Catalytic Converter Question
09-24-12, 10:45 PM
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Catalytic Converter Question
I have a 94 ls400.
Recently i dropped off my car at the shop to do a tune up. spark plugs, wires, and fuel filter was changed. Car was running fine except for either an exhaust leak but that didn't effect the drivability of the car.
Shop got done with the tune up but told me the catalytic converters are clogged up. When i went to get the car and started the car. It had no power, shifting of the transmission was horrible. I drove the car around for a few miles, white smoke everywhere and the catalytic converter was red hot.
Whats weird is that theres no engine light and no codes.
I searched but didn't find anything really on universal catalytic converters. How do you pick one to make sure its the easiest to install? I know there will some modification to make it fit but i don't want to buy one that just makes life a living hell to install.
Is there anything i need to check for before buying a converter?
i would get an oem one for a direct fitment but i'm broke right now.
Recently i dropped off my car at the shop to do a tune up. spark plugs, wires, and fuel filter was changed. Car was running fine except for either an exhaust leak but that didn't effect the drivability of the car.
Shop got done with the tune up but told me the catalytic converters are clogged up. When i went to get the car and started the car. It had no power, shifting of the transmission was horrible. I drove the car around for a few miles, white smoke everywhere and the catalytic converter was red hot.
Whats weird is that theres no engine light and no codes.
I searched but didn't find anything really on universal catalytic converters. How do you pick one to make sure its the easiest to install? I know there will some modification to make it fit but i don't want to buy one that just makes life a living hell to install.
Is there anything i need to check for before buying a converter?
i would get an oem one for a direct fitment but i'm broke right now.
09-24-12, 10:58 PM
#2
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you can try to find those magnaflow universals ones. Pay attention to the pipe diameter though. It shouldn't be too much of a hassle to get it to fit right.
09-24-12, 11:46 PM
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What makes you think its an ignition problem? i'm not too familiar with the engine so I want to get all of my facts right before talking to the shop.
09-25-12, 12:21 AM
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09-25-12, 01:15 AM
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I agree with cowboy. Its a computer issue. I have just been through all this with my 95 LS. Have a read though this link. https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls4...ing-rough.html
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09-25-12, 02:32 AM
#8
Lexus Champion
I have just been through all this with my 95 LS.
Club Lexus member Yamae has studied this problem extensively in Japan!
ALSO - VERY IMPORTANT - replace ALL 6 capacitors, not just the leaking ones, they don't have to be leaking to be bad and causing problems, and also those that are not leaking, soon will be!
09-25-12, 03:18 AM
#9
Moderator
I found you a guy whose eyesight is as keen as an eagle.
You quickly understood my points reading my other posts regarding ECU in the past since you are quite familiar to electronics affairs. But some people need to be informed the points step by step. As I have tried to inform people how those Nichicon PF(M) capacitors have risks to leak, it was beyond their daily maintenance affairs and understandings. That is why I try not to do the short cut or the direct explanations. The step by step is sometimes better and effective for most of the people to help.
Anyway, You LScowboyLS, AussiLS400 and I are now working like as disciples of Christ to inform people how those capacitors are dangerous these days about to leak or to end the life after using more than a decade.
Anyway we can say, "Change them to new low ESR type capacitors before the ECU malfunctions as a preventive maintenance because they will die sooner or later."
09-25-12, 06:24 AM
#10
Oh yes, you are right.
I found you a guy whose eyesight is as keen as an eagle. You quickly understood my points reading my other posts regarding ECU in the past since you are quite familiar to electronics affairs. But some people need to be informed the points step by step.
As I have tried to inform people how those Nichicon PF(M) capacitors have risks to leak, it was beyond their daily maintenance affairs and understandings. That is why I try not to do the short cut or the direct explanations. The step by step is sometimes better and effective for most of the people to help.
Anyway, You LScowboyLS, AussiLS400 and I are now working like as disciples of Christ to inform people how those capacitors are dangerous these days about to leak or to end the life after using more than a decade.
Anyway we can say, "Change them to new low ESR type capacitors before the ECU malfunctions as a preventive maintenance because they will die sooner or later."
I found you a guy whose eyesight is as keen as an eagle.
You quickly understood my points reading my other posts regarding ECU in the past since you are quite familiar to electronics affairs. But some people need to be informed the points step by step. As I have tried to inform people how those Nichicon PF(M) capacitors have risks to leak, it was beyond their daily maintenance affairs and understandings. That is why I try not to do the short cut or the direct explanations. The step by step is sometimes better and effective for most of the people to help.
Anyway, You LScowboyLS, AussiLS400 and I are now working like as disciples of Christ to inform people how those capacitors are dangerous these days about to leak or to end the life after using more than a decade.
Anyway we can say, "Change them to new low ESR type capacitors before the ECU malfunctions as a preventive maintenance because they will die sooner or later."
The more you guys talk about these caps, the more i think about the times my LS has been acting strange for no reason. I think i should replace these caps.
09-25-12, 03:45 PM
#13
Lexus Champion
any weird or intermittent electrical problems, engine running problems, shifting problems or A/C compressor not engaging, airbag light flicker or even speedo/tach problems stand a good chance of being these ECM caps as the culprit - make sure you select the right type of caps, I had to go back and do this job twice because the caps I used, while high quality were not low ESR & long life type.
Rubycon, Nippon Chemicon, Panasonic, and Nichicon are the best brands in roughly that order!
yamae says cap quality is due to the purity of the local water!
Rubycon, Nippon Chemicon, Panasonic, and Nichicon are the best brands in roughly that order!
yamae says cap quality is due to the purity of the local water!
09-26-12, 03:34 AM
#14
Moderator
Most of electrolytic capacitors follow the "Arrhenius Equation". For an example, 10 degrees higher the temperature, the shorter the life about 50% in accordance with the calculation result of the Equation. This is amazingly accurate. The detail can be found here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrhenius_equation
But those Nichicon PF(M) and the family capacitors that contain the special liquid “quaternaty ammonium salt / compounds" used for LS400 and other Toyota cars in the late 80s and 90s are not only related to the "Arrhenius Equation" but also related another factor. The internal special liquid turns to very strong alkali after certain period of time and the legs are corroded. In use or not in use doesn't make any significant difference.
After certain time period, the liquid begins to leak. It is something like a time bomb. It doesn't explode but it eats copper patterns and damages parts near by. This is also conductive and the short circuits are caused too. The board also absorbs the liquid some. Once it leaks you will have a very hard time to fix. It is often the case that you can not fix because the damages are too much and not recoverable. That is why I suggest people to replace those capacitors before the leak starts.
When should we change? According to the experiments and my actual experience, roughly 100,000 hours is the border line regarding the Nichicon PF(M) capacitors.
My intention is not to blame the manufacturers. I just want that we LS400/Celsior owners are happy keeping the excellent car long. As you change rubbers after many years of use, you'd better also to change those capacitors for your better and safety ride.
09-26-12, 10:20 AM
#15
The symptoms are already explained by LScowboyLS and I write some what I know and experienced regarding the life.
Most of electrolytic capacitors follow the "Arrhenius Equation". For an example, 10 degrees higher the temperature, the shorter the life about 50% in accordance with the calculation result of the Equation. This is amazingly accurate. The detail can be found here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrhenius_equation
But those Nichicon PF(M) and the family capacitors that contain the special liquid “quaternaty ammonium salt / compounds" used for LS400 and other Toyota cars in the late 80s and 90s are not only related to the "Arrhenius Equation" but also related another factor. The internal special liquid turns to very strong alkali after certain period of time and the legs are corroded. In use or not in use doesn't make any significant difference.
After certain time period, the liquid begins to leak. It is something like a time bomb. It doesn't explode but it eats copper patterns and damages parts near by. This is also conductive and the short circuits are caused too. The board also absorbs the liquid some. Once it leaks you will have a very hard time to fix. It is often the case that you can not fix because the damages are too much and not recoverable. That is why I suggest people to replace those capacitors before the leak starts.
When should we change? According to the experiments and my actual experience, roughly 100,000 hours is the border line regarding the Nichicon PF(M) capacitors.
My intention is not to blame the manufacturers. I just want that we LS400/Celsior owners are happy keeping the excellent car long. As you change rubbers after many years of use, you'd better also to change those capacitors for your better and safety ride.
Most of electrolytic capacitors follow the "Arrhenius Equation". For an example, 10 degrees higher the temperature, the shorter the life about 50% in accordance with the calculation result of the Equation. This is amazingly accurate. The detail can be found here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrhenius_equation
But those Nichicon PF(M) and the family capacitors that contain the special liquid “quaternaty ammonium salt / compounds" used for LS400 and other Toyota cars in the late 80s and 90s are not only related to the "Arrhenius Equation" but also related another factor. The internal special liquid turns to very strong alkali after certain period of time and the legs are corroded. In use or not in use doesn't make any significant difference.
After certain time period, the liquid begins to leak. It is something like a time bomb. It doesn't explode but it eats copper patterns and damages parts near by. This is also conductive and the short circuits are caused too. The board also absorbs the liquid some. Once it leaks you will have a very hard time to fix. It is often the case that you can not fix because the damages are too much and not recoverable. That is why I suggest people to replace those capacitors before the leak starts.
When should we change? According to the experiments and my actual experience, roughly 100,000 hours is the border line regarding the Nichicon PF(M) capacitors.
My intention is not to blame the manufacturers. I just want that we LS400/Celsior owners are happy keeping the excellent car long. As you change rubbers after many years of use, you'd better also to change those capacitors for your better and safety ride.
This information is very informative. When you say 100,000 hours or about 11.5 years you mean in general right? Not 11.5 years of operating hours. I guess my question is, if heat degrades the capacitors more quickly, like about everything in life, then cars with less mileage and hence exposure to less heat should theoretically mean that the caps would last longer? I'm a big preventive maintenance kind of guy and I like to take care of a problem before it starts. But I also don't want to waste my money. I only have 72,000 miles on my 99. Although, I do not have any of the electrical problems just wondering if it is worth looking at the cap and having them replaced for trouble free years to come.