setup.

Greg5OH

you southern guys, that this is SO CLEAN underneath! jelous as hell. Im covered in a thick layer of grime anytime i touch anything on my cars. If you dont undercoat, you end up with big pile of rust. You undercoat-you end up witha big pile of sludge. '

What are your alignment specs? I got battle version camber and toe arms in teh rear, -3camber front -4 rear, +.1 degree toe in rear + .15 deg toe in front. at ride height. sometimes i roll dumped and then im-7 or so rear -5.5 front camber.


Rear has no wear issues at all, but my front..i dont get it. new upper and lower BJs, had alignmed checked 3 times, new strut rod bushings, everythign feels solid, yet it always chewes the front tires in a funny way. Heel and toe wear, not typical too much toe in wear. Havent figured it out yet. and IT IS NOT because its lowered and you will never get it to wear properly. I simply refuse to believe that, simply because this is not normal camber wear. Lots of my buddies have agressive fitment camber and stretch and their wear is fine. Has to be some soft bushing or sumthign somewhere that is deflecting.

PS post a pic of the whole car!

As for my ride quality, its nice and tight. Can do switchbacks at highspeed with no floatyness, very minimal body roll on tight corners. I need some electronically adjustable stepper motors for my struts as they are wayyy too stiff for in town. Shoots the car up in the air over some bumps. Set for hi speed damping.

Hiroshi12

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for your input. To be honest I don't know my specs - I just take it to the shop and tell them to align it. Maybe that's where I'm going wrong, though I don't think so. This shop builds race cars so they know not to attempt to align a lowered car to factory specs - though without any input from me what specs did they use? Hmmm? Ride is straight and true though.

You're right - we are spoiled out here with the weather. That shot looks so clean cause I just powerwashed the undercarriage after a week of rain. My neighbors must think I am nuts when they see me under the car on jackstands with my hose. Oh well.

Hiroshi12

iTrader: (1)

Here ya go. How about yours?

Greg5OH

the black wheels are nice. Perhaps a spacer in the rear? Im not a fan of the reverse rake, always prefer the back to sit up a lil higher than the front. Bet it rides pretty smooth with a good sized sidewall tires like the one you have. Stretched tires on 19s..you feel the pebbles..



and yes, i knwo i have reverse rake whiel laid out lol. But i always bump the rear than the front while cruising.

Hiroshi12

iTrader: (1)

Beautiful car, but you can't drive it like this can you?

Greg5OH

you could, verrrry slowly. IM usually up a few inches, less than a finger gaps worth between tire and fender on freeway, in town im about 2 finger gap. Too damn bumpy out here to roll super low.

Shmee

iTrader: (3)

^^^^^ that's probably where your wear issues are coming from.
You are aligned at one height, even an inch deviation up or down alters the alignment and can cause excess wear.... Especially if your change in height from aligned spec happens when you are on the highway, you will really notice that wear faster than normal.

You can align to stock spec when slammed, it might take extra parts and money, but it can be done.
But any alignment is a static adjustment, not a dynamic one. The car at the stock height and alignment is design to maintain a relatively tight deviation to spec under normal driving conditions. When slammed, you have no idea how much or little that deviations is. As an example, the toe change that happens under cornering may be 0.01° per ½" of travel; when slammed that could change to something like 0.1-1° for the same amount of travel based on the geometry. *** that's just an simified example for the sake of discussion *** and this is where the "purists" arguementt comes in.

Greg5OH

no i align it to ride height for the highway where the car spends 90% of its time. I measure all corners with a tape measure, get it on the rack, reconfirm the measurement, and measure again, everytime, just before getting on the freeway. I had to be sure its not the height difference which throws toe way off. I do about 900 miles a month in it.

PureDrifter

iTrader: (10)

this thread is useless without specs.

Shmee

iTrader: (3)

Shmee

iTrader: (3)

Please post your alignment sheets.


It's that other 10% that could be the difference.... thats the point.
You are also on a pressure based air system, correct? You could be seeing ride height differences there as well.

Point is, you don't know where your problem is coming from and if you are driving around at height not what you aligned it to, that will cause wear. If you aligned it to a lower height for the highway but drive around town at a higher height, you are likely going into a toe-out situation which would be murder on tires at more casual speeds and extreme steering angles.

Do you find it kind of "darty" when driving at your city height?
Do you notice a lot of scrub in lower speed parking lot driving when making 90º turns?

Next time you have it on the rack at your "highway height" and it's all aligned in, kick it up to your city height and see what your specs go to. I bet it's out enough that even with only 10% of your time spent at that height, thats probably where you are having your issues.

timmy0tool

iTrader: (7)

to the OP, i like to ride slammed (lower than your picture) AND still have decent alignment. there is definitely a happy medium as it all depends on the adjustment capability and alignment. to get my wheels to fit i had to maximize the cam bolts to get maximum negative camber yet still have good toe settings to minimize tire wear.

our cars have lots of factory adjustability so most of the time you can correct the geometry with no problems. i find that if you are too low the rear toe cam bolt can only go so far to correct. that's where an adjustable toe rod is beneficial.

now if you want to go all out demon-camber the car, that's a whole different story!

cgawelko

I want that ride height and setup...... thats exactly how I want mine to sit. What was your total cost for your setup?