TJW98LS

iTrader: (1)

All my cars run full synthetic.

steveski

I do my own changes as well. That way I control the process and get a chance to keep a close eye on the under carriage The debate between syn and non-syn always gets many replies. We always have used Mobil1 Syn with equivalent filter. Bottom line though it is up to you as they both exceed standard specifications. I don't mind spending the extra $$$ on Mobil1 Syn since I do it each 15,000 miles.

3UZFTE

I have to respectively disagree, I think that as a by product of combustion, there is going to be dirt and oil varnish in your engine, as the oil system is constantly under pressure, it is very unlikely to have a chunk of crud in the corner, seal, or oil passage. And when you put synthetic in it, it's not like it goes through an cleans all that crud up, it's the same lubricant being pulled through the same pump, filter, passages, and being scrapped of the cylinder walls. So would it not be safe to say that synthetic will collect the same amount of dirt regardless of whether the oil "breaks down" or not... The real task of cleaning the oil is in the filter, so that when companies advertise that your oil resist breaking down, etc, etc, well isn't that how the contaminants are removed from the engine, to prolong the life of the engine? I would say it is probably better off to put cheapo oil in there, and change it every 1000 miles, than put Amsoil in and go 25,000, I could only imagine what the oil (and inside of your engine) would look like. The reason why most people experience oil leaks after switching to synthetic is because it has smaller molecules, so it will literally squeeze into places that the conventional couldn't, hence your main seal leak. I'd imagine that if you go back to convetional, or run 5w-40 oil, your leak will slow down just because the oil has a large make up, and can't squeeze through the holes as easily. 5w-30 synthetic acts more like 3w-25 because of it's make-up. Alot of people experience leaks, if you google it, it is not a uncommon thing. I used to run all synthetic in my Blazer, Envoy, and my Lexus, but after leaving the store with $30-$40 of oil in my hand, I thought that was a waste of money! So when I started to work for Toyota, I did a little thinking, and switched back to dino. Don't get me wrong, I think they do a good job of advertising, however I just wouldn't believe that Lexus wouldn't make a car leave their factory without synthetic if it really did make your car go like 300,000 miles... Proper maintenance and care can do that on regular oil, have you not seen the Chevy, Volvo, and Ford million mile club?

That's not a bad deal if your getting nice prices. 6 qts at $5 a piece adds up to $30, and that doesn't include the filter. I am sure you can get some great pricing but at our Toyota shop it was $19.99 for an oil change, OEM filter, all fluid top off, and tire pressure checked, plus employee discount, can't beat that. I don't like to get dirty.... j/k

JimsGX

3UZFTE,

I don't really disagree with what your saying, especially about the smaller size of the molecules in synthetic oil. I think this is why they add seal conditioners to the synthetic.

Through my reading, I found articles that spoke about problems with synthetics from many, many years ago. Oil leaks from switching to synthetics back years ago seemed to be more the norm than the exception. Once the oil companies got the additive mixture right, including the addition of more seal conditioners, many of the oil leak problems went away.

I've also read that today, 10-20% of cars switching to synthetic develop oil leaks. Is it because those 10~20% that switch have marginal seals or gaskets to begin with? That could very well be the case.

There apparently is a cleaning action that takes place at least when switching to Mobil1 (this is the brand I've researched the most up to now). Different Mobil1 products contain "extra seal conditioners" and "additional cleaning agents". I think the cleaning agents are working at the particle level, not necessarily disloging large pieces of junk.

Anyways, it took over 1k miles of driving over a month after switching to the Mobile1 before I had signs of a leak. So what was happening inside my engine during those 1k+ miles that led to the leak and why wasn't it more immediate?

Thanks
Jim

nthach

Mobil 1 High Mileage - of which AutoZone is having a oil change special on uses a stouter add pack which meets tougher ACEA A3/B3 standards that BMW/Mercedes/VW specify over API/ILSAC specs.

I've been running synthetic in my engine since last year with Pennzoil Platinum - I have Valvoline SynPower in it now. I also have Red Line 75W-90 in my rear diff, I used M1 before in rear ends. I'm also running synthetic in a 2005 Sienna and a 2009 Prius. I'm trying to keep the Sienna's 1MZ-FE based engine clean and to eke out every MPG in the Prius.

JimsGX

I just bought this the other day... Hopefully it will help. Valvoline MaxLife is also available in a full synthetic and meets the ACEA A3/B3 Standard. I couldn't find it at Autozone though, they only had MaxLife synthetic blend. I went there intending to buy it and ended up with the Mobil1 High Mileage.

Thanks

3UZFTE

Sorry for the delayed response, I am Carlisle, PA. for a Corvette show, we drove out 62' out from Minnesota. You bring up some valid points. I would agree with the whole seal thing as I switched to synthetic for a few oil changes in my GS430, I never once experienced any leaks. However, I didn't notice any performance gains either, mileage was the same, etc, etc. So I switched back to save some coin.

I don't think you saw an immediate leak because the oil hasn't really broken down yet. When you put fresh oil in, it takes a few miles to break it down to be able to pick up dirt, go through the pump, filter, and passages. Plus, you also mostly likely has just a smig of conventional non-synthetic left over from maybe 3 oil changes ago, however eventually you will just have synthetic. Have you tried running 10w-40 to help your leak?

Last thing I would mention... is that if you guys didn't know Mobil1 is still a conventional based oil. It says "fully synthetic" on the bottle, but like most advertising, it is false and is actually a synthetic dino oil. I used to run Mobil1 synthetic before I went to Royal Purple, now back at the cheap stuff.

3UZFTE

Everyone that produced oil either meets or exceeds API regulations. But yes, Mobil one is used by alot of manufactures out there including GM. I know you said 1MZ based, but it is the 3MZ, same thing, but newer and more advanced, I don't enjoy doing those oil changes as the filter is right under the exhaust manifold. I call that the hand burner, ever tried not putting an filter on and starting it up? You'll be cleaning oil for a week, ask me how I know.... Last thing... Are you a thrifty Prius owner? Have you added up the cost per synthetic vs. mpg? And I am quite sure there is research to show both ways, that synthetic is better or worse than conventional, but I haven't had to many people prove to me numbers wise it makes sense.

I do not mean to harp, I just love a good ole' debate. Maybe there is something that I don't know about this stuff, but I would love to hear it from you, and not Mobil1, I can watch TV and read the bottle myself.

nthach

I was able to pull off 53.75mpg, my parents never check their MPG, but I drove it for a week and a half. And I don't drive like a old lady either. The trip computer said 48.7mpg - but Toyota's TCs are inaccurate.

The only car I would trust a regular Group II oil per OEM maintenance schedule is a Honda - my friend's Civic went well over 7000 miles on Quaker State conventional. Toyotas are just too hard on their lube oil.

gmacrae

Keep in mind, all oils have had cleaning agent/detergent additives for 30 or 40 years, its not just the synthetics that do that. So, like 3UZFTE, i don't think this argument explains why synthetics can cause older engines to leak.

Still, one thing i wonder is, how can a synthetic be physically thinner, and more able to penetrate seals if it has the same warm viscosity rating? (say *w30). That's the whole point of a viscosity rating surely?

My 95 (done 190,000kms), did start to puff a bit of oil smoke on cold startup (valve seals), when i changed to the semi syn 10w40 at 150,000kms. I guess it ran dino oil most of it's life. It doesn't worry me tho because it's a very small amount.

JimsGX

Synthetic Oil Seal & Gasket Leaks:

http://bestsyntheticoil.com/content222.html

3UZFTE

I was just saying, if you add up a $60 oil change, everything 3000 miles for 100k, you will have spent $2,000 dollars on oil. Whereas if you find a $20 oil change, like we did at Carlson, it comes out to be around $670, that's $1,230 that you could save and put towards fuel.... Again, I am not trying to harp, but does it make sense to spend an extra $1,200 to make 2 mpg more? I am quite sure you didn't see a 5 mpg difference because of synthetic, but more of driving differences. Toyota's are pretty decent on their oil actually. When I was at Carlson Toyota, we had a women come in with a seized engine. She had an 01' Avalon, with the 3MZ, 124k on the clock, and upon diagnosis there was next to no oil in the car. It turns out the sales person who sold her the car, never mentioned it needed to have the oil changed every 3k. She went 124k on her original oil!!!! Toyota said "we will cover this once, and only once", and they sure did replaced the engine at no cost to her. Lexus goes 5,000 miles on every oil change, on "semi-synthetic", which is actually conventional. My buddy's dad's truck leaks so much oil, he just adds a quart every time the oil light comes on, so it's basically like he's doing a constant flush.... He hasn't changed his oil and filter in over 50k miles because it's a Chevy truck, the rear main is leaking, and he has almost 300k on the truck, and this is his 3rd one...

Gmacrae: That's a good point about viscosity, but that rating is done by basically taking a cup, poking a hole in it, and let it come through, the faster it comes out, the thinner the viscosity, and the slower it comes out, the thicker it is. 0w, 5w, 10w are the winter weights, below 40* it will act as a 5 weight oil, and above 40* it will act like a 20, 30, or 40 weight... 5w-30, is a 5 weight below 40*, and 30 weight above 40*. I'm sure you already knew that, but how fast something pours isn't necessarily related to the molecular build up, but you bring up a good point.

I'm not sure I trust a company that is also trying to "push" synthetic, and more importantly Amsoil. I'm sure it's great stuff, but the ignorance behind most people who are private sellers or dealers about the purpose of oil, oil change intervals, etc, etc, I just have a hard time believing their giving you the "truth".

whysub

My LS has 222,000 on the clock now, and runs, beautifully, on normal oil. No smoke on start up, no blue trial under accelleration, etc.

I also run motorbikes, and have had a number that have done big mileages. My Fireblade is now on 95,000 miles, and has run with semi synth for the last 50,000 miles.

I did have a GSX-R 750 that, at 100,000 miles I decided to change to fully synth oil. Upon start up it smoked (it never did before) and sounded really rattly. Worried I drained it and put cheap 20-50 car oil in it. It ran for another 80,000 miles on the cheapest oil i coulD buy before it was crashed and written off by the insurance co.

I swear that engines last so much longer when they always do trips that heat the oil to it's optimum tempreture, and boil off condensation and contaminates. My bikes rarely do trips of less than 60 miles, and i am sure this is why they last. It is certainly not because they are treated gently, except for the first few miles, then it's redline all the way

nthach

The local Toyota dealer here charges $60 for a oil change - unless it calls 0W-20, and they use Chevron bulk in which I can easily buy a case at Costco. I go to Wal-Mart for my oil needs. Honda here uses Quaker State bulk, unless it's a Civic Hybrid/Insight/Accord Hybrid or a S2K, then they tack on a additional $20 charge for Honda/Idemitsu 0W-20 or Mobil 10W-30.

We spend $15-30 for oil changes with the DIY route, with 5K OCIs.

3UZFTE

Oh man, I am sorry. $60 is just unheard of for a normal oil change... In fact if someone quoted me at $60 for conventional, I'd ask if they were joking.... Yeah, I don't blame you for saving a few bucks, holy smokes... $60!