05RollaXRS

Murcielago? What year is it?? Like 2008?? Aventador is the latest and greatest Lamborghini has ever built. Aston Martin DBS or Vantage?? Did anyone bother to tell Aston Martins are grand touring cars and they don't compete with a far more track-oriented Lexus LFA???

All of that has been done in the past. You clearly have no idea how LFA has taken part in many comparisons and proven everything it could and beyond.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/5903487-post15.html







And no LFA is not an ugly car.

Ice350

iTrader: (1)

Why don't you tell us what needs to be done for the LFA to reach supercar status.

OK, you told us you think it's ugly. I don'y like the looks of the Aventador but I still think it's attractive. It looks like a supercar to me. So does the LFA. While not THE sexiest, it is certainly sexy.

Speed...is it not fast enough for you? If 200+ mph doesn't rock your ship then it's on dry land.

Quickness....is it not quick enough. 0-60 in 3.7 is not the quickest out there but anything less than 4.0 will plant your back into the seat.

Sound...can't touch it. It's right there with the best of the best.

Here's where the LFA surpasses most others. It is still a luxury car. It's relatively comfy, can be driven daily and should be more reliable than the others.

1JZPWRD

iTrader: (59)

These are two amzing machines, but the LFA is just plain sick looking..

About time!

germeezy1

The LFA is compelling to some, but I don't believe it to be as compelling as the Aventador. Words like clinical, unassuming, practical should not enter a discussion when conversing about supercars. The other fact that should be mentioned is that the Aventador is actually on a different performance level in a straight line its nothing short of breathtaking. I want to like the LFA, but much of what it offers can be had in the R8 V10 or MB SLS, cars that are just not really comparable with the " Daddy " of supercars. I am just not sure Lexus should focus on competing directly with Lamborghini when on a flagship level they have a difficult time even competing with Jaguar, Audi and MB. I believe the LFA would have been a far larger halo for the brand as competition for the 458 Italia and MP4-12C and R8 V10 than trying to justify its existence next to the upper echelon of supercars like the Aventador and 599.

05RollaXRS

If you read the review, it says the straight line performance is the only part where Aventador is better than the LFA. Even the 612 HP 599 GTB with HGTE track package was beaten by the LFA in all categories and LFA won the comparison overall.

LFA according to the review has "the best engine this side of Paul Roche's BMW Maclaren F1 engine" and that LFA was leaving the Aventador behind easily on windy, mountain roads.

Also, the review talks about how LFA has much better balance and handles much better compared to the understeering behavior of the Aventador. The steering was more precise, direct and gave far more feedback in the LFA than it did in the Aventador. The braking according to the review is also better in the LFA.

All while LFA is wearing mediocre non high-grip tires compared to racing compound PIrelli Corsa competition tires on the Aventador.

Also, LFA is 550 pounds lighter than the Aventador in terms of test weight, which is also a huge difference as they say LFA is the more "rewarding, exciting and thrilling car to drive".

In short, straight line is not everything. LFA might be slower in a straight line than the Aventador (as is everything else today except Veyron), but it outshines the Aventador in many other ways.

crazybuggy

both rides are bada$$! wish i could get a few of each!

natnut

It's this sort of thinking that leads to stagnation and lack of progress. It's great that Lexus should try to shake up the old established order and break the stranglehold that a same few brands have on the supercar segment.

The fact that Lexus on their FIRST attempt has successfully beaten the incumbents(Ferrari and Lamborghini) at their own game is reminescent of the time when the first LS400 came out and made MB and BMW pee their pants in fear.

What Lexus has learnt in developing the LFA(and making Ferrari/Lambo its whipping boys in the process) will ultimately trickle down to the lower Lexus models and we, as future Lexus owners, will be the chief beneficiaries.

germeezy1

I hope Lexus does not mind spending an exorbitant amout of money to try to sell LFA's while Ferrari and Lamborghini enjoy large wait lists for its car. Neither Ferrari or Lamborghini has been made whipping boys by the LFA, I would ask you to reference the Reventon program for an example of how a limited production car can and was sold out in a far shorter period of time.

I understand that this is a Lexus forum, but honestly I think that many of the things that made an RX400h compelling to me are not things that enter into the thoughts of many super car buyers. Lamborghini and Ferrari, they get it and they are the best at the branding and selling of luxury cars so lets not act as if the LFA means Lexus has already arrived. Personally I expected more from Toyota and Lexus with their extended development period. And building a slightly worse care in many ways and a slight better car in others and asking for the same outlay as Ferrari and Lamborghini results in what we see today.

So many of you are looking at the numbers as a justification as if the spread sheet of the LFA's performance alone justifies its pricing. To me, aside from holding Lexus in high regard the Lexus is the safe choice. The Aventador even as they agree appeals on a level far above just the rational, and that for me is well worth its slight pricing difference in that rarified air.

robloc93

^You realize this is a "first" attempt right?........The fact that Lexus pulled off such an amazing vehicle in it's first attempt should be enough to commend TOMOCO. It's easy to find flaws with a company that is labeled as being bland. I have drooled over Lamborghini's my whole life but would gladly take an LFA over it because of the all around balance of comfort and performance( even if it's not the fastest). It's easy to throw stones at Lexus but give credit where it's due, and this reminds me of clueless Youtube comments that don't know why it's so expensive. Let's see Lamborghini build a luxurious sedan like the LS.

05RollaXRS

Well, then you don't know that the Reventon was really a dressed up Murcielago. It used the same engine and the same underpinings etc. but, cost over $1 million dollars. There were only 20 of them produced so what is the point of comparing it with a bespoke car being produced for a total of 500 that shares nothing with anything else??

The fact that LFA has everything purpose built for it and it shares nothing anything else (as opposed to the Ferraris and Lambos that share components with other models as well as their predecessors), it totally makes sense why LFA took 9 years especially if they scrapped everything when they first did the LFA in aluminum and then started all over again half way through. While LFA's engine is a purpose built engine for the LFA, the Aventador's engine is essentially a reworked and rebuilt version of the old Murcielago engine that has been their work horse since the early 2000s when it used to sport a 6.2 liter displacement in the 580 HP Murcielago.

The fact that LFA is considered a benchmark in handling, balance, steering precision , luxury, driving excitement etc. for a Lamborghini is nothing short of astonishing and its engine consistently beating Lamborghinis and Ferraris in "best engine of the year" (Car magazine called it "best engine since Paul Roche's Maclaren F1") especially considering Lexus has not built a supercar since the 1960s. All while considering LFA is not wearing racing tires while the Lamborghini is.

The fact, that LFA is 550 pounds lighter than Aventador inspite of both cars using Carbon fiber in excess of 70% of their construction is another spectacular achievement for the LFA.

It is a matter of brand pedigree and prestige and ofcourse Lexus does not have that. True many people buy exotic cars while putting these as the most important things, but that is a brand image and prestige issue (as shallow as it sounds) and has nothing to do with substance or merit of the product.

jpvarghese

iTrader: (1)

Germeezy, I hope you don't feel like we are ganging up on you, but there are many things in your post that just doesn't make any sense. You say Ferrari and Lamborghini "get's it" and I am very confused what you mean by that. If you mean that Ferrari and Lamborghini are able to create cars with waiting lists with high prices, there is nothing surprising about that. Ferrari and Lamborghini are well established players in the game and buyers know what to expect. The brands already have an identity, a culture, and a story that only time dictates and perfects. The Lexus is a newcomer, and as anyone should expect in life, it takes time for the new guy to fit in.

If however, you mean to say that Lexus doesn't know how to build a supercar, respectively, I think you are mistaken. Take whatever reservations of the brand you have about Lexus and shove it to the side. Take a good look at the car, study it, and figure out what was going behind the minds of the engineers that built it. Can you seriously say that they don't know what they are doing or there is nothing special about the car?

Lexus took an unconventional approach not only as a Lexus, but as a supercar builder. While manufacturers are after each others' throats for performance figures or performance firsts, very few brands in my opinion focused on what the driver should experience and could extract. I understand the car can seem behind the times in the performance department, but nearly everyone who has driven it is absolutely impressed by it. Isn't that what driving a supercar is all about, though? It isn't always about the end goal, but the journey.

07grIS350

In this economy, especially in North America, the waiting lists are probably 'dealer inventories'. Does anyone has the rough numbers of how many Aventadors are in actual customer's hands?
Also, I believe the LFA is how Lexus/Toyota learned to make its future products more exciting, So IMO, the correct way to look at this big picture is to start with the LFA then other new products i.e. 2013 GS, FRS, LF whatever ...

gengar

Lexus obviously doesn't, and more pointedly, any car enthusiast should be ecstatic that Lexus doesn't.

Getting stuck on brand name and image is probably the most absurd and inane way to go approach life. Not that I'm complaining, as it has allowed me - perhaps at the cost of others' misguided sensibilities - to enjoy what is leaps and bounds the better driver's car.

germeezy1

For those of you who may not know Lexus history, the LS400 was a car that was so good that Mercedes actually moved forward its S class launch for to make last minute changes. I never said that the LFA was bad, just that in relation to other supercars its appeal on a sensible level is not relating to the cars selling in a way that cars like the Aventador sold for. The Aventador mention shows that we are not simply talking about price alone, but about appeal and the sales of the LFA show that perhaps Lexus is not as closely aligned with its customers as Lamborghini and Ferarri are. As has been said its a first effort, but my point is that Lexus and the LFA still has not arrived in the rarified air of companies like Ferrari and Lamborghini that almost can ask what they want for their supercars.

I just wanted to bring a counter point, that was not simply praising the LFA. I know this is a Lexus forum so it is to be expected but to act as if the Aventador is not appealing is a crucial mistake in my opinion. The LFA moved the bar and the goal post for Lexus but certainly not for supercars in a way that the LS did for large luxury sedans. No one is going back to the drawing board and making late changes to its supercars because of the LFA, but it could be argued some including Ferrari are closely watching Mclaren and Lamborghini. Nothing is wrong with preferring supercars made by heritage exotic car makers, and those with racing provenance and heritage and history in spades. But aside from that for many and even as the article said the Aventador is a more appealing car.


Also please keep in mind, my post is more directly related to appeal and to the marketing and sales of the LFA in relation to its peers than the actual car. Lexus already said and understands that they do not understand the super car buyer and Mr. Toyoda himself said that sweeping changes were happening at Lexus and they did not understand even the luxury customer as they thought they did. I just hope that Lexus moving forward takes this awareness into account and allows the LFA to sell on its merits unecumbered by bad marketing and a lack of understanding about supercar customers.

gengar

If your measurement of success for a Lexus supercar is that it must be what the LS was to luxury sedans, then it certainly appears your only intention is to reach for whatever straws you need to criticize the LFA. The LS was something never previously achieved in the automotive industry and very likely may never be achieved again. Imagine if that was the benchmark for any new Lexus car; every one would then be a failure - which demonstrates the absurdity of such a measure.

I'm also not entirely sure how you inferred from the CAR comparo that the Aventador was more appealing. They clearly thought the LFA was far more exciting and a better driver's car, and only that the Aventador had more power and over-the-top styling that gathered more attention. I think you also focus too much on your imagined "sensibility" of the LFA. Drive one and you will find it anything but sensible; in fact, that was part of the point of the CAR review, that despite a reputation for being a "clinical" or "undercover" supercar, the LFA is more engaging than the Aventador. (I wonder from where that reputation comes - especially given that CAR previously bashed the LFA for being un-Lexus-like). The sensibilities of the LFA - in the form of a lavish interior, a spacious and comfortable cabin, and a car that is relatively easy to drive, among any other features - is an added bonus and only speaks for the incredible engineering of the vehicle.

The beauty of the LFA is that it was a car built to demonstrate what can be accomplished when a company decides to act. It shows what can be achieved when a car company ignores numbers like financials, horsepower and other such specs, or irrelevant lap times, and instead concentrates on driving enthusiasm. It's a car designed from the ground up primarily by engineers with the input of elite race drivers (consider it was a vehicle reverse-homologated during development). Any car enthusiast should be happy about the LFA and happy that at least one company is willing to act - marketing and sales be damned.