Lexus ES and LS - Differences
02-16-04, 07:12 PM
#1
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Lexus ES and LS - Differences
Okay don't go crazy now - but I've been reading a lot about how since the IS came about, the ES has been getting better and better.. How closely does the ES compare in road noise, wind noise and softness over bumps.. The interior in the ES looks amazing.. I know that the LS has a ton more power and is much classier to look at - but what are the main differences besides drive-train?
Thanks...
Thanks...
02-16-04, 08:20 PM
#2
Mostly the badges...slap an LS badge on the ES and it sells for $25-30K more. 
Aside from it being FWD and V6, I haven't compared the dimensions and such. It seems to have grown from the last generation.
The ES has a nice niche. Most the others it is supposed to be classed with are sportier driving machines. Only one I think of is the Toyota Avalon. I dunno, would be curious what others think.
Aside from it being FWD and V6, I haven't compared the dimensions and such. It seems to have grown from the last generation.The ES has a nice niche. Most the others it is supposed to be classed with are sportier driving machines. Only one I think of is the Toyota Avalon. I dunno, would be curious what others think.
02-16-04, 08:54 PM
#3
Well, I see we're off to another thread that will probably span 2 or 3 pages. 
There are *many* differences between the two and you can read up on it yourself by looking through an ES and LS sales brochure for the size differences and gadget differences. Comparing the two doesn't make sense because they are two different cars. But I will share my observations which you won't find in the sales brochure. Shortly after I bought my '03 LS, I had to leave my LS with the dealer for 3 days to fix a gouge in the paint they created. They gave me an '03 ES to drive for those 3 days and I absolutely could not wait to get my LS back. The most notable differences, besides the dimensions, were ride, quietness, engine, refinement. The ES, while a smooth rider compared to those in it's class, is no comparison to the LS. The LS is much smoother and quieter. The transmission is equally smooth shifting in both but the V-6 in the ES sucks. The v-6 is relatively quiet and smooth but really lacks power across the RPM range. Honda builds a killer V-6 that is head and shoulders above any V-6 Toyota currently puts out. Of course comparing the V-6 to the V-8 isn't fair. The Toyota V-8 is world class and probably there is nothing out there that can match it in an all around comparison. The other differences I noticed were more having to do with refinement - which the ES isn't - compared to the LS. For example, things that really stood out to me were things like how noisy the power door locks were and how clunky and noisy the gear shift was. Things are refined and muted in the LS and moving the gear shifter in the LS is silky smooth. These are things that you would normally not notice unless you drove an LS day to day and then stepped into an ES.
There are *many* differences between the two and you can read up on it yourself by looking through an ES and LS sales brochure for the size differences and gadget differences. Comparing the two doesn't make sense because they are two different cars. But I will share my observations which you won't find in the sales brochure. Shortly after I bought my '03 LS, I had to leave my LS with the dealer for 3 days to fix a gouge in the paint they created. They gave me an '03 ES to drive for those 3 days and I absolutely could not wait to get my LS back. The most notable differences, besides the dimensions, were ride, quietness, engine, refinement. The ES, while a smooth rider compared to those in it's class, is no comparison to the LS. The LS is much smoother and quieter. The transmission is equally smooth shifting in both but the V-6 in the ES sucks. The v-6 is relatively quiet and smooth but really lacks power across the RPM range. Honda builds a killer V-6 that is head and shoulders above any V-6 Toyota currently puts out. Of course comparing the V-6 to the V-8 isn't fair. The Toyota V-8 is world class and probably there is nothing out there that can match it in an all around comparison. The other differences I noticed were more having to do with refinement - which the ES isn't - compared to the LS. For example, things that really stood out to me were things like how noisy the power door locks were and how clunky and noisy the gear shift was. Things are refined and muted in the LS and moving the gear shifter in the LS is silky smooth. These are things that you would normally not notice unless you drove an LS day to day and then stepped into an ES.
Last edited by LS430inTX; 02-16-04 at 08:58 PM.
02-16-04, 08:56 PM
#4
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Thank you. I wasn't too interested in a size comparison but you mentioned exactly what was important to me. I wanted to know how refined the ES was.. How quiet it was - how smooth it was...
Thanks... More opinions are welcome...
Thanks... More opinions are welcome...
02-16-04, 11:42 PM
#5
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LS vs. ES
Well I'll put in my $.02...
I'm currently driving a loaner '03 ES300--I've had it for about a week now. (I'm having the dealer fix bunch of stuff on my '93 LS). But even when comparing a 1993 LS vs. 2003 ES:
-Both cars are very quiet
-ES's interior is gorgeous. I love the cherrywood touches inside, and the soft, supple leather used on seats and the doors (although I'm certain a '03 LS would have similar materials)
-Gas mileage is amazing--I could easily average high 20's to low 30's if I drive like I had some sense in me. (and on regular unleaded too).
-between the 1993 LS and 2003 ES, I don't notice a significant difference in the interior space.
-ES handles better than LS--it's more agile, lighter feeling (though a far cry from my Bimmer
)
But I'm eager to get my LS back for the following reasons:
-LS rides significantly better. As a matter of fact, I'm quite surprised at how stiff they've tuned the suspension on the ES. In driving the same roads and freeways to work, ES transmits a lot of road irregularities to the interior that the LS filters out.
-Differences between the V6 and the V8 manifest themselves in many different ways--in the engine sound, in the torque (and the subsequent downshifting in the ES whereas LS would have accelerated in the same gear), rpm, etc.
-LS's tranny is "better"--I say that in quotes because it's not a technically based comment (ES has 5 speed tranny after all), but the ES's transmission is waaaaay to hesitant to downshift when you need the power (I'd say it's almost a hazard)! And in the model I'm driving, there is no power "mode" to select (as I do in the old LS).
The above 3 factors are pretty huge in my book; so if I had a choice I'd take an older LS over newer ES anyday for the same money. (of course, other people's opinion will differ based on what their preferences are, but I tried to be pretty factual and unbiased in my observations).
I'm currently driving a loaner '03 ES300--I've had it for about a week now. (I'm having the dealer fix bunch of stuff on my '93 LS). But even when comparing a 1993 LS vs. 2003 ES:
-Both cars are very quiet
-ES's interior is gorgeous. I love the cherrywood touches inside, and the soft, supple leather used on seats and the doors (although I'm certain a '03 LS would have similar materials)
-Gas mileage is amazing--I could easily average high 20's to low 30's if I drive like I had some sense in me. (and on regular unleaded too).
-between the 1993 LS and 2003 ES, I don't notice a significant difference in the interior space.
-ES handles better than LS--it's more agile, lighter feeling (though a far cry from my Bimmer
)But I'm eager to get my LS back for the following reasons:
-LS rides significantly better. As a matter of fact, I'm quite surprised at how stiff they've tuned the suspension on the ES. In driving the same roads and freeways to work, ES transmits a lot of road irregularities to the interior that the LS filters out.
-Differences between the V6 and the V8 manifest themselves in many different ways--in the engine sound, in the torque (and the subsequent downshifting in the ES whereas LS would have accelerated in the same gear), rpm, etc.
-LS's tranny is "better"--I say that in quotes because it's not a technically based comment (ES has 5 speed tranny after all), but the ES's transmission is waaaaay to hesitant to downshift when you need the power (I'd say it's almost a hazard)! And in the model I'm driving, there is no power "mode" to select (as I do in the old LS).
The above 3 factors are pretty huge in my book; so if I had a choice I'd take an older LS over newer ES anyday for the same money. (of course, other people's opinion will differ based on what their preferences are, but I tried to be pretty factual and unbiased in my observations).
03-09-04, 06:13 PM
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They really are two completely different cars, on different platforms, with different parts -- not the same thing at all. The ES is built off the Camry platform, the LS is not. And I agree with the statement that a two or three year old LS is better than a new ES. The ES is a mid-priced near luxury car, and feels it.
My dealer gives them out as loaners, so I've driven them a few times, and was not impressed. The fake spongy leather on the doors was a real turnoff for me, as was the overall noise level. The wood was nice, though, and the ergonomics were typical Toyota -- very good. It felt like a much cheaper car. Which, of course, it is.
Sean
My dealer gives them out as loaners, so I've driven them a few times, and was not impressed. The fake spongy leather on the doors was a real turnoff for me, as was the overall noise level. The wood was nice, though, and the ergonomics were typical Toyota -- very good. It felt like a much cheaper car. Which, of course, it is.
Sean
03-09-04, 07:56 PM
#7
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Thanks for the info you guys.. I appreciate it.. I do notice that the ES has an amazingly beautiful interior. Very elegant.. But I hear quite often about how terrible that down-shifting is on the ES. Lexus needs to fix that right away..
I'm surprised to hear how well a '93 LS still handles bumps compared to a new ES.. I'm guessing that a newer LS filters out road and wind noise better than a '93, though.. The new LS does have an unbelievable interior - the leather is the most supple I've ever felt... Moreso than the new ES...
I'm surprised to hear how well a '93 LS still handles bumps compared to a new ES.. I'm guessing that a newer LS filters out road and wind noise better than a '93, though.. The new LS does have an unbelievable interior - the leather is the most supple I've ever felt... Moreso than the new ES...
Last edited by Sal Collaziano; 03-09-04 at 07:57 PM.
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03-09-04, 09:50 PM
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The ES is a front wheel drive while the LS is a rear wheel drive (rwd).The ES is targetted at the near-luxury car segment with specific focus on big car roominess requirements of the American market. It is even "seen" as one notch lower than the GS which is also rear wheel drive but is smaller.
RWD is deemed to be a separator between performance oriented cars and regular fwd cars because itisolates work between front (steer) and rear( drive) wheels which is the ideal setup for optimal summer driving, also because they are more expensive to make.
RWD is deemed to be a separator between performance oriented cars and regular fwd cars because itisolates work between front (steer) and rear( drive) wheels which is the ideal setup for optimal summer driving, also because they are more expensive to make.
03-16-04, 11:51 AM
#9
Lexus Champion
Well I've never driven an LS430, and have limited experience in the LS400... but I do hav a 99 GS400 and have driven 02 and 03 ES300 loaner cars on a few occasions for sometimes up to 2-3 days.
I've got to say that inside and out the ES300/330 is downright gorgeous. Especially on the inside... it makes me jelouse. My GS4's interior is definitely nowhere near that clean/luxurious looking on the inside.
Where I see the biggest difference is in the way the two cars drive. When I get in my GS4... everything just feels extremely significant. Like whenever I put my hand on something or move something... the guy who designed it and the guy who built it were not only obsessed with the way it looked, but the way it sounded, the way it felt, and how well it would hold up to a rediculous amount of abuse. In other words... they were into more than just perceived quality, but also the actually quality underlying every last part in my car.
With the ES... while it's still obvious that precision and durability were at the forefronts of their minds... the overall 'feel' you get when interacting with the car is that there were things not done in the name of cost. And rightfully so since the car starts out at around 30k as opposed to the GS4 at 48k and the LS4 at 55k. So I'm not complaining at all... just saying its definitely an obvious difference.
The difference make themselves further known once you start driving. I personally strongly dislike the ES' transmission. I'm not sure about the 92-01 because I never drove one... but the 02s and 03s I've driven, it feels like the transmission is slipping. I realize this is Lexus' way of making it feel soft when it shifts... but it really just seems like it takes abnormally long for it to shift and is doing a sloppy job. The RX feels the exact same way to me. Obviouslly the difference in power from the motors is night and day... with the Lexus V8 you can pretty much accelerate briskly with the transmission shifting all the while under 2,000 RPM... in order to get an ES to do this you'll probably have people behind you honking. There just isn't nearly the 'torque' feel of the V8 where it feels like you're a pilot behind a rocket-powered sled rather than waiting for your semi-anemic engine to spool up and get you moving.
And lastly we get into the feel of the car\sound when driving. I'm aware that the GS is not nearly as quiet as the LS. In my experience with both cars, the ES had a little less wind noise (then again my car was 4 years older with 45,000 more miles). My GS4 has a lot less engine noise... the ES is almost 'buzzy'... especially at full throttle where it seems to try and sound like a race car which is almost laughable. However it has a lot more braking noise... the brakes in my GS4 are surprisingly audible in a low dull roaring sort of a way... almost sounds like a monster truck coming to a stop way off in the distance. Plus the braking feel in my GS4 is terrible. Sure it'll out stop most Porsches much less an ES... but it just feels terrible. I really liked the braking feel in the ES. In terms of road noise I think the GS4 is quieter, but not like a night and day difference or anything. The biggest difference in driving is the overall 'solidity' of the car. While the ES' chassis feels good and tight, and I can't specifically find any flaws in its execution... there's just a completely different feel when you hit a bump.
In the ES, when you hit a bump, you feel like you're along for the ride and you know for a fact that bump was there. It still don't ruffle your feathers or shake and rattle, but you know it was there for sure. With the GS4.. you still know the bump was there... but you are less inclined to care about it. Because it feels like the GS4 just sort of hits it and acts like nothing ever happened. It feels a lot more 'solidified' about it.
The GS4 just feels a whole lot more 'significant' when you're driving it because the steering is heavier and more damped, the engine and transmission has a lot more prowess, and the chassis and overall car seems to just 'deal' with bumps in a more 'I'm big and I'm bad" sort of a way than the ES' more timid "OK well I may be a little guy with not much behind me, but with the right suspension tweaks, you shouldn't technically feel the bump ahead all that much".
Of course it may also help that I have front and rear lower chassis braces, front and rear strut tower braces, and the 6-piece rear suspension link kit.
Does that make sense?
I've got to say that inside and out the ES300/330 is downright gorgeous. Especially on the inside... it makes me jelouse. My GS4's interior is definitely nowhere near that clean/luxurious looking on the inside.
Where I see the biggest difference is in the way the two cars drive. When I get in my GS4... everything just feels extremely significant. Like whenever I put my hand on something or move something... the guy who designed it and the guy who built it were not only obsessed with the way it looked, but the way it sounded, the way it felt, and how well it would hold up to a rediculous amount of abuse. In other words... they were into more than just perceived quality, but also the actually quality underlying every last part in my car.
With the ES... while it's still obvious that precision and durability were at the forefronts of their minds... the overall 'feel' you get when interacting with the car is that there were things not done in the name of cost. And rightfully so since the car starts out at around 30k as opposed to the GS4 at 48k and the LS4 at 55k. So I'm not complaining at all... just saying its definitely an obvious difference.
The difference make themselves further known once you start driving. I personally strongly dislike the ES' transmission. I'm not sure about the 92-01 because I never drove one... but the 02s and 03s I've driven, it feels like the transmission is slipping. I realize this is Lexus' way of making it feel soft when it shifts... but it really just seems like it takes abnormally long for it to shift and is doing a sloppy job. The RX feels the exact same way to me. Obviouslly the difference in power from the motors is night and day... with the Lexus V8 you can pretty much accelerate briskly with the transmission shifting all the while under 2,000 RPM... in order to get an ES to do this you'll probably have people behind you honking. There just isn't nearly the 'torque' feel of the V8 where it feels like you're a pilot behind a rocket-powered sled rather than waiting for your semi-anemic engine to spool up and get you moving.
And lastly we get into the feel of the car\sound when driving. I'm aware that the GS is not nearly as quiet as the LS. In my experience with both cars, the ES had a little less wind noise (then again my car was 4 years older with 45,000 more miles). My GS4 has a lot less engine noise... the ES is almost 'buzzy'... especially at full throttle where it seems to try and sound like a race car which is almost laughable. However it has a lot more braking noise... the brakes in my GS4 are surprisingly audible in a low dull roaring sort of a way... almost sounds like a monster truck coming to a stop way off in the distance. Plus the braking feel in my GS4 is terrible. Sure it'll out stop most Porsches much less an ES... but it just feels terrible. I really liked the braking feel in the ES. In terms of road noise I think the GS4 is quieter, but not like a night and day difference or anything. The biggest difference in driving is the overall 'solidity' of the car. While the ES' chassis feels good and tight, and I can't specifically find any flaws in its execution... there's just a completely different feel when you hit a bump.
In the ES, when you hit a bump, you feel like you're along for the ride and you know for a fact that bump was there. It still don't ruffle your feathers or shake and rattle, but you know it was there for sure. With the GS4.. you still know the bump was there... but you are less inclined to care about it. Because it feels like the GS4 just sort of hits it and acts like nothing ever happened. It feels a lot more 'solidified' about it.
The GS4 just feels a whole lot more 'significant' when you're driving it because the steering is heavier and more damped, the engine and transmission has a lot more prowess, and the chassis and overall car seems to just 'deal' with bumps in a more 'I'm big and I'm bad" sort of a way than the ES' more timid "OK well I may be a little guy with not much behind me, but with the right suspension tweaks, you shouldn't technically feel the bump ahead all that much".
Of course it may also help that I have front and rear lower chassis braces, front and rear strut tower braces, and the 6-piece rear suspension link kit.
Does that make sense?
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