Size matters! - let's put a BIG oil filter on our LS!
08-15-15, 08:17 AM
#196
I love reading threads like these... It's always entertaining to read arm-chair-cowboys and pseudo-engineers cite Internet forum posts on other sites, non-parrallel comparisons and hearsay as legitimate facts.
The size of the filter has ZERO impact on its ability to remove particulates, just the capacity of particulate it can store. They QUALITY of the filter is the important factor when selecting a filter to put on your car.
Buying a big honking filter =\= better, just like running synthetic =\= better than conventional oil just because it's synthetic.
If you are doing regular oil change intervals, your engine is clean internally, and the rest of your maintenance is well documented, then the concern of getting crap in your filter should be that of contracting polio in a completely vaccinated community. If you have never had the valve covers off or pulled the oil pan and have no idea what you are doing and bought a car without checking it out from somebody who didn't have reciepts... Then a big filter might give you some piece of mind but the size of the filter is not going to save your engine.
Change your oil and filter every 3500miles, and you'll likely be fine assuming you aren't buying crap.
The size of the filter has ZERO impact on its ability to remove particulates, just the capacity of particulate it can store. They QUALITY of the filter is the important factor when selecting a filter to put on your car.
Buying a big honking filter =\= better, just like running synthetic =\= better than conventional oil just because it's synthetic.
If you are doing regular oil change intervals, your engine is clean internally, and the rest of your maintenance is well documented, then the concern of getting crap in your filter should be that of contracting polio in a completely vaccinated community. If you have never had the valve covers off or pulled the oil pan and have no idea what you are doing and bought a car without checking it out from somebody who didn't have reciepts... Then a big filter might give you some piece of mind but the size of the filter is not going to save your engine.
Change your oil and filter every 3500miles, and you'll likely be fine assuming you aren't buying crap.
08-15-15, 07:05 PM
#197
If you change oil ever 3500 miles like you suggest, running nearly any filter and the dirt cheapest oil you can will be just fine.
But if I changed my oil every 3500 miles I would be changing it every 4-5 weeks! And dumping 60 quarts of oil and a 10 used oil filters every year. No bloody way. I run the largest filter I can (more oil CAPACITY, more filter CAPACITY, less filter pressure drop) and oil that high enough specification that can run 25k miles. I do oil analysis to prove the oil is sufficient to last 25k miles.
Yes, I work in engineering, have for 19 years, electrical and mechanical. I don't armchair anything, I research it and use as much data as I can to prove my theories as best I can. Yes, some things are hard to prove empirically, such as filter pressure drop or when the bypass inside the filter is triggered. Some cars have in block bypass valves (Such as Oldsmobile, which bypassed at 4 psi on a gas and 8 psi on a diesel). Sometimes given a change I mod it to not be allowed to bypass.
The filter has a capacity to filter xx size particles for yy time at zz flow rate with a certain pressure drop across the element. I strive for a very large capacity filter, aka that holds more oil, has a larger element to ensure that under all conditions the filter won't go into bypass when cold or under high engine rpm (high oil flow), especially in the dead of winter we have here.
If there is a bigger filter, there is no reason NOT to run it. The cost is almost always the same for a small filter like a Wix 51348, 51515 or a 51516. The only "negative" is adding a 1/2 to 1 quart more oil. And high oil capacity lowers the ppm of any wear contaminants such as soot or dirt or acids in the oil.
When you look at a crankcase that only holds 5 quarts with filter, adding a larger oil filter that can hold an additional quart, bringing it up to 6 quarts adds roughly 20% more oil. In my case in my GS400, I have 7 quarts now and a history of oil changes over the last 75k miles showing how well the oil holds up.
Sure you can do too short drain intervals, it is costly even on cheap dino oil and down time, or you can use a high enough spec oil that can handle the long oil drains and save money and reduce oil that has to be disposed of.
But if I changed my oil every 3500 miles I would be changing it every 4-5 weeks! And dumping 60 quarts of oil and a 10 used oil filters every year. No bloody way. I run the largest filter I can (more oil CAPACITY, more filter CAPACITY, less filter pressure drop) and oil that high enough specification that can run 25k miles. I do oil analysis to prove the oil is sufficient to last 25k miles.
Yes, I work in engineering, have for 19 years, electrical and mechanical. I don't armchair anything, I research it and use as much data as I can to prove my theories as best I can. Yes, some things are hard to prove empirically, such as filter pressure drop or when the bypass inside the filter is triggered. Some cars have in block bypass valves (Such as Oldsmobile, which bypassed at 4 psi on a gas and 8 psi on a diesel). Sometimes given a change I mod it to not be allowed to bypass.
The filter has a capacity to filter xx size particles for yy time at zz flow rate with a certain pressure drop across the element. I strive for a very large capacity filter, aka that holds more oil, has a larger element to ensure that under all conditions the filter won't go into bypass when cold or under high engine rpm (high oil flow), especially in the dead of winter we have here.
If there is a bigger filter, there is no reason NOT to run it. The cost is almost always the same for a small filter like a Wix 51348, 51515 or a 51516. The only "negative" is adding a 1/2 to 1 quart more oil. And high oil capacity lowers the ppm of any wear contaminants such as soot or dirt or acids in the oil.
When you look at a crankcase that only holds 5 quarts with filter, adding a larger oil filter that can hold an additional quart, bringing it up to 6 quarts adds roughly 20% more oil. In my case in my GS400, I have 7 quarts now and a history of oil changes over the last 75k miles showing how well the oil holds up.
Sure you can do too short drain intervals, it is costly even on cheap dino oil and down time, or you can use a high enough spec oil that can handle the long oil drains and save money and reduce oil that has to be disposed of.
I love reading threads like these... It's always entertaining to read arm-chair-cowboys and pseudo-engineers cite Internet forum posts on other sites, non-parrallel comparisons and hearsay as legitimate facts.
The size of the filter has ZERO impact on its ability to remove particulates, just the capacity of particulate it can store. They QUALITY of the filter is the important factor when selecting a filter to put on your car.
Buying a big honking filter =\= better, just like running synthetic =\= better than conventional oil just because it's synthetic.
If you are doing regular oil change intervals, your engine is clean internally, and the rest of your maintenance is well documented, then the concern of getting crap in your filter should be that of contracting polio in a completely vaccinated community. If you have never had the valve covers off or pulled the oil pan and have no idea what you are doing and bought a car without checking it out from somebody who didn't have reciepts... Then a big filter might give you some piece of mind but the size of the filter is not going to save your engine.
Change your oil and filter every 3500miles, and you'll likely be fine assuming you aren't buying crap.
The size of the filter has ZERO impact on its ability to remove particulates, just the capacity of particulate it can store. They QUALITY of the filter is the important factor when selecting a filter to put on your car.
Buying a big honking filter =\= better, just like running synthetic =\= better than conventional oil just because it's synthetic.
If you are doing regular oil change intervals, your engine is clean internally, and the rest of your maintenance is well documented, then the concern of getting crap in your filter should be that of contracting polio in a completely vaccinated community. If you have never had the valve covers off or pulled the oil pan and have no idea what you are doing and bought a car without checking it out from somebody who didn't have reciepts... Then a big filter might give you some piece of mind but the size of the filter is not going to save your engine.
Change your oil and filter every 3500miles, and you'll likely be fine assuming you aren't buying crap.
08-15-15, 08:18 PM
#198
Whether or not anyone agrees or not, the car companies (Toyota) USED to run the large Wix 51515 filters on most of the cars they offered. In the 90's filters got smaller, 1, it saves car companies money by putting 1/2 to 3/4 quart less oil in each car. 2. People are already brainwashed to do 3000 mile oil changes, so having a large filter isn't necessary. Back in the 70's oil changes were rated at 7500 miles and filter change ever OTHER oil change, yes, every 15000 miles. But at a couple bucks a filter, they got changed every time by most people. .
So going a small filter isn't a big deal to the car company, the bean counters figured out it saves money and gives some better profitability. But to me, it is important. So I run large filter, large as I can.
So going a small filter isn't a big deal to the car company, the bean counters figured out it saves money and gives some better profitability. But to me, it is important. So I run large filter, large as I can.
08-15-15, 10:07 PM
#199
1515 doesnt have the same dimensions on the gasket as a 1348..has a higher micron rating,and no they didnt change oil every 7500 miles in the 70's. everyone used 10w-40,yes thats 10 "w" w means winter not weight and ur oil doesnt get filtered at highways speeds so the statement about ur filter wont bypass during high rpms isnt exactly true.
08-16-15, 11:59 AM
#201
The 51515/51516/51348 and 51068 all have essentially the same gasket mount.
51068: 2.834 (72)* 2.462 (63)* 0.200 (5)* (large can)
51515: 2.834 (72)* 2.462 (63)* 0.2 (5)* (large can)
51516: 2.734 (69)* 2.430 (62)* 0.226 (6)* (small can)
51348: 2.734 (69)* 2.430 (62)* 0.226 (6) (small can)
They all seal on any std 3/4"-16 threaded mount. If your car leaks with any of those there are serious issues.
I won't bore anyone with all the list of filters I have for 3/4"-16 mount. Gosh there is a lot. Mainly NOT car applications, typcally specific bypass valve psi changes.
Note that only Wix lists a different micron rating for the 51348. No one else does. I have confirmed with Amsoil all filters use the same media. No one else lists filration beta ratios, but IIRC Purolator will give them if asked, but IIRC the PL30001 (51515 size) is the same as the 51348 size.
51068: 2.834 (72)* 2.462 (63)* 0.200 (5)* (large can)
51515: 2.834 (72)* 2.462 (63)* 0.2 (5)* (large can)
51516: 2.734 (69)* 2.430 (62)* 0.226 (6)* (small can)
51348: 2.734 (69)* 2.430 (62)* 0.226 (6) (small can)
They all seal on any std 3/4"-16 threaded mount. If your car leaks with any of those there are serious issues.
I won't bore anyone with all the list of filters I have for 3/4"-16 mount. Gosh there is a lot. Mainly NOT car applications, typcally specific bypass valve psi changes.
Note that only Wix lists a different micron rating for the 51348. No one else does. I have confirmed with Amsoil all filters use the same media. No one else lists filration beta ratios, but IIRC Purolator will give them if asked, but IIRC the PL30001 (51515 size) is the same as the 51348 size.
i see u know ur stuff
08-16-15, 03:10 PM
#203
08-17-15, 05:42 AM
#205
You want a PL30001 for a PureOne. Remember too many users have seen the PureOne element tear when they cut the can open to inspect. I have reservations using one for that reason. I used one recently and will cut mine apart to inspect it soon.
08-17-15, 07:15 AM
#206
http://www.evolutionm.net/forums/evo...63t-4b11t.html
if u run eoc intervals u better not run crappy filters
btw donaldson makes some of the amsoil filters...u come to ur own conclusion..ill stick with napa's platinum filters when above 5k intervals..otherwise the gold will suffice
if u run eoc intervals u better not run crappy filters
btw donaldson makes some of the amsoil filters...u come to ur own conclusion..ill stick with napa's platinum filters when above 5k intervals..otherwise the gold will suffice
Last edited by python; 08-18-15 at 05:06 AM.
08-24-15, 04:07 AM
#207
Intermediate
1UZ filter
I was told by someone on this forum that the bigger PureOne 1UZ filter is a PL20195....
So is a PL30001 bigger/different ?.... Now I'm confused...
.. I recently drove taxi's for a while in Sydney and the 4 litre 6 cylinder Ford Falcon engines easily do 1,000,000+ yes 1 million km's ... occasionally you hear of 1.5 million. All cabs change oil once a month (about 12,000km) and never use expensive oil. Standard mineral or occasionally semi-syn and the cheapest filters they can find. Even though I use 100% syn and PureOne filters (only because it helps me sleep at night).. some can say quiet honestly its all BS... I mean you cant argue with the facts and they speak for themselves.
Last edited by fastegg; 08-24-15 at 04:20 AM. Reason: Added more
08-24-15, 06:21 AM
#208
Wix 51515 = PL30001 = FL1A = PH8A = Big can, long filter Roughly 4in can 6in length
Wix 51516 = PL20195 = FL400A = Small Can Long Filter
Wix 51348 = PL10241 = Small Can Short Filter
I run an Amsoil EAO26 which is roughly a 4in diameter can with a 7 1/8" length.
For me, I run the biggest filter for 2 reasons, 1, I drive 25000 miles (40200 km) on one oil change. I NEED capacity. 2. I drive in very cold climate in the winter, -20F isn't unheard of, -10F is normally the average coldest temps, when I am doing a cold start I don't want any risk of thick cold oil tearing an oil filter element as well as lowest filter pressure drop I can get.
Down in Sydney, it likely never gets cold, and a taxi even less chance it gets that much off time where it is getting cold. So not too surprised they can go pretty decent km's on dino oil and stock filter. But they are changing the oil a lot compared to what I do too.
I was told by someone on this forum that the bigger PureOne 1UZ filter is a PL20195....
So is a PL30001 bigger/different ?.... Now I'm confused...
.. I recently drove taxi's for a while in Sydney and the 4 litre 6 cylinder Ford Falcon engines easily do 1,000,000+ yes 1 million km's ... occasionally you hear of 1.5 million. All cabs change oil once a month (about 12,000km) and never use expensive oil. Standard mineral or occasionally semi-syn and the cheapest filters they can find. Even though I use 100% syn and PureOne filters (only because it helps me sleep at night).. some can say quiet honestly its all BS... I mean you cant argue with the facts and they speak for themselves.
Wix 51516 = PL20195 = FL400A = Small Can Long Filter
Wix 51348 = PL10241 = Small Can Short Filter
I run an Amsoil EAO26 which is roughly a 4in diameter can with a 7 1/8" length.
For me, I run the biggest filter for 2 reasons, 1, I drive 25000 miles (40200 km) on one oil change. I NEED capacity. 2. I drive in very cold climate in the winter, -20F isn't unheard of, -10F is normally the average coldest temps, when I am doing a cold start I don't want any risk of thick cold oil tearing an oil filter element as well as lowest filter pressure drop I can get.
Down in Sydney, it likely never gets cold, and a taxi even less chance it gets that much off time where it is getting cold. So not too surprised they can go pretty decent km's on dino oil and stock filter. But they are changing the oil a lot compared to what I do too.
I was told by someone on this forum that the bigger PureOne 1UZ filter is a PL20195....
So is a PL30001 bigger/different ?.... Now I'm confused...
.. I recently drove taxi's for a while in Sydney and the 4 litre 6 cylinder Ford Falcon engines easily do 1,000,000+ yes 1 million km's ... occasionally you hear of 1.5 million. All cabs change oil once a month (about 12,000km) and never use expensive oil. Standard mineral or occasionally semi-syn and the cheapest filters they can find. Even though I use 100% syn and PureOne filters (only because it helps me sleep at night).. some can say quiet honestly its all BS... I mean you cant argue with the facts and they speak for themselves.
08-24-15, 02:08 PM
#209
Why are you pushing 25k miles to a oil change?
That is a great way of getting sludge and carbon buildup inside the engine. Up here, I got the displeasure of working on a number of high end german cars who were all running the original 25,000KM factory specified OCI and almost without fault all of the cars with over 100-125k KM had major sludge and carbon issues that ranged from this:
to this:
While this is what you want your valve train to look like:
Extended OCI's are a great marketing tool to sell people new cars, and an even better scam to nail those that buy used cars out of warranty with expensive repair bills. While an oil analysis might suggest the oil is in GREAT shape as far as the properties go, some neglect the solid-particle contamination.... which is what the filter is for. Sure, a huge capacity filter will store more crap, but would you fit a diaper to a baby with a huge ****/poo reservoir just to save yourself from changing diapers more?
I'd really like to see your oil analysis data as I cannot imagine many oils, even the ones that cost $30/L, being able to handle 40k kms of driving without significant brake down.... Let alone the free standing contamination held in the oil.. I'd also love to see pics of the oil coming out, a shot down your valve cover filler hole and one of your filters cut open. I would be amazed if the inside of your engine didn't look something similar to the first picture I posted
That is a great way of getting sludge and carbon buildup inside the engine. Up here, I got the displeasure of working on a number of high end german cars who were all running the original 25,000KM factory specified OCI and almost without fault all of the cars with over 100-125k KM had major sludge and carbon issues that ranged from this:
to this:
While this is what you want your valve train to look like:
Extended OCI's are a great marketing tool to sell people new cars, and an even better scam to nail those that buy used cars out of warranty with expensive repair bills. While an oil analysis might suggest the oil is in GREAT shape as far as the properties go, some neglect the solid-particle contamination.... which is what the filter is for. Sure, a huge capacity filter will store more crap, but would you fit a diaper to a baby with a huge ****/poo reservoir just to save yourself from changing diapers more?
I'd really like to see your oil analysis data as I cannot imagine many oils, even the ones that cost $30/L, being able to handle 40k kms of driving without significant brake down.... Let alone the free standing contamination held in the oil.. I'd also love to see pics of the oil coming out, a shot down your valve cover filler hole and one of your filters cut open. I would be amazed if the inside of your engine didn't look something similar to the first picture I posted
08-25-15, 05:55 AM
#210
2nd pic is a 3.0 toyota...most likely 97-01. the last pic is a 1.8 1zzfe from a corolla 98-02. the latter has issues with the drain holes in the pistons being too small and will eventually clog with carbon and create other issues related to oci that went too many miles. that being said toyota has screwed the pooch on many of their engines including the 2.4 03-?
