Engine Swap question
01-20-10, 11:56 PM
#1
Driver
Thread Starter
Engine Swap question
I am checking out a 95 LS part car tomorrow. The car doesn't run, so I presume it may have broken timing belt (assuming the worst). So just curious what engine would go into a 95 without extensive mods? 95-97? 98-00? pre 95? Hate to see a otherwise straight LS go to waste when all it needs is a used/rebuilt engine. Thanks.
01-21-10, 12:36 AM
#2
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Welcome to CL!
I'm not exactly sure but seeing as how its a 95, shouldn't you swap in an engine of the same generation (95-97)?
Might want to hit up search as I think there were similar questions regarding engine swaps, but heres what I found off a quick search.
Good luck!
I'm not exactly sure but seeing as how its a 95, shouldn't you swap in an engine of the same generation (95-97)?
Might want to hit up search as I think there were similar questions regarding engine swaps, but heres what I found off a quick search.
you need to do some research, 90-94 and 95-97 engines are not exactly the same, plus they're OBDII, so you'd have to convert. also the wiring on 90-92, 93-94, and 95-97 are ALL VERY DIFFERENT. transmission was changed for '95 as well. you need a motor in your year range.
I really don't see what the big deal is, I have done the research, and I'll make an attempt to help you. Why can't he use all the 95' or 96' OBD2 motor, and swap in the OBD1 sensors, harness, ecu, and since he is building the motor, he can easily swap over the pan, sump, and oil filter housing.... I mean... c'mon guys, I know he could have searched a little more, but I would love for someone to explain why he couldn't do it...
Now.... here is some info you CAN use. 89-94 1uz, thickest (not forged, just more meat than 95+) rods, distributors, 10.1 comp.... 95-97 1uz, thin rods, distributors, 10.4 comp, interference (if timing belt breaks, valves and pistons make sweet love). Toy/Lex built the 95' 1UZFE to be "obd2 compliant", which means that since the 95' LS4 is OBD1, the 95' SC4 is OBD2, so they both run distributors, non-VVT-i, 10.4 comp, and the other difference between the motors is that an SC4 uses a different wiring harness, fuel rails, headers, transmission, ecu as well since both ecus control the engine and transmission. One other thing I'd like to mention is that OBD1 uses an AFM or air flow meter, and OBD2 utilizes a MAF or mass air flow sensor, they do not swap, you will need to use whatever sensor the ecu calls for. If you do your research, as advised, you will find that USDM went to OBD2 in 96' due to emissions, however JDM didn't start adopting OBD2 until 98', so if you are fortunate enough to find an early 98' or late 97' OBD1 on eBay with low miles, I'd jump on it...
So re-cap... 89'-94' 1UZFE are almost all the same, the differences being oil pans, oil sump pick-ups, oil filter housing, fuel rails, ecus, transmissions, and you may have to switch over thermostat housings, as the coolant resv feeds into the housing, SC4 might not.... 95'-97' run slightly higher compression, but have thinner rods to achieve that, most are OBD2, however some are OBD1, and if you purchase a OBD2, you will need to swap all the sensors back to OBD1, I'd prefer 95' LS4 sensors, but I really don't see why 89'-94' sensors wouldn't work, however you will need the 95' LS4 ecu (I think) because of the elevated compression, however I am sure Pre-95' would work, just not efficiently.
JDM 1UZFE didn't adopt OBD2 until sometime in 98', you could easily find a low mileage motor, and swap all your existing fuel rails, oil pan and sump, ecu, exhaust manifolds, sensors, and other misc parts including your drive belt accessories, air intake, emission stuff (if not deleted), etc, etc. So, If it were me, I would find out before I bought the parts, what you really want to achieve, because if you start to shy away from the above stated, your going to open up pandora's box.
I am sorry some of this is a little unclear, I am not the best at communicating, however I am working on it. It just bugs me that others would rather post comments that have no relevance rather than helping out, how does that help besides raising your post count? There is a reason why we are on a forum, because we all have asked or needed help with something that is beyond our grasp. Maybe the research that has been done before is inconclusive... There is a good saying, there always seems to be more horse's asses than there are horses... Again, sorry I couldn't be even more help, but I hope this at least stops the nay-sayers, and puts you on a easier path.... Just trying to help.
Now.... here is some info you CAN use. 89-94 1uz, thickest (not forged, just more meat than 95+) rods, distributors, 10.1 comp.... 95-97 1uz, thin rods, distributors, 10.4 comp, interference (if timing belt breaks, valves and pistons make sweet love). Toy/Lex built the 95' 1UZFE to be "obd2 compliant", which means that since the 95' LS4 is OBD1, the 95' SC4 is OBD2, so they both run distributors, non-VVT-i, 10.4 comp, and the other difference between the motors is that an SC4 uses a different wiring harness, fuel rails, headers, transmission, ecu as well since both ecus control the engine and transmission. One other thing I'd like to mention is that OBD1 uses an AFM or air flow meter, and OBD2 utilizes a MAF or mass air flow sensor, they do not swap, you will need to use whatever sensor the ecu calls for. If you do your research, as advised, you will find that USDM went to OBD2 in 96' due to emissions, however JDM didn't start adopting OBD2 until 98', so if you are fortunate enough to find an early 98' or late 97' OBD1 on eBay with low miles, I'd jump on it...
So re-cap... 89'-94' 1UZFE are almost all the same, the differences being oil pans, oil sump pick-ups, oil filter housing, fuel rails, ecus, transmissions, and you may have to switch over thermostat housings, as the coolant resv feeds into the housing, SC4 might not.... 95'-97' run slightly higher compression, but have thinner rods to achieve that, most are OBD2, however some are OBD1, and if you purchase a OBD2, you will need to swap all the sensors back to OBD1, I'd prefer 95' LS4 sensors, but I really don't see why 89'-94' sensors wouldn't work, however you will need the 95' LS4 ecu (I think) because of the elevated compression, however I am sure Pre-95' would work, just not efficiently.
JDM 1UZFE didn't adopt OBD2 until sometime in 98', you could easily find a low mileage motor, and swap all your existing fuel rails, oil pan and sump, ecu, exhaust manifolds, sensors, and other misc parts including your drive belt accessories, air intake, emission stuff (if not deleted), etc, etc. So, If it were me, I would find out before I bought the parts, what you really want to achieve, because if you start to shy away from the above stated, your going to open up pandora's box.
I am sorry some of this is a little unclear, I am not the best at communicating, however I am working on it. It just bugs me that others would rather post comments that have no relevance rather than helping out, how does that help besides raising your post count? There is a reason why we are on a forum, because we all have asked or needed help with something that is beyond our grasp. Maybe the research that has been done before is inconclusive... There is a good saying, there always seems to be more horse's asses than there are horses... Again, sorry I couldn't be even more help, but I hope this at least stops the nay-sayers, and puts you on a easier path.... Just trying to help.
Last edited by vietunit; 01-21-10 at 12:42 AM.
01-21-10, 07:39 AM
#3
Driver
Thread Starter
Thanks. I too looked here and online for answers but found most swaps involved putting 1uz's into Toyota's, or involving SC's. I am sure a '95 engine swap would be the easiest, but curious if 96-97 would be plug & play. Or I can go for 89-94 (more solidly built), or 98-00 (VVTi). Lots of old 1uz's in CA so I figure I can possibly come across any vintage in good shape, that is why I asked.
More insights? Anyone?
More insights? Anyone?
01-21-10, 08:23 AM
#4
Thanks. I too looked here and online for answers but found most swaps involved putting 1uz's into Toyota's, or involving SC's. I am sure a '95 engine swap would be the easiest, but curious if 96-97 would be plug & play. Or I can go for 89-94 (more solidly built), or 98-00 (VVTi). Lots of old 1uz's in CA so I figure I can possibly come across any vintage in good shape, that is why I asked.
More insights? Anyone?
More insights? Anyone?
ck9: If you go back and re-read Vietunit's post where he quotes me, I have basically broken down what you need to do to get almost any 1UZ into your 95'. I'll make it even more simple for you. There are simply 7 options that come to my mind. Ranging from easiest to hardest.... First, keep in mind nothing is ever as easy as it sounds, second everything is going to involve some amount of work, whether it's wiring, parts, mounts, etc...
1. If you want to make it just a block swap, no accessories, etc. than you need a 95'-97' motor from an LS400, that way you re-use all your accessories, most sensors, wiring, and ECU.
2. If you don't mind swapping parts from your LS400 to an SC 1UZ, then you can purchase a 95'-97' SC400 1UZ, you will need to change the oil pans, oil filter housing, and a few other things. Because your 95' LS400 is OBD1, you can't just swap in an OBD2 motor, and a 95' SC400 is OBD2, so you would need to switch most of your sensors back to the LS400 ones.
3. If you want to to swap in a 89'-94' motor in there, you should be able to use the existing harness and sensors, however I am sure the ECUs are different as the compression ratios changed over the years, I am not totally sure if everything is plug and play, but with some research you can find out.
4. If you want VVT-i, you will have to rewire the engine bay for the VVT-i harness and ECU. I can't imagine everything is completely different, I just know that the VVT-i is a little more complex as it doesn't use distributors and uses coil over plugs.
5. If you want more power you can do a little more research and source a Tundra 4.7 Iron block, and bolt all your stuff up to the 2UZ, however pretty sure you need different motor mounts, other than that you should be good to go, as there are a few people out there doing this right now.
6. If you want a lot more power you can go the 2JZ route, however it is a little more labor intensive, but DEFINITELY worth it.
7. If you want a lot more power and want a V8, over on the 2GS forums there is a company, DGR fabrication that is selling LSx/T56 motor and tranny mount to adapt a GM LSx motor into our Lexus platforms, with a little modifying, you could easily get it to work.
Good luck, hope that helps clear up some answers. And feel free to add an option if I seemed to overlook one.
01-21-10, 12:11 PM
#6
2. If you don't mind swapping parts from your LS400 to an SC 1UZ, then you can purchase a 95'-97' SC400 1UZ, you will need to change the oil pans, oil filter housing, and a few other things. Because your 95' LS400 is OBD1, you can't just swap in an OBD2 motor, and a 95' SC400 is OBD2, so you would need to switch most of your sensors back to the LS400 ones.
3. If you want to to swap in a 89'-94' motor in there, you should be able to use the existing harness and sensors, however I am sure the ECUs are different as the compression ratios changed over the years, I am not totally sure if everything is plug and play, but with some research you can find out.
4. If you want VVT-i, you will have to rewire the engine bay for the VVT-i harness and ECU. I can't imagine everything is completely different, I just know that the VVT-i is a little more complex as it doesn't use distributors and uses coil over plugs.
3. If you want to to swap in a 89'-94' motor in there, you should be able to use the existing harness and sensors, however I am sure the ECUs are different as the compression ratios changed over the years, I am not totally sure if everything is plug and play, but with some research you can find out.
4. If you want VVT-i, you will have to rewire the engine bay for the VVT-i harness and ECU. I can't imagine everything is completely different, I just know that the VVT-i is a little more complex as it doesn't use distributors and uses coil over plugs.
also, a BIG problem would be that the SC400 didn't get the same variant of the 1UZ as the '95 LS til a year later, in '96. for the SC400, the same early version of the 1uz is used from 92-95 (same basic motor as LS400 89-94)
http://www.lexus.com/contact/pdf/1995/1995SCspecs.pdf (note compression specs. later version is 10.4:1)
3. most of the existing sensors wont fit in the earlier motors without modifications, and there will be definite wiring needed.
4. switching to the VVTi motor is a BIG undertaking, primarily in wiring, and the fact that you WILL have to switch to the 5spd autobox from the '98-00 since the ECU is OBDII and also controls the transmission.
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01-22-10, 08:23 AM
#9
2. I would buy whatever motor you please, from an SC or LS but from 95-97', then just unbolt all your existing accessories and bolt them on the newer long block. Shouldn't be a big deal, just a little part transferring. Almost everything on your LS should go onto your newer motor, if it were me, just make it easy as possible, you already know you have everything to make the engine run already, don't stray from that unless your prepared. Also it's a good time with the motors apart to do the t-belt, water pump, oil seals, valve cover gaskets, etc. Just remember, you need to us all your 95' LS400 sensors, exhaust, intake mani, electronic, etc, from your car on the newer motor
3. I can't imagine that the sensors from the years have changed that much, I don't see why you couldn't buy the motor and then just use all the accessories from the 95' motor as it doesn't need the cold-start injector, all the vacuum lines to run the EGR stuff, etc. But I know that the intake manifold bolt patterns are the same, so its not as if the newer manifold wouldn't bolt down onto the older block, or visa versa. Things like the cam and crank changed, but not locations or sizes, it is mostly the wiring, so it's not as if you couldn't use the new sensors in the old places, a cam sensor is a cam sensor is a cam sensor is a cam sensor, a crank sensor is a crank sensor.........
4. Agreed, VVT-i wouldn't be the easiest thing to do, but if you have the motor out of the vehicle, most likely you pull the motor and tranny together. But in the event you don't it's only a little more time to actually pull the tranny, so if you gun ho, go for it and tell us what we need as mostly no one has really broken it down for us. But lets say you find a VVT-i for a really low price, you could just take the intake and heads off of the block, and use the VVT-i block with your 95' cyli heads, intake, exhaust, sensors, etc.
3. I can't imagine that the sensors from the years have changed that much, I don't see why you couldn't buy the motor and then just use all the accessories from the 95' motor as it doesn't need the cold-start injector, all the vacuum lines to run the EGR stuff, etc. But I know that the intake manifold bolt patterns are the same, so its not as if the newer manifold wouldn't bolt down onto the older block, or visa versa. Things like the cam and crank changed, but not locations or sizes, it is mostly the wiring, so it's not as if you couldn't use the new sensors in the old places, a cam sensor is a cam sensor is a cam sensor is a cam sensor, a crank sensor is a crank sensor.........
4. Agreed, VVT-i wouldn't be the easiest thing to do, but if you have the motor out of the vehicle, most likely you pull the motor and tranny together. But in the event you don't it's only a little more time to actually pull the tranny, so if you gun ho, go for it and tell us what we need as mostly no one has really broken it down for us. But lets say you find a VVT-i for a really low price, you could just take the intake and heads off of the block, and use the VVT-i block with your 95' cyli heads, intake, exhaust, sensors, etc.
Last edited by 3UZFTE; 01-22-10 at 08:38 AM.
01-22-10, 11:10 AM
#10
2. I would buy whatever motor you please, from an SC or LS but from 95-97', then just unbolt all your existing accessories and bolt them on the newer long block. Shouldn't be a big deal, just a little part transferring. Almost everything on your LS should go onto your newer motor, if it were me, just make it easy as possible, you already know you have everything to make the engine run already, don't stray from that unless your prepared. Also it's a good time with the motors apart to do the t-belt, water pump, oil seals, valve cover gaskets, etc. Just remember, you need to us all your 95' LS400 sensors, exhaust, intake mani, electronic, etc, from your car on the newer motor
3. I can't imagine that the sensors from the years have changed that much, I don't see why you couldn't buy the motor and then just use all the accessories from the 95' motor as it doesn't need the cold-start injector, all the vacuum lines to run the EGR stuff, etc. But I know that the intake manifold bolt patterns are the same, so its not as if the newer manifold wouldn't bolt down onto the older block, or visa versa. Things like the cam and crank changed, but not locations or sizes, it is mostly the wiring, so it's not as if you couldn't use the new sensors in the old places, a cam sensor is a cam sensor is a cam sensor is a cam sensor, a crank sensor is a crank sensor.........
4. Agreed, VVT-i wouldn't be the easiest thing to do, but if you have the motor out of the vehicle, most likely you pull the motor and tranny together. But in the event you don't it's only a little more time to actually pull the tranny, so if you gun ho, go for it and tell us what we need as mostly no one has really broken it down for us. But lets say you find a VVT-i for a really low price, you could just take the intake and heads off of the block, and use the VVT-i block with your 95' cyli heads, intake, exhaust, sensors, etc.
3. I can't imagine that the sensors from the years have changed that much, I don't see why you couldn't buy the motor and then just use all the accessories from the 95' motor as it doesn't need the cold-start injector, all the vacuum lines to run the EGR stuff, etc. But I know that the intake manifold bolt patterns are the same, so its not as if the newer manifold wouldn't bolt down onto the older block, or visa versa. Things like the cam and crank changed, but not locations or sizes, it is mostly the wiring, so it's not as if you couldn't use the new sensors in the old places, a cam sensor is a cam sensor is a cam sensor is a cam sensor, a crank sensor is a crank sensor.........
4. Agreed, VVT-i wouldn't be the easiest thing to do, but if you have the motor out of the vehicle, most likely you pull the motor and tranny together. But in the event you don't it's only a little more time to actually pull the tranny, so if you gun ho, go for it and tell us what we need as mostly no one has really broken it down for us. But lets say you find a VVT-i for a really low price, you could just take the intake and heads off of the block, and use the VVT-i block with your 95' cyli heads, intake, exhaust, sensors, etc.
3-again, the '95 LS400 is OBDII, not OBDI, whereas i believe (but dont 100% remember) that the '95 SC400 was still OBDI, with the change coming in effect for '96. a sensor is not a sensor, otherwise we could use other manufacturer's sensors. also, afaik the AFM used in '89-94 LS (92-95 SC) is very different from the hot-wire style MAF used in the '95+ LS and (i believe) '96+ SC.
4- again, wiring will be utter hell because the '98-00 use multiplexing ecus which are spidered into most of the chassis wiring.
01-22-10, 03:57 PM
#11
Driver
Thread Starter
I bought the parts car. It is actually a 96 and drivable as of Nov/Dec. Story was, dealer (a used car dealership) went out and bought a running (private sale) 96 LS with Air Suspension and Nakamichi with 150K miles for $3K and hoping to sell for $5K+ (they usually put a 6-12 months warranty on them). Could not, so they took it to an auction but didn't sell. But this (being in Manheim auction) means the car was drivable and title clean (so probably no timing belt issue yet). Then in Dec air suspension went out but dealer decided not to sink more money into it, and want it off the books, so it was sold as a parts car, and I bought it $500, and another $500 for back taxes, registrations, etc... Could have saved taxes as junk/salvage, but decided to get a clean title, in case this thing comes back from the dead and selling it someday.
The battery (Bosch) looks fresh but no accessories were on when key turned (no lights, windows, radio, and no starter turning, no nothing). So hopefully when I plug some external power to it, I will get some sign of life (lights, radio, and maybe starter)?
Thanks to all for advice. Hope I don't need it yet.
The battery (Bosch) looks fresh but no accessories were on when key turned (no lights, windows, radio, and no starter turning, no nothing). So hopefully when I plug some external power to it, I will get some sign of life (lights, radio, and maybe starter)?
Thanks to all for advice. Hope I don't need it yet.
02-02-10, 10:30 PM
#12
Driver
Thread Starter
Well, it's confirmed the timing belt snapped thus engine is hosed. A salvage engine in SoCal can be had for $500 and another $500 labor, but with air suspension gone and needing new tires, will junk this thing and strip all good parts off for my 95 (running well and looking great still).
02-03-10, 12:27 AM
#13
Well, it's confirmed the timing belt snapped thus engine is hosed. A salvage engine in SoCal can be had for $500 and another $500 labor, but with air suspension gone and needing new tires, will junk this thing and strip all good parts off for my 95 (running well and looking great still).
pm me.
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