749009

1997 LS 400 with about 105,000 miles.
It appears from reading some past posts on this subject that many of you associate a squeaking or groaning noise from the front end to worn front sway bar bushings. I'm not experiencing any clunking or clanging noise, so this would seem to eliminate the control arms as a source of the noise.
I see that some have suggested motor mounts as well, but, attempting to isolate the noise as much as possible it seems to be coming primarily from the driver side, very front end of the car when I bounce the car by pushing down on the front fender, so I think that means it is more likely the sway bar bushings.

My questions:
1) Some posts have suggested that you must replace the entire sway bar, not just the bushings, but, the local Lexus dealer appears to be willing to sell just the bushings at about $38 Cdn each (approx $28 US each). Is there anything I'm missing here, or can I simply replace the front sway bar busings as opposed to the whole sway bar?

2) Many post on this subject indicate that the problem manifests itself when the temperatures drop. The colder it gets outside, the noisier the front end gets. Mine is EXACTLY the opposite. When the car is cold, I can bounce the front end as much as I want and you cannot hear a thing. Drive the car for 15 minutes in 68 degree weather and still dead quiet. Run the car for half an hour in 75 degree plus weather and it squeaks loudly over every bump or dip in the road. Let the car sit for an hour, and the noise diminishes noticeably. In other words, the warmer it gets, the louder the noise.
My mechanic has stood in a pit below the car while I bounced the front end up and down and he thinks we should replace the front sway bar bushings and see what happens. I'd prefer to eliminate as many wrong guesses before spending lots of money on parts that are not contributing to the noise as well as avoiding unneccesary labour charges.
Any thoughts on other possible sources of the noise or ideas to help isolate where the noise is coming from before I replace the front sway bar bushings? I've read about the New Zealand or Australian bushings, but, I'm not prepared to order a whole set of the them and replace all the front end rubber. The car drives fine, I'm just trying to eliminate the annoying suspension squeaking noise when the car gets warm.

3) I mentioned to the mechanic that some here suggested taking out the sway bar bushings and coating them with a lithium based grease, which he indicates he would do, but, said he thought the noise would return quickly and then I'd be paying the labour charges twice as it's just as much effort to lubricate the bushings as it is to replace them. He's suggesting 1 - 1 1/2 hours to replace the front sway bar bushings.
Any comments?

RA40

iTrader: (6)

How do the sway bar bushings look? (You don't need to replace a sway bar unless it is severely damaged)
How do the strut bar bushings look?
A-arm bushings?
There are suspension bolts that are suggested to be checked at periodic intervals...are these bolts torqued to spec?
Is the battery hold down adequately tightened?

At 105K miles, I'd replace the sway bar bushings with the ones recco'd by Lexkost. Depending on your weather conditions, the rubber parts may be at the beginning stages of showing deterioration. If it is within your service budget, it won't hurt to have them checked and replaced. Even at that, some may not show obvious signs yet if they harden up, it may be the difference from no noise to making noise.

749009

I can't tell by looking at the bushings if they are ok or not. They still look intact. The car hasn't sustained any front end damage, so the sway bar should not be damaged at all. I was only asking if the front sway bar bushings can be replaced without having to replace the entire sway bar. A few of the past posts that I had read mentioned that you had to replace the entire sway bar, but, as I said, the local Lexus dealer indicated that they would sell the bushings alone, so I wasn't sure what the correct situation was.

The car appears to handle normally and doesn't exhibit any abnormal noises going over bumps other than the squeaking. The only noise I hear is the louder squeaking noise, primarily from the driver front area, only after the car has been driven for awhile and it's warm outside.

As far as suspension bolts, etc., the car has been regularly serviced at a Lexus dealer, so hopefully they have been checked. Are you suggesting the bolts could be causing the squeaking noise and only after the car warms up?

Given the labour charges, if I'm removing the sway bar bushings to check them, I might as well just replace them at the same time. What I wanted to know, was there anything else that could cause the squeaking noise I described that I should eliminate as a possible noise source first, before replacing the sway bar bushings?
What are the bushings suggested by Lexlost? Are they different from what would be supplied by my local Lexus dealer? I'm up in Canada, so I don't have access to the same parts supply as you do in the US.
Where do you get those bushings and can they be bought anywhere in Canada?

RA40

iTrader: (6)

Here is the link for the sway bar bushings:

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...hreadid=119934

I'd start here and gradually check other rubber components if this does not get it.

749009

thanks very much for the link. So you are suggesting using the Energy Suspension front sway bar bushings and having the mechanic do the bending modification to make them install properly with the factory bolts? Using Energy Suspension part #9-5162 for my '97 model.

I guess I could print off this thread and show it to him to see if he's ok with doing that. I should also see how much it will cost to get those bushings shipped up here from California.

And I assume, by your not suggesting anything else, that virtually everyone here has solved their front end squeaking problem on a 2nd gen LS ('95 -'97, correct?) by replacing those front sway bar bushings?

RA40

iTrader: (6)

While the sway bar can be a contributing factor to some suspension noise, most cases of noise like the clunking are traced to the strut bar bushings. There are different cases and yours my present a new situation.

Some additional thoughts:

Spray a lubricant like WD-40 on the top and lower spring seats.

It may just be simplier to replace with a stock sway bar bushing. The advantage of the aftermarket Energy Suspension is that the compound is firmer and has a grease port. The stock bushing being a bit softer is suitable...depends on your preference and install cost.

Keep us posted on the progress.

749009

Just to be absolutely specific to help in diagnosing the source of the noise, it is purely a squeaking noise;
no clunking whatsoever. Even my mechanic who listened to the noise, said that's a rubber noise as opposed to a metal noise. The only issue is which rubber as there is a lot of it in the front end.

I'm not familair with the term "spring seat". Would you happen to have a link to a picture with an exploded view of the front end with the parts labeled so I could attempt to spray the spring seats with WD-40?
I've sprayed a little WD-40 around the bottom area of where the shock absorber attaches to the suspension and I looked at the springs, but, I'm not certain where spraying WD-40 around the top or bottom of them would make any difference.

I actually used some WD-40 yesterday on what I think are the front sway bar busings. I felt if that eliminated the noise temporarily or changed the sound somewhat, I'd be more certain I'd have the right part that needs replacing. It did seem to lessen the noise somewhat and I'm going to try it again this afternoon and see if I can get a little more WD-40 in there just to be more certain.

The front suspension part I'm lubricating can be accessed on the driver's side with the front wheels turned to the left and coming at the bushing from in front of the left front wheel. I'm doing this without removing the black plastic cover that extends backwards from under the front bumper. It appears to be rubber surrounding a thicker black rounded bar with some blue in it and the inside end of the bushing is pretty well flush with the engine compartment so I am only able to spray the outside end with the WD-40. I've been trying to direct the spray inside the cut in the bushing so more can seep into the inside.

damon

At 105k I would also have someone check the condition of my motor mounts as well. My front-end (which still needs ball joints) got a lot quieter when I replace my motor and tranny mounts.

damon

749009

how much did it cost you to replace motor and tranny mounts?

Remember, my front end isn't noisy now when the squeaking isn't present. When I take the car out of the garage and for the first 20 minutes or so of driving, it's absolutely quiet. The last week here has been very hot during the day and that appears to have made the problem appear as I don't recall hearing it earlier.
I've squirted WD-40 into what I think was the front sway bar bushings and I believe it has diminished the noise somewhat, when it finally does appear. As I've said earlier, I believe the noise is coming from the very front of the car, not the windshield area. I'm judging that by simply bouncing the front fenders up and down when the noise finally does appear and listening for where the noise seems to be coming from.
It makes no difference at all to the noise whether the car is running or not.

I just checked with the Lexus dealer here and was surprised to find that they are willing to change the bushings for less than half an hour's labour as opposed to the mechanic I had check it who suggested an hour to hour and a half's labour.

So, at that price, I think it's reasonable to let them change the bushings, but I'd just like to see a pic of exactly where these bushings are just to verify that the bushings I've been lubricating are indeed the front sway bar bushings.

RA40

iTrader: (6)

Here is a link that will give you an idea about the bushing.
http://www.addco.net/what.shtml

My suggestion at this point would be to have the car diagnosed at the dealership.

749009

from the link you provided, the part I've been lubricating does appear similar to their diagram, however, without an actual picture or diagram of the exact front end of my '97 LS, I can't be positive. I'll continue to test it myself as I think I've definitely reduced the amount of squeaking. I can then go to the Lexus dealer, point to the bushing I've been lubricating and hopefully confirm that is the sway bar bushing.

My hesitation in simply taking it to the dealer and asking them to replace the part that is squeaking is that they replace one part that they claim "looks" worn. Squeaking continues. They replace another part that "looks" worn. Squeaking continues. They finally get the correct part, but, by that time, I have a huge bill, which they claim is justified because the other non squeaking parts, "looked" worn, even though they functioned normally. I've been through the exact situation described above with a late model Millenia S and the process is too open for abuse by mechanics who are unable or unwilling to simply fix the problem they are being asked to fix. I realize that my efforts at diagnosing the problem first is not a guarantee, but, it reduces the chances of replacing parts with normal wear and tear that would have performed properly for a much longer time.

damon

Motor Mounts
My labor to replace the motor and tranny mounts was $175.00.
Parts were about $245.00

My 94 had already had it's struts replaced , but still made an unsetlling creeking & groaning noise when I went over speed bumps. This disappeared immediately after the new mounts were installed. Engine noise at idle was also much less noticeable. Even though I still need to replace the lower ball joints the ride is excellent and quiet.

damon

749009

thanks Damon, for the repair prices. It gives me an idea of what I'd be looking at up here to do the same replacement.

Interestingly, since my last major wd-40 intervention on the front bushing, I haven't heard a sound from the front end. So, if (when) the sound reappears, my first step would be to take it to the Lexus dealer, point to the bushings I've been lubricating, confirm that they are the sway bar bushings, and have them replace them.

bdruff

Here is another thread with very similar issues and no definite resolution.

Noise is a squeak or a creak when the wheel is turned at slow speeds. Creaking when jacking up and suspension is releasing.

No popping, thuds, or thunks over bumps.

Just the creaking door sound at slow speeds. Lubricated all the bushings and sound is gone, although I'm sure very temporarily.