mmccutchin

I'd be interested in Forum readers perspectives on "under the hood" performance of the LS430 versus BMW 750i (or Li). Are they evenly matched in the performance category? What's a good way of handicapping the performance features so as to highlight how the LS is equally matched, even better than the 750 in this category?

Earlier in the year I was seriously looking to purchase an LS430. . .not realizing that most configurations here in California bring the car's total (BEFORE tax/license) to mid/upper $60's.

The LS430 is clearly a beautiful car. . .but it's within $10-15K of the 750i. . .so not having looked at the BMW before I took a test drive. . .it's noticeably smoother, more responsive, and handles better than the LS430 which felt sluggish by contrast (it's also pretty roomy. . .even the "i" model).

My sense is that BMW has moved ahead of Lexus in the "luxury sedan" category. . .perhaps only recently . . .and while Lexus has been spending its time on the lower end IS market (to compete with the 3 Series) . . .and the mid GS market (to compete with the 5 Series). . .the flagship, LS, has not yet been revamped . . .and two local dealers told me the LS460 may not be released until 2007!

Read the "Lexus Story". . .when the LS400 came out it HANDS DOWN beat the S Class and the 7 Series in performance, cabin experience, price, and ongoing maintenance costs. . .I'm not so sure the same could be said today. . .or. . .that Lexus is looking to continue with this strategy, at least as it relates to its flagship, the LS.

Thank you in advance!

GS450h FTL

I think the new LS460 will address the differences between the 430 and 750. IMO the 460 concept has many of the same lines of the 750, I am seriously considering moving from the GX to the LS if it looks even close to the concept LF-S!

not to mention the 600, hybrid!!!

RA40

iTrader: (6)

The active suspenion in the BMW makes that beast handle really well and tolerant of technique issues. The LS430 while no slouch feels a bit softer and if driven hard into a corner will require better technique. BMW turns in better numbers but in real world stop light type stuff, I dunno if it will be night-day difference. Fill up the trunk with stereo stuff, big wheels and the performance aspect drops away quickly for either car.

If I were in this position, I'd likely select the LS and stiffen the suspension with Teins and better rubber on the factory 18's. YMMV

JDMUSCLE

iTrader: (1)

dude.... i manage couple of restaurent parking lots and i drive these cars every day, and no way on earth a 750 is more smoother than the ls430.....plus have you ever driven a 745 or a 750 with a few miles on them....they drive like ****. i will give you a example...a 2004 745 with about 22k has many light in the interior out and the little crappy shifter is broken, just for reference its been driven by a 70yr old so i bet it was not abused. im not basing this on one car, i have seen sooo many of them broken. now lets look at benz....one of the worst luxury car in the market, buy one and experience it for yourself. just look at the recent reviews.....damn korean hyundai is more reliable than a benz!!!! german cars are flashy when new, but fall apart very soon.

Stefwilli

I will say that I know the LS430 is smoother than the the 750i. This is also why it doesnt corner as well as the BMW. If you plan on leasing (don't buy) the BMW and your looking for that performance feel in a sedan than the 750i may suit you better. If your buying the car than you want the LS430 for its reliability, resale value, build qaulity, service and the list goes on. Not to mention that in a straight line the LS430 is just as fast as the 750i, it would be a drivers race, but in cornering the BMW would prevail.

timoc42

Nothing will beat the driving enjoyment of the 750i....
it will be more responsive and faster than then LS430.

Reliability of the BMW has been improving and resale value of the 7 series is one of the best in the market, as good as the LS430.

So, what do you want? A better driving car? or a smoother riding car?
I think both cars already achieve the same status symbol, because during a recent trip, my car was valet parked in front of the hotel lobby, with a 750il. The only 2 cars that was left overnight in front of the lobby. (not a good example, but it was nice to see it put up front)

mmccutchin

Last thread reply was good because it showed that True Cost of Ownership (TCO), as measured by Edmunds. . .is LOWEST for the LS430 versus peer competitors (MBZ, BMW, Jaguar, and Audi).

It's already reasonably established in the marketplace that the LS430 wins in the "cabin experience" (LUXURY) and sticker price categories.

What remains is. . ."under the hood" PERFORMANCE (not to be confused with luxury). For this tread topic, please comment on Performance. . .how do you believe the LS430 compares with the 750i (750Li) and if you believe they're equal, then under what conditions would this be true, etc.

BTW, if you haven't done so yet. . .and are a Lexus fan. . .you need to read "The Lexus Story". . .it came out in 1994 (originally as a give away by dealers to new car owners and now available from Amazon and others). . .beautifully bound and illustrated w/ a real Lexus logo on the front cover. . .the book is pretty clear on this point: in 1990, the LS400 beat the S Class, 7 Series and others. . .HANDS DOWN. . .in all four categories (Peformance, Luxury, Sticker Price, and TCO).

Now flash forward to 2005. . .the LS430 still wins in the categories of Luxury, Sticker Price, and TCO. . .but does it in the Performance category?

My sense is that Lexus has slipped noticeably in Performance. . .probably for one key reason: they're late in the game, in terms of launching a next generation LS, the 460.

(Consider how aggressively BMW just relaunched their 3, 5, and 7 Series in the last several years! And for the 7 series, BMW apparently has a strategy of supporting a generation for about 7 years with a material midpoint revision just around year 4. By comparion, Lexus has had a 5 year generation period for the LS. . .and that 5 years just ended in 2005 with the market expectation that local dealers will not have next generation 460 models until 1H2007. . .by my calculations Lexus is at least one year late, in terms of keeping up with its 15 year history.

Doesn't a "flagship" model deserve better attention and treatment? I'm concerned that Lexus will do to the LS what Acura did to the RL, originally the LEGEND.

Perhaps Lexus has been slower to keeping up with the competition for the LS because over 40% of North American sales are in the SUV category. . .and the ES model brings the total closer to 55-60%. . .the RX and ES330 alone are nearly 50% of annual sales!)

lexusls430

The LS isnt much slower than the 750li. The 0-60 is 5.9 whats the bmws 5.8? The LS i think handles a lot better with the air suspension. Its also smoother. Try drivin an ultra luxury packaged ls430.

RA40

iTrader: (6)

Toyota has taken a conservative line since the early days and has and will likely remain there for the most part. One thing that also differentiates these sedans are the roads they are driven. In Germany, they have the Autobahn. Japan roads while very nice have limits that good bicyclists can attain. As a domestic product, there is little need to develop high HP sedan and sports coupes. It's wasted there IMO.

The demographics of the typical LS, GS buyer/driver is at a point where comfort and reliability is tops. Hi-po variants detract from that base and while it would be appropriate to tailor cars like BMW, Benze may have, these flavors of the month have impact on build times. Toyota is not set-up like Porsche to custom build down to the dash finish and such. They keep it simple and offer a broad based product that has few options; which in their minds suit the majority of their buyers.

They do not have to lead the market in innovation, they have built their empire through careful research and what works for the long term. This allows them to produce a product of exceptional quality and price. Of course they've some dogs in there like any other manufacturer.

As we've been hoping for a long wheel base variant; when it is released, I would hedge that many of us will say "the wait was well worth it."

So IMO, they are not losing ground nor late.

encore888

Just one month to go before the LS 460 is revealed at NAIAS!!! And I don't think we'll have to wait till 2007 to see in showrooms.