MicahBerry

Looks like E15 is on the way, and while implementation may take some time, I wonder about the affects of the additional 5% on the LS400 engines. Not so much on fuel economy, which I know will go down a little bit, but more on the seals and various rubber bits that the ethanol comes in contact with, i.e. engine longevity and reliability.

My owners manual states to avoid anything higher than a 10% blend. An increase of 5% doesn't sound like a lot at first blush, but after a long time of usage, the increase can't be good, right?...

For those in the know, what can we do (outside of purchasing a 07+ model car) to offset the 5% increase? Is it something to really worry about, or is this a making a mountain out of a molehill?

Thanks,
Micah

lemaylexus

I had the same concern regarding my 2JZ-GE. My question is will they continue to offer 10% ethanol at gas stations for people with older model cars? The large majority of people I know (including nearly all my friends, family, etc.) drive cars produced before 2007 (and many produced before 2000). You have to assume that they will. I can't see the EPA or any petroleum company wanting to get involved in thousands of legal battles over property damage, especially if that damage consistently lead back to engine deterioration due to higher ethanol concentrations. Personally, I wish they would just stop with this ethanol nonsense; it's a waste of time, money, and resources. However, since we already subsidize corn so we can put it into everything else we consume, why not just put it in our fuel, too- right?

williamb82

i just changed every seal on my ls400, so only thing i might have to change is the flexible fuel fed line from the hardline to the rail, and then the short piece for the return, and any flex line near the tank. all can be replaced with the proper fittings and ss braided line. just a hassle and added exspense for crappier mileage. wish we could buy 100% gas still. it worked much better and had better fuel economy.

Marklouis

this is the first I have heard of such a push - I know for a fact its terrible on small and marine engines. you have to use an ethanol treatment when storing for the wintertime in marine engine applications. I really thought they were getting away from producing Ethanol from corn - the high demand on the cornfields renders them useless over time. They may use an additive now that keeps the ethanol from eating/corroding the fuel lines, but I doubt it. I remember the switch to 10% ethanol in all gas stations and there was a performance/fuel effiecency drop in my 94 Acura Vigor (RIP). but eventually we all got use to it over time.

Hopefully they have done accross the board testing for cars 10+ years with the E15 mix, if not, it may be the Big Brothers way of "junking" our precious classics and forcing everone to buy a newer car. it happened in the 70's!

91LS400vgb

In addition to lower fuel economy, ethanol has an even bigger negative. Ethanol attracts water so you end up with a lot of water in the tank, which is not good. What's worse is if the water accumulates enough, it may cause phase separation of the ethanol. When phase separation occurs the ethanol drops to the bottom of the tank displacing any gas at the bottom, which means pure ethanol and water get pumped to the engine. The only way to combat this issue is to periodically pour in some isopropyl dry gas on a full tank; the isopropyl dry gas will combine with water and then get burned off in the engine, thereby eliminating the moisture issue.

MicahBerry

I did NOT realize that! What a nice bit of information! Thanks, 91LS400vgb!

Looking at the corn markets, they are as high as I can recently remember. The additional push to 15% will only support the increased corn price. Not only that, I can also see additional farmers switching to more profitable corn from other crops. And while that would increase supply and decrease the price of corn (nix govt. intervention), I'd bet agriculture lobbyists and such would argue for additional corn subsidies to support inflated prices even with an eventual oversupply. Any way... turning off my rant.

I have heard of marine fuel stabilizer, which is supposed to be pretty good stuff, and different from the Stabil one can purchase at discount auto stores.

Williamb82, if you don't mind me asking, how much did changing every seal run you? Did you do that yourself? Ultimately, that appears to be the permanent solution to continue driving LS400s. But as you noted in your post, sounds like a hassle.

Thanks,
Micah

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

The EPA just today announced the adoption of an E15 fuel standard. No word about keeping E10 around but my understanding is that E10 was the limit for most engines never designed to handle higher ethanol mixtures.

I hope changing my 2JZ-GE's fuel filters be enough to ward off long term corrosion for at least a couple of years.

deanshark

I'd bet that the E10 will still be available. With all the older cars that are out there, I don't think they would just do away with it. Nascar has changed to E15 "American Ethanol". The one good thing with that switch is it's all "American" made. This will give the American farmers a very bright future.
Made for Americans, by Americans. That's the way it should be.