Size matters! - let's put a BIG oil filter on our LS!
08-25-15, 11:47 AM
#211
Yeah, those are just random photo representations I grabbed from a Google images search.
While the root-cause of such issue can have other sources, extended OCI can also produce similar results. I simply used these as examples of when running excessive OCI's can lead to, even if your oil analysis says the oil is still good.
While the root-cause of such issue can have other sources, extended OCI can also produce similar results. I simply used these as examples of when running excessive OCI's can lead to, even if your oil analysis says the oil is still good.
08-25-15, 01:48 PM
#213
Oil Analysis shows me I am not having any sludge issues. 25k on dino oil and you have a junk engine. I ran Castrol Edge with Titanium (gold bottle) for 11k and Amsoil for 30k before that and 25k after and oil analysis shows the Amsoil holds up better than Castrol did at 2x the miles.
I am at 244k miles now. Wear metals are VERY VERY low.
I wouldn't go over 25k without oil analysis giving me confidence I can. At this point, 25k seems to be the safe limit for my engine. 30k is the outer limits.
I am at 244k miles now. Wear metals are VERY VERY low.
I wouldn't go over 25k without oil analysis giving me confidence I can. At this point, 25k seems to be the safe limit for my engine. 30k is the outer limits.
Why are you pushing 25k miles to a oil change?
That is a great way of getting sludge and carbon buildup inside the engine. Up here, I got the displeasure of working on a number of high end german cars who were all running the original 25,000KM factory specified OCI and almost without fault all of the cars with over 100-125k KM had major sludge and carbon issues that ranged from this:
to this:
While this is what you want your valve train to look like:
Extended OCI's are a great marketing tool to sell people new cars, and an even better scam to nail those that buy used cars out of warranty with expensive repair bills. While an oil analysis might suggest the oil is in GREAT shape as far as the properties go, some neglect the solid-particle contamination.... which is what the filter is for. Sure, a huge capacity filter will store more crap, but would you fit a diaper to a baby with a huge ****/poo reservoir just to save yourself from changing diapers more?
I'd really like to see your oil analysis data as I cannot imagine many oils, even the ones that cost $30/L, being able to handle 40k kms of driving without significant brake down.... Let alone the free standing contamination held in the oil.. I'd also love to see pics of the oil coming out, a shot down your valve cover filler hole and one of your filters cut open. I would be amazed if the inside of your engine didn't look something similar to the first picture I posted
That is a great way of getting sludge and carbon buildup inside the engine. Up here, I got the displeasure of working on a number of high end german cars who were all running the original 25,000KM factory specified OCI and almost without fault all of the cars with over 100-125k KM had major sludge and carbon issues that ranged from this:
to this:
While this is what you want your valve train to look like:
Extended OCI's are a great marketing tool to sell people new cars, and an even better scam to nail those that buy used cars out of warranty with expensive repair bills. While an oil analysis might suggest the oil is in GREAT shape as far as the properties go, some neglect the solid-particle contamination.... which is what the filter is for. Sure, a huge capacity filter will store more crap, but would you fit a diaper to a baby with a huge ****/poo reservoir just to save yourself from changing diapers more?
I'd really like to see your oil analysis data as I cannot imagine many oils, even the ones that cost $30/L, being able to handle 40k kms of driving without significant brake down.... Let alone the free standing contamination held in the oil.. I'd also love to see pics of the oil coming out, a shot down your valve cover filler hole and one of your filters cut open. I would be amazed if the inside of your engine didn't look something similar to the first picture I posted
08-25-15, 03:55 PM
#214
From my experience, most cars manufactured before around 2002, not originally spec'ed to run Synthetic oil, tend to do best with a 5000-7500KM OCI, call it 3500-5000miles with standard oils. this gives you the chance to drop the oil and drain away the contamination and keep your engine looking like that last picture I posted. I personally run Castrol GTX 5w-30 oil and Mann ML1003 filters and change them every 5000km. Although after finding the thread linked below, I think I'll be switching to the Napa Gold Filters. I have yet to do an oil analysis but considering the oil is still clean when I drop the pan, I am fairly sure of the oil being in good shape. I also only put on 12-15k km/year.
Oil Analysis shows me I am not having any sludge issues. 25k on dino oil and you have a junk engine. I ran Castrol Edge with Titanium (gold bottle) for 11k and Amsoil for 30k before that and 25k after and oil analysis shows the Amsoil holds up better than Castrol did at 2x the miles.
I am at 244k miles now. Wear metals are VERY VERY low.
I wouldn't go over 25k without oil analysis giving me confidence I can. At this point, 25k seems to be the safe limit for my engine. 30k is the outer limits.
I am at 244k miles now. Wear metals are VERY VERY low.
I wouldn't go over 25k without oil analysis giving me confidence I can. At this point, 25k seems to be the safe limit for my engine. 30k is the outer limits.
Have you looked down the filler neck on the valve covers or had them or the pan off?
I'd be really curious to see what your engine looks like on the inside with such an intense OCI length.
Have you seen this thread yet?
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/...tition.123608/
08-25-15, 04:38 PM
#215
I can look with the camera, but I haven't ever seen anything other than shiny metal in there.
Here is my thread I am posting the results:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Ca#Post3385122
I won't run paper elements long, no way on that. Maybe 12k, but 25k, no. Even Amsoil when they had the SD filters required 12k filter changes to go 25k on the oil. I think the SD filters were better at finer filtration than the Eao filters they use now, but I can't prove anything, can't find the filters anymore.
When I was in the Army they NEVER changed oil on most of the trucks based on time, only on oil analysis. I think I changed the engine oil once on many vehicles that I had (M35's to M931's), oil analysis never showed anything that needed changing, and they used lowest bidder 15W40 dino oil. Even in the winters in Germany we used 15W40. Can't say we didn't use a LOT of ether to start them though!
Here is my thread I am posting the results:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Ca#Post3385122
I won't run paper elements long, no way on that. Maybe 12k, but 25k, no. Even Amsoil when they had the SD filters required 12k filter changes to go 25k on the oil. I think the SD filters were better at finer filtration than the Eao filters they use now, but I can't prove anything, can't find the filters anymore.
When I was in the Army they NEVER changed oil on most of the trucks based on time, only on oil analysis. I think I changed the engine oil once on many vehicles that I had (M35's to M931's), oil analysis never showed anything that needed changing, and they used lowest bidder 15W40 dino oil. Even in the winters in Germany we used 15W40. Can't say we didn't use a LOT of ether to start them though!
Well Tim, thats a loaded question... I'm a firm believer that regular and routine maintenance will save you thousands of dollars over waiting for problems to arise. Plus regular OCI's give you, or a shop, the chance to give the car a once over and keep tabs on potential problems before they become costly failures.
From my experience, most cars manufactured before around 2002, not originally spec'ed to run Synthetic oil, tend to do best with a 5000-7500KM OCI, call it 3500-5000miles with standard oils. this gives you the chance to drop the oil and drain away the contamination and keep your engine looking like that last picture I posted. I personally run Castrol GTX 5w-30 oil and Mann ML1003 filters and change them every 5000km. Although after finding the thread linked below, I think I'll be switching to the Napa Gold Filters. I have yet to do an oil analysis but considering the oil is still clean when I drop the pan, I am fairly sure of the oil being in good shape. I also only put on 12-15k km/year.
Can you post any of the analysis sheets?
Have you looked down the filler neck on the valve covers or had them or the pan off?
I'd be really curious to see what your engine looks like on the inside with such an intense OCI length.
Have you seen this thread yet?
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/...tition.123608/
From my experience, most cars manufactured before around 2002, not originally spec'ed to run Synthetic oil, tend to do best with a 5000-7500KM OCI, call it 3500-5000miles with standard oils. this gives you the chance to drop the oil and drain away the contamination and keep your engine looking like that last picture I posted. I personally run Castrol GTX 5w-30 oil and Mann ML1003 filters and change them every 5000km. Although after finding the thread linked below, I think I'll be switching to the Napa Gold Filters. I have yet to do an oil analysis but considering the oil is still clean when I drop the pan, I am fairly sure of the oil being in good shape. I also only put on 12-15k km/year.
Can you post any of the analysis sheets?
Have you looked down the filler neck on the valve covers or had them or the pan off?
I'd be really curious to see what your engine looks like on the inside with such an intense OCI length.
Have you seen this thread yet?
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/...tition.123608/
08-25-15, 06:25 PM
#216
Have you seen this thread yet?
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/...tition.123608/
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/...tition.123608/
08-25-15, 06:49 PM
#217
Before I went to Amsoil and going long drains I was using Toy filter and whatever synthetic I found on sale and run it for 10k and changed. Just for me that was just changing oil in the winter and I tend to really hate that here....
08-25-15, 09:06 PM
#218
There is more to the quality of the filter than just how it's built...
The Stock Denso didn't fare that well in this test: http://www.evolutionm.net/forums/evo...63t-4b11t.html
On a related note, not directed at anyone....
One thing I see from all of these tests is that they are static and only really look at performance in one dimension. it would be really interesting to see how these filters did in a more accurate pressurized test. There is a lot of conjecture about how and when the pressure relief valve operate. If I had time and the incentive, I would happily build a test bench for the sake of testing filtration at the working pressures to actually check the real-world filtering quality of these filters and put the argument to bed.
I still say, filter size is only important if you are running an OCI well beyond normal like RamAirRckt. For normal OCI's the standard filter size is fine.
08-26-15, 10:02 AM
#220
It is wasteful for sure to go only 5k on synthetic, or even dino oil today. With dino oil, if no consistent excessive conditions (high speeds (80+ all day long), very dirty, very very hot ambient temps, lots of short trips, towing, etc) 7500 on dino oil is good.
I would honestly go by what Lexus has for 2015 as a good rule of thumb. The engines are still engines, the oil is waaay better today than 10 years ago or more. Dino oil can go 7500 easily, synthetic 10k-12k should be very acceptable (my data showed the Castrol at 11k probably was safe to 13k).
I did eons ago change my oil WEEKLY (20W50 Mobil oil, Dino) and when I did pull my engine apart, the cleanliness was MIND BOGGLING. It was nothing like a "clean" engine that people have on the internet. The metal had taken on a might lighter color than it had before I had changed it so often. I worked at a shop and they didn't care if I did. I had a very bad main seal leak and used oil pretty fast (it would pour out if I put the car on ramps!). Instead of adding I just changed it....
I would honestly go by what Lexus has for 2015 as a good rule of thumb. The engines are still engines, the oil is waaay better today than 10 years ago or more. Dino oil can go 7500 easily, synthetic 10k-12k should be very acceptable (my data showed the Castrol at 11k probably was safe to 13k).
I did eons ago change my oil WEEKLY (20W50 Mobil oil, Dino) and when I did pull my engine apart, the cleanliness was MIND BOGGLING. It was nothing like a "clean" engine that people have on the internet. The metal had taken on a might lighter color than it had before I had changed it so often. I worked at a shop and they didn't care if I did. I had a very bad main seal leak and used oil pretty fast (it would pour out if I put the car on ramps!). Instead of adding I just changed it....
08-26-15, 10:44 AM
#221
ive seen what 7500 on dino oil can do..in fact shmee just posted just some of the engines that went that long on dino oil...so to generalize that is bad advice. driving conditions and habits come into play..start stop..in traffic or all highway miles.
08-26-15, 02:59 PM
#222
I would say the most important thing to consider when selecting the length of OCI, is the condition of the engine and how it runs. A fresh engine in city and highway conditions is very much different from a well maintained engine at 250,000miles or a poorly maintained engine at 60,000miles.
Also the pictures I posted are also all cars with 50,000+miles on them and are not the result of one extended OCI unless that OCI lasted for 50,000 miles!
Also the pictures I posted are also all cars with 50,000+miles on them and are not the result of one extended OCI unless that OCI lasted for 50,000 miles!
08-26-15, 07:48 PM
#223
09-16-15, 09:14 PM
#224
Intermediate
Wix 51515 = PL30001 = FL1A = PH8A = Big can, long filter Roughly 4in can 6in length
Wix 51516 = PL20195 = FL400A = Small Can Long Filter
Wix 51348 = PL10241 = Small Can Short Filter
I run an Amsoil EAO26 which is roughly a 4in diameter can with a 7 1/8" length.
For me, I run the biggest filter for 2 reasons, 1, I drive 25000 miles (40200 km) on one oil change. I NEED capacity. 2. I drive in very cold climate in the winter, -20F isn't unheard of, -10F is normally the average coldest temps, when I am doing a cold start I don't want any risk of thick cold oil tearing an oil filter element as well as lowest filter pressure drop I can get.
Down in Sydney, it likely never gets cold, and a taxi even less chance it gets that much off time where it is getting cold. So not too surprised they can go pretty decent km's on dino oil and stock filter. But they are changing the oil a lot compared to what I do too.
Wix 51516 = PL20195 = FL400A = Small Can Long Filter
Wix 51348 = PL10241 = Small Can Short Filter
I run an Amsoil EAO26 which is roughly a 4in diameter can with a 7 1/8" length.
For me, I run the biggest filter for 2 reasons, 1, I drive 25000 miles (40200 km) on one oil change. I NEED capacity. 2. I drive in very cold climate in the winter, -20F isn't unheard of, -10F is normally the average coldest temps, when I am doing a cold start I don't want any risk of thick cold oil tearing an oil filter element as well as lowest filter pressure drop I can get.
Down in Sydney, it likely never gets cold, and a taxi even less chance it gets that much off time where it is getting cold. So not too surprised they can go pretty decent km's on dino oil and stock filter. But they are changing the oil a lot compared to what I do too.
09-16-15, 09:22 PM
#225
I did try to take some photos through the oil filler hole, but I can't get enough light in for the camera. I can see it, but the camera sees the shiny sides and focus there. Ill figure out something with my Canon EOS 1D Mark II. It should be able to do it nicely....
What I can see, is no sludge at all. It shines back at me, but of course, there is oil on it, but nothing blocking the shine.
What I can see, is no sludge at all. It shines back at me, but of course, there is oil on it, but nothing blocking the shine.
Last edited by RamAirRckt; 09-16-15 at 09:32 PM.