JDM replacement for tired early 97 UCF20?
10-12-12, 07:27 PM
#1
Rookie
Thread Starter
JDM replacement for tired early 97 UCF20?
I'm intrigued by the possibility of replacing my 207K engine and tranny with JDM. Love the car and the Naka audio rocks...IMHO the best production car made...will be happy with this ride forever. Motor is starting to make some noise and the tranny to shift rough...so rather than let it nickle and dime me...just do a swap? I looked around and don't see any JDM engine posts which makes me worry.
Seems like I can get a motor/tranny combo with 60K or less for around $1200...or about the same as the dealer recently quoted me to replace the spark plugs and coils! (turned out it had a wire harness issue). It seems straighforward, but I worry about the engine immobilizer/security stuff and those kind of gotchas. Anybody done it and have advice...or not done it and have advice? Where to buy and what to watch out for?
Thanks
Seems like I can get a motor/tranny combo with 60K or less for around $1200...or about the same as the dealer recently quoted me to replace the spark plugs and coils! (turned out it had a wire harness issue). It seems straighforward, but I worry about the engine immobilizer/security stuff and those kind of gotchas. Anybody done it and have advice...or not done it and have advice? Where to buy and what to watch out for?
Thanks
10-12-12, 10:33 PM
#2
find a reputable shop that can handle motor swap.
your best bet is to find motor that is same year or same generation or you will find more headache than you want.
the ecu probably won't work on engine from other years.
your best bet is to find motor that is same year or same generation or you will find more headache than you want.
the ecu probably won't work on engine from other years.
10-13-12, 04:56 AM
#4
Moderator
If they were both pre July 97 model's (before the immobilizer system was introduced) engines, there would be no security issue and your idea would managed to work but there are ditches you have to deal with.
I have heard a story that your type of replacement of an engine was done in Japan. A reversely imported LS400 had an engine problem and it was replaced by a used JDM engine of the same year. I haven't seen the actual replacement and I have no idea to inform you the detail. The only thing I can say is that your idea is not the first one and not the only one in the world.
What I heard was that it was a 96 model or earlier. The ECU was also replaced. There were some connection problems of wiring harnesses and some hoses. The connections required to see precisely both JDM and USM schematic diagrams by a person who was skilled and the ditches were dealt with. But those ditches were not easy to overcome. The swap job alone was done in a day or so, but the connections required many days to complete. Strictly to say, it was not fully completed. Some try and error was repeated and some of the minor problems were neglected but the car ran so so to pass the smog test. In Japan, CO and HC are checked strictly but NOx is not checked except at the design stage. That may be the reason why the smog test was OK although the connections were not fully completed.
I don't know the detail of the ditches and I can not support you but I have a JDM manual and may be I can give you some information in it.
I have heard a story that your type of replacement of an engine was done in Japan. A reversely imported LS400 had an engine problem and it was replaced by a used JDM engine of the same year. I haven't seen the actual replacement and I have no idea to inform you the detail. The only thing I can say is that your idea is not the first one and not the only one in the world.
What I heard was that it was a 96 model or earlier. The ECU was also replaced. There were some connection problems of wiring harnesses and some hoses. The connections required to see precisely both JDM and USM schematic diagrams by a person who was skilled and the ditches were dealt with. But those ditches were not easy to overcome. The swap job alone was done in a day or so, but the connections required many days to complete. Strictly to say, it was not fully completed. Some try and error was repeated and some of the minor problems were neglected but the car ran so so to pass the smog test. In Japan, CO and HC are checked strictly but NOx is not checked except at the design stage. That may be the reason why the smog test was OK although the connections were not fully completed.
I don't know the detail of the ditches and I can not support you but I have a JDM manual and may be I can give you some information in it.
10-13-12, 08:30 AM
#5
$1200 for a like new engine and trans? Good price, but have you looked into shipping a jdm engine and trans to virginia? Its unlikely you'll find one for sale in the states, let alone anywhere near you.
Plus it would make sense, because it sounds like you plan on keeping the car for a long time, to replace all the parts that would be due in the next 40k if you bought an engine with 60k so you wouldnt be stuck with a $1000 timing belt bill in a few years.
That $1200 engine will likely exceed $3000 when its all said and done.
nickle and diming will quickly turn into ben franklining you.
My tranny started to shift rough at 180k, and I did a drain and fill a few times with toyota t4 over a couple months. Now she shifts like butter for a grand total of about $60
Plus it would make sense, because it sounds like you plan on keeping the car for a long time, to replace all the parts that would be due in the next 40k if you bought an engine with 60k so you wouldnt be stuck with a $1000 timing belt bill in a few years.
That $1200 engine will likely exceed $3000 when its all said and done.
nickle and diming will quickly turn into ben franklining you.
My tranny started to shift rough at 180k, and I did a drain and fill a few times with toyota t4 over a couple months. Now she shifts like butter for a grand total of about $60
10-13-12, 03:01 PM
#6
If they were both pre July 97 model's (before the immobilizer system was introduced) engines, there would be no security issue and your idea would managed to work but there are ditches you have to deal with.
I have heard a story that your type of replacement of an engine was done in Japan. A reversely imported LS400 had an engine problem and it was replaced by a used JDM engine of the same year. I haven't seen the actual replacement and I have no idea to inform you the detail. The only thing I can say is that your idea is not the first one and not the only one in the world.
What I heard was that it was a 96 model or earlier. The ECU was also replaced. There were some connection problems of wiring harnesses and some hoses. The connections required to see precisely both JDM and USM schematic diagrams by a person who was skilled and the ditches were dealt with. But those ditches were not easy to overcome. The swap job alone was done in a day or so, but the connections required many days to complete. Strictly to say, it was not fully completed. Some try and error was repeated and some of the minor problems were neglected but the car ran so so to pass the smog test. In Japan, CO and HC are checked strictly but NOx is not checked except at the design stage. That may be the reason why the smog test was OK although the connections were not fully completed.
I don't know the detail of the ditches and I can not support you but I have a JDM manual and may be I can give you some information in it.
I have heard a story that your type of replacement of an engine was done in Japan. A reversely imported LS400 had an engine problem and it was replaced by a used JDM engine of the same year. I haven't seen the actual replacement and I have no idea to inform you the detail. The only thing I can say is that your idea is not the first one and not the only one in the world.
What I heard was that it was a 96 model or earlier. The ECU was also replaced. There were some connection problems of wiring harnesses and some hoses. The connections required to see precisely both JDM and USM schematic diagrams by a person who was skilled and the ditches were dealt with. But those ditches were not easy to overcome. The swap job alone was done in a day or so, but the connections required many days to complete. Strictly to say, it was not fully completed. Some try and error was repeated and some of the minor problems were neglected but the car ran so so to pass the smog test. In Japan, CO and HC are checked strictly but NOx is not checked except at the design stage. That may be the reason why the smog test was OK although the connections were not fully completed.
I don't know the detail of the ditches and I can not support you but I have a JDM manual and may be I can give you some information in it.
may be wrong about the 2nd part though.
10-15-12, 05:07 PM
#7
Rookie
Thread Starter
Thanks for the replies...rumors of problems but nobody with first-hand experience so far. Strange, no records on the site of anyone trying this. Did find an interesting post from a guy who tried to fit a 1UZFE into his 4Runner...3 years later (after powdercoating the whole motor)...he gave up. What I'm proposing is pretty simple compared to that!
My motive...the car is 15 years old and 207K miles...although the motor is a rock...I expect Alternator/PS/AC compressor/starter/MAF etc will start to die on me in the next few years. No problem fixing it as it goes but at the end of the day I still end up with a tired old engine/tranny.
Yamae...you have a JDM manual? Can you post a pic of the JDM ECM pinouts? I can compare with the US version, that would be a start in determining if a US chassis is compatible with a JDM motor.
My motive...the car is 15 years old and 207K miles...although the motor is a rock...I expect Alternator/PS/AC compressor/starter/MAF etc will start to die on me in the next few years. No problem fixing it as it goes but at the end of the day I still end up with a tired old engine/tranny.
Yamae...you have a JDM manual? Can you post a pic of the JDM ECM pinouts? I can compare with the US version, that would be a start in determining if a US chassis is compatible with a JDM motor.
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10-15-12, 05:17 PM
#8
My motive...the car is 15 years old and 207K miles...although the motor is a rock...I expect Alternator/PS/AC compressor/starter/MAF etc will start to die on me in the next few years. No problem fixing it as it goes but at the end of the day I still end up with a tired old engine/tranny.
JDM motor.
JDM motor.
10-15-12, 07:15 PM
#9
Well you can always go with a 2JZ and R154 route depending your tastes and how much you have to spend. Mind you if you look around you can get both the engine and tranny for a reasonable price.
10-15-12, 07:22 PM
#10
Moderator
Italic fonts are translations by me.
10-15-12, 08:18 PM
#11
Moderator
In Japan, we seldom drive long distance since we live in a small country which only has a size of Montana. It is not the often case to see odometers showing over than 100,000km or 62.5K miles here. I myself have driven only 2 cars out of 9 that exceeded 62.5K miles before they went to a junk yard. It would be a wise way to replace to a used JDM engine if it were done simply.
Due to the differences of regulations and traffic systems, there are variations in engines. Computer controlled engines with complicated bus systems are beyond understanding of most of average traditional mechanics these days. Engine replacements are getting more and more difficult now compared with those good old days. But those who use an oscilloscope, a logic analyzer, re-programing tools, a spectrum analyzer, computers with many AD DA converters, simulators and etc can do some. I know there are some those high-tech people doing a new type of business.
Due to the differences of regulations and traffic systems, there are variations in engines. Computer controlled engines with complicated bus systems are beyond understanding of most of average traditional mechanics these days. Engine replacements are getting more and more difficult now compared with those good old days. But those who use an oscilloscope, a logic analyzer, re-programing tools, a spectrum analyzer, computers with many AD DA converters, simulators and etc can do some. I know there are some those high-tech people doing a new type of business.
Last edited by Yamae; 10-22-12 at 10:55 PM.
10-16-12, 11:42 AM
#12
i didn't think a replacement swap would be a problem as you simply transfer the USDM harnesses and reuse the same ECU on the JDM motor. maybe this is the way i did things, coming from the honda world, so i could be wrong. we would also transfer over all smog equipment so everything is compliant. i would think the stock 1UZ is similar, whether JDM or USDM, in that all you replacing is the bare mechanical part of it.
10-16-12, 12:10 PM
#13
There are some differences with JDM LS400 engines, my 1994 had no factory fitted alarm or immobiliser on it when imported because they are not standard kit in Japan. There is also no EGR system fitted again they are not required in Japan.
The ECU will therefore be different to take these differences into account.
The ECU will therefore be different to take these differences into account.
10-16-12, 03:38 PM
#14
Moderator
i didn't think a replacement swap would be a problem as you simply transfer the USDM harnesses and reuse the same ECU on the JDM motor. maybe this is the way i did things, coming from the honda world, so i could be wrong. we would also transfer over all smog equipment so everything is compliant. i would think the stock 1UZ is similar, whether JDM or USDM, in that all you replacing is the bare mechanical part of it.
10-22-12, 08:02 PM
#15
Rookie
Thread Starter
Thanx Yamae!! I'll do a comparison soon. I would plan to use the JDM ECU and my harness...so hopefully they match. I've got 40 years mechanical and 30 years electronics experience...so I'm in good shape to handle most of the issues that come up and I have all the test equipment. I'm hoping the JDM engine comes with all the accessories. I'd imagine any EGR issues could be dealt with. I'm guessing Japan's emmisons requirements are more stringent than US but that could be a show stopper...In VA we have to get an emmisions test annualy so that is going to have to pass.