Have you ever used "Motor Flush" when doing an oil change?
03-12-08, 11:38 PM
#1
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Have you ever used "Motor Flush" when doing an oil change?
In my previous car I would drain about a quart of oil, put the plug back in, then add a quart of Motor Flush. Run the engine for 5-7 minutes, turn off and do a typical oil change. The only reason that I used this stuff is that it would make the oil drain faster, due to the fact that it is literally the viscosity of water.
(Do not drive with this crap in your crankcase)
Now my LS is not due for an oil change for at least another 2.5K. Would you suggest not to use the MF, or does it not really matter?
Off the subject, but is my car running synthetic right now if I bought it at 95K and the sticker on the windshield says next oil service 99.5K? Is there any way to know exactly, because I would like to put synthetic in at the next change.
Alot of guys at my work say that it is dangerous to switch over to synthetic from dino oils if the car has higher mileage. Something about the "seals" can leak or something.
(Do not drive with this crap in your crankcase)Now my LS is not due for an oil change for at least another 2.5K. Would you suggest not to use the MF, or does it not really matter?
Off the subject, but is my car running synthetic right now if I bought it at 95K and the sticker on the windshield says next oil service 99.5K? Is there any way to know exactly, because I would like to put synthetic in at the next change.
Alot of guys at my work say that it is dangerous to switch over to synthetic from dino oils if the car has higher mileage. Something about the "seals" can leak or something.
03-12-08, 11:59 PM
#3
I wouldn't put in the Motor Flush at all personally. Definitely not in for 2.5k miles 
If you want to put anything in there,.. Get some sea-foam and put a third of the can in the oil the same day you are to change it. Drive it 40-80 miles with it in, and get it changed.
Use one third in your gas, and one third in the brake booster. (If you've never used it before) -- Perfectly safe, and effective. *cheap too*.
As for synthetic... no way to tell from the sticker you are reading, unless it lists the type of oil.. does it say anything else on the sticker?
The only thing I could think of , due to the properties of synthetic vs dino, to determine if your current oil is synthetic would be to get a sample of it. Drain a little bit and put it in a transparent container (cup is fine).. Place it in the Freezer for 45mins to an hour or so,.. If it gets thick then it is *not* synthetic.
Note: I have NOT done this before,.. it just makes sense to me -- So this is not a guarantee,.. but just an idea =)
Also,.. yes, pure synthetic oils are made of 'smaller' finer particles than can seap through worn seals where your normal 'dino' oil is too large atomically to fit, thus doesn't leak. This is true, but doesn't mean it will happen, even on a high mileage engine.
Though, imho, If you aren't certain I would just continue to use Dino oil -- If changed regularly you aren't going to notice a significant difference in engine wear or performance vs synthetic. The main advantage of synthetic is simply the durability. You can go much longer between changes vs Dino.
Also, it is becoming much more commonplace to go 5k between oil changes on regular Dino oil as oppposed to the standard jiffylube 3k.. so length between changes can be tricky at times on a new vehicle or unfamiliar one.
Anyone have any more definitive way to determine this?
If you want to put anything in there,.. Get some sea-foam and put a third of the can in the oil the same day you are to change it. Drive it 40-80 miles with it in, and get it changed.
Use one third in your gas, and one third in the brake booster. (If you've never used it before) -- Perfectly safe, and effective. *cheap too*.
As for synthetic... no way to tell from the sticker you are reading, unless it lists the type of oil.. does it say anything else on the sticker?
The only thing I could think of , due to the properties of synthetic vs dino, to determine if your current oil is synthetic would be to get a sample of it. Drain a little bit and put it in a transparent container (cup is fine).. Place it in the Freezer for 45mins to an hour or so,.. If it gets thick then it is *not* synthetic.
Note: I have NOT done this before,.. it just makes sense to me -- So this is not a guarantee,.. but just an idea =)
Also,.. yes, pure synthetic oils are made of 'smaller' finer particles than can seap through worn seals where your normal 'dino' oil is too large atomically to fit, thus doesn't leak. This is true, but doesn't mean it will happen, even on a high mileage engine.
Though, imho, If you aren't certain I would just continue to use Dino oil -- If changed regularly you aren't going to notice a significant difference in engine wear or performance vs synthetic. The main advantage of synthetic is simply the durability. You can go much longer between changes vs Dino.
Also, it is becoming much more commonplace to go 5k between oil changes on regular Dino oil as oppposed to the standard jiffylube 3k.. so length between changes can be tricky at times on a new vehicle or unfamiliar one.
Anyone have any more definitive way to determine this?
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03-16-08, 12:28 PM
#9
since your are already running snythetic oil just change the oil synthetic oil is
keeps the engine clean DO NOT ADD ANY ADDITIVES to synthetic oil it is not needed. I now run the new mobil one 15,000 mile oil 5w-30 and change it at 15,000 miles and no problems. I have been running mobil one since 1986 and never had a problem with any cars I ran a 1986 cressida 440,000 miles with the same engine and trans and rear end and power steering using all mobil one fluids. My 1991 lexus with 200k every thing is lubed by mobil one and no problems the only thing that has gone wrong on this old car is the power antenna nothing else I still have the original air conditoner still using R12 freon lets see a mercedes or BMW do that.
keeps the engine clean DO NOT ADD ANY ADDITIVES to synthetic oil it is not needed. I now run the new mobil one 15,000 mile oil 5w-30 and change it at 15,000 miles and no problems. I have been running mobil one since 1986 and never had a problem with any cars I ran a 1986 cressida 440,000 miles with the same engine and trans and rear end and power steering using all mobil one fluids. My 1991 lexus with 200k every thing is lubed by mobil one and no problems the only thing that has gone wrong on this old car is the power antenna nothing else I still have the original air conditoner still using R12 freon lets see a mercedes or BMW do that.
03-16-08, 01:04 PM
#10
Bill,..
He isn't sure if his car is running synthetic, that was part of the point of the post. He asked if there was any way to determine this.
Also,.. Synthetic oil is all fine and good -- but it isn't the cure all for an engine. I personally only see the value in synthetic in that it allows for longer intervals between oil changes... I still don't have significant empirical data to prove that synthetic will be adventageous over dino oil. It has also not been proven at all that it will allow an engine to 'last longer'.
That said,.. you can absolutely add 'additives' such as a motor flush, seafoam and so forth to synthetic,.. Just do it the same day before you are changing the oil. You don't want any additives in there permanently Or for long periods of time.
I put seafoam in my crank case, and drove it 50ish miles and changed the oil. Whether or not it did any good is anyone's guess.. so I think a motor flush is just a waste of money, but will not *harm* the engine if you indeed do that, flush the motor quickly.
He isn't sure if his car is running synthetic, that was part of the point of the post. He asked if there was any way to determine this.
Also,.. Synthetic oil is all fine and good -- but it isn't the cure all for an engine. I personally only see the value in synthetic in that it allows for longer intervals between oil changes... I still don't have significant empirical data to prove that synthetic will be adventageous over dino oil. It has also not been proven at all that it will allow an engine to 'last longer'.
That said,.. you can absolutely add 'additives' such as a motor flush, seafoam and so forth to synthetic,.. Just do it the same day before you are changing the oil. You don't want any additives in there permanently Or for long periods of time.
I put seafoam in my crank case, and drove it 50ish miles and changed the oil. Whether or not it did any good is anyone's guess.. so I think a motor flush is just a waste of money, but will not *harm* the engine if you indeed do that, flush the motor quickly.
03-16-08, 02:14 PM
#11
Bill,..
He isn't sure if his car is running synthetic, that was part of the point of the post. He asked if there was any way to determine this.
Also,.. Synthetic oil is all fine and good -- but it isn't the cure all for an engine. I personally only see the value in synthetic in that it allows for longer intervals between oil changes... I still don't have significant empirical data to prove that synthetic will be adventageous over dino oil. It has also not been proven at all that it will allow an engine to 'last longer'.
That said,.. you can absolutely add 'additives' such as a motor flush, seafoam and so forth to synthetic,.. Just do it the same day before you are changing the oil. You don't want any additives in there permanently Or for long periods of time.
I put seafoam in my crank case, and drove it 50ish miles and changed the oil. Whether or not it did any good is anyone's guess.. so I think a motor flush is just a waste of money, but will not *harm* the engine if you indeed do that, flush the motor quickly.
He isn't sure if his car is running synthetic, that was part of the point of the post. He asked if there was any way to determine this.
Also,.. Synthetic oil is all fine and good -- but it isn't the cure all for an engine. I personally only see the value in synthetic in that it allows for longer intervals between oil changes... I still don't have significant empirical data to prove that synthetic will be adventageous over dino oil. It has also not been proven at all that it will allow an engine to 'last longer'.
That said,.. you can absolutely add 'additives' such as a motor flush, seafoam and so forth to synthetic,.. Just do it the same day before you are changing the oil. You don't want any additives in there permanently Or for long periods of time.
I put seafoam in my crank case, and drove it 50ish miles and changed the oil. Whether or not it did any good is anyone's guess.. so I think a motor flush is just a waste of money, but will not *harm* the engine if you indeed do that, flush the motor quickly.
03-16-08, 07:55 PM
#12
Well, Bill is somewhat right about synthetic oil. It has better resistance from turning into sludge than dino oil, especially when the engine is operating at higher than normal temperatures, and therefore will generally keep the engine clean. It also has other advantages as well.
However, there are two problems with syntetic oil. First, it is thinner than dino oil, so if your engine has leaking seals, these leaks will escalate if you use synthetic oil. This of course can be resolved by switching back to dino.
Another problem, is that syntetic oil manufacturers claim that it will keep its properties for a longer period of time, therefore you can change it at higher intervals. It is somewhat true, but I still recommend changing it at 2.5-3k intervals. No matter which oil you use, it still mixes with dirt particles that make its way into intake, and exaust particles generated by combustion, especially if the piston rings or valve seals are leaking. These particles are what causes sludge build up to begin with - they get baked onto engine internals and clog up oil lines, lower engines lubrication capability - you get the idea.
Now, as far as additives such as seafoam, or motor flush, or anything like that - I don't believe in them a slightest bit. The simlest way to test them is to apply a small amount of such cleaner to a part covered by carbon build up or sludge, and see if it dissolves anything. I bet it wont. It takes some hard scrubbing to take it off, and adding some cleaner, heavily dilluted by oil, doesn't do jack.
If your engine is alredy suffering from sludge build up, the only way to really somewhat resolve it without physcially taking the engine apart and cleaning it, is to hook it up to a machine that will pump new oil and cleaner through your engine at high pressure. But I dont think it will be very effective either. Plus it can wash away sludge from seals that have long failed, and are not leaking only because of the sludge build up.
However, there are two problems with syntetic oil. First, it is thinner than dino oil, so if your engine has leaking seals, these leaks will escalate if you use synthetic oil. This of course can be resolved by switching back to dino.
Another problem, is that syntetic oil manufacturers claim that it will keep its properties for a longer period of time, therefore you can change it at higher intervals. It is somewhat true, but I still recommend changing it at 2.5-3k intervals. No matter which oil you use, it still mixes with dirt particles that make its way into intake, and exaust particles generated by combustion, especially if the piston rings or valve seals are leaking. These particles are what causes sludge build up to begin with - they get baked onto engine internals and clog up oil lines, lower engines lubrication capability - you get the idea.
Now, as far as additives such as seafoam, or motor flush, or anything like that - I don't believe in them a slightest bit. The simlest way to test them is to apply a small amount of such cleaner to a part covered by carbon build up or sludge, and see if it dissolves anything. I bet it wont. It takes some hard scrubbing to take it off, and adding some cleaner, heavily dilluted by oil, doesn't do jack.
If your engine is alredy suffering from sludge build up, the only way to really somewhat resolve it without physcially taking the engine apart and cleaning it, is to hook it up to a machine that will pump new oil and cleaner through your engine at high pressure. But I dont think it will be very effective either. Plus it can wash away sludge from seals that have long failed, and are not leaking only because of the sludge build up.
03-16-08, 10:08 PM
#13
Well, Bill is somewhat right about synthetic oil. It has better resistance from turning into sludge than dino oil, especially when the engine is operating at higher than normal temperatures, and therefore will generally keep the engine clean. It also has other advantages as well.
However, there are two problems with syntetic oil. First, it is thinner than dino oil, so if your engine has leaking seals, these leaks will escalate if you use synthetic oil. This of course can be resolved by switching back to dino.
Another problem, is that syntetic oil manufacturers claim that it will keep its properties for a longer period of time, therefore you can change it at higher intervals. It is somewhat true, but I still recommend changing it at 2.5-3k intervals. No matter which oil you use, it still mixes with dirt particles that make its way into intake, and exaust particles generated by combustion, especially if the piston rings or valve seals are leaking. These particles are what causes sludge build up to begin with - they get baked onto engine internals and clog up oil lines, lower engines lubrication capability - you get the idea.
Now, as far as additives such as seafoam, or motor flush, or anything like that - I don't believe in them a slightest bit. The simlest way to test them is to apply a small amount of such cleaner to a part covered by carbon build up or sludge, and see if it dissolves anything. I bet it wont. It takes some hard scrubbing to take it off, and adding some cleaner, heavily dilluted by oil, doesn't do jack.
I believe in quite a few 'magic in a bottle' products,.. but there are alot out there that don't do jack. Also you can't rely on a product in a bottle/can to solve a problem that is mechanical, and requires an actual 'fix'
They aren't bad for preventative maintenance and peace of mind.. and occaisonal beneficial cleaning/power boost/seal conditioning (changing properties of substance they are being mixed with ) -- IE: Watter wetter and your engine temp as a result of an overall property change.
Some stuff works,.. alot doesn't. Nothing is going to fix a mechanical problem... some products might extend the time required to get it fixed.. (radiator sealants,.. some engine seals (thick gunk).. and other products ) -- But overall it is just a band-aid at best if real work needs be done.
If your engine is alredy suffering from sludge build up, the only way to really somewhat resolve it without physcially taking the engine apart and cleaning it, is to hook it up to a machine that will pump new oil and cleaner through your engine at high pressure. But I dont think it will be very effective either. Plus it can wash away sludge from seals that have long failed, and are not leaking only because of the sludge build up.
Sludge is a different topic than general carbon buildup -- But yes, re: sludge you are correct -- There is absolutely no magic fix for this short of a new block , or dismantel and hand clean (replacement of seals/etc) -- Basically short of a very expensive fix.
Does a highpressure 'oil pump and cleaner' machine exist? Hrmm..
03-17-08, 12:08 AM
#14
You bet it won't? I've used seafoam to clean many things lately. It does dissolve ALOT. Find a dirty valve from a junkyard. Pour 8oz of seafoam in a container. Stick the valve in.. Leave it a day or two. Then give it a little agitation (as much as an engine might do in simulation) - It cleans.. Might not be brand new shiney, but it helps.
By the way, carbon build up doesn't have much to do with motor flush, its usually built in intake manifold and ports, as well as exaust ports. You can clean it by running seafoam through you intake manifold, but again, I don't think it's very effective if at all.
Yeah, I believe Billstein makes one.
http://www.redwoodgeneral.com/flush.htm
See where it says that it will not damage seals? This is true, but if the seals are already damaged and sludge is the only thing that's preventing them from leaking, then washing away that sludge is bad news.
Last edited by Och; 03-17-08 at 12:12 AM.
03-17-08, 01:54 PM
#15
But we need to do the little study. I need to do a time lapse on oil/seafoam and throw in some other chemicals, maybe some synthetic in a jar, some fuel inj. cleaner in one.. etc. At the very least take some pictures at 24hours, 48, 72 etc.. Be interesting to see what chemicals do on a real engine part exposed outside.Well, what other reason you would want to use seafoam or any other product other than to try and remove sludge? Also, synthetic oil keeps sludge from forming to begin with.
By the way, carbon build up doesn't have much to do with motor flush, its usually built in intake manifold and ports, as well as exaust ports. You can clean it by running seafoam through you intake manifold, but again, I don't think it's very effective if at all.
'much' is key.. I agree -- you get some cleaning from these products but it isn't like dismantling and scrubbing yourself. Still makes me feel better to use some fuel inj. cleaner ever once in a while, and seafoam every once in a while -- Ya know?
Yeah, I believe Billstein makes one.
http://www.redwoodgeneral.com/flush.htm
See where it says that it will not damage seals? This is true, but if the seals are already damaged and sludge is the only thing that's preventing them from leaking, then washing away that sludge is bad news.
Yup, and there inlies the danger..
Wish there was an exterior' non invasive way to determine the condition of your seals.. ie: rear main and so on. I have a high mileage motor -- but the previous owner claims to have rebuilt part of it.. New seals in many areas about 30-40k ago. I don't think he had the engine completely apart.. but maybe he did. Hard to prove.